Maybe if you voiced your opinion rather than just a link, your threads would attract more comments

Spatchcock wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 1:20pm:



Sure.  We could.  But it doesn't seem to be happening at the moment

Spatchcock wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 1:33pm:



What Aussies say, what they mean and what they actually do ----- differ

There's an entire culture (and it's not restricted to the younger generations) which attempts to model itself on younger generation Americans.  And nowhere is this seen more starkly than on large US forums (although they're international) like the chans (predominantly 4chan and 8chan) where Aussies clearly attempt to ape, in the main, Americans

As to not wanting to become involved in USrael wars for profit, that's not anti-war or anti-American (although there's very much an anti jew, anti Zionist sentiment) it's a case of Aussies regarding war as something not to be entered into lightly and certainly not for the gratification of USrael slugs

anti-government, anti-military sentiments are directly as result of the wars for profit into which Aussie troops have been thrown by a succession of traitor politicians and prime ministers who of course, are selected for their willingness to bend over for USrael

If an invasion of Australia occurred and when help from UK and US fails to eventuate, then if the Oz govt. issues Aussies with weapons, I think we'd find Aussies rushing to the invasion site intent on repelling the invaders

Great post


Quote:
.

Americans still seem kewl to many Aussies, many well into middle age.  Reddit Australia for example -- sickening example of Aussies desperately trying for American patterns of speech and for a faux, American-style cynicism.  I was chucked out of Reddit Australia half a dozen times for pointing out how stupid Aussies sound when they try to impress Americans.  They got offended. They didn't realise how obvious and try-hard they are.  It's depressing, the still-large cultural cringe in Oz


The try-hard antics are equally see-through for Aussies who browse & post the Aussie threads in 4chan, where by accident, Aussies have become a meme.  They invariably have Oz specific pics as their OP -- usually some rough-nut, brown-baked Aussie stereotype in a cork-wreathed hat with the obligatory kangaroo to the side

what created the Aussie meme is Aussies' overuse of fc*k and c*nt.  For some reason, it endears Aussie posters to Americans in particular and they (Americans) have added Aussie vocabulary to their own as a badge of admiration and friendship for supposedly 'irreverent' 'tough' 'no chit' Aussies down here underneath the real-world

Aussie red-necks don't differ much from world-wide red-necks insofar as partays involve chunder-inducing amounts of grog and the gang-rape or gang-bashings.  As to more genteel partying, Aussies'Yanks consume grog, drugs and exhibit idiotic behaviours generally


So Americans fantasise about Straya being filled with foul mouthed but funny guys and women who're up for it, and Aussies fantasise about the America they see on Netflix, tv, videos.  They both sling off at brown people and bemoan immigration.  Online, they fester with misogyny and seem unable to differentiate between natural breasts and silicone bags.  And they're being prepped to hate older generations

Spatchcock wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 2:21pm:



You could be right

Test it by offering Aussies twelve months in the US

Spatchcock wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 2:30pm:



or

they say, Disneyland, Las Vegas, California, movies stars, glamour, massive servings of American style foods, road trips, scenery, proximity to Canada …. and here we are, stuck on this hot rock surrounded by sea and potential invaders

Aussies are lonely

they always have been

Spatchcock wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 2:44pm:



Nothing unusual about our different observations

It wasn't until Gulf War and 9/11, from memory (which roughly coincided with widespread internet useage in Oz) that the US began its slide into notoriety.  Prior to that, the US was admired, envied and a place of fantasy, dreams & hope for most.  You still find those attitudes amongst many non-Westerners who still consider the US to be the place where dreams can become true

most Aussies' beliefs about the US (and we could include many Europeans) were based in US movies and tv.  The Brady Bunch was a massive hit with kids who believed most/all Americans lived the Brady lifestyle -- big modern house, perfect mom and pop, happy happy, always sunny, prosperous.  The Brits in particular were/are particularly taken with Home and Away and similar shows and they must have been responsible for tens of thousands of Brits desperately trying to find that lifestyle by emmigrating to Oz .. beach at the end of the street, barbques and dozen of friends every night, buckets of fresh fruit falling off trees, always sunny, etc.)

America dominated tv and films and from those we believed America to be a bastion of justice and integrity.  After the gloss peeled off the US, the world has never recovered.  'Who do we look up to now?'. Millions of dreams died.  It was the same for Americans

As with most painful break-ups, the world set about ripping apart the United States' reputation.  Love had turned to hate.  Alternative news sites, which had previously only been available in books and magazines such as New Dawn, sprang up online.  People's eyes had opened and the US was exposed and excoriated. We know now about US lies, it's bullying, its pot-holed roads, crumbling infrastructure, poverty, etc. We learned how our national leaders plotted with USrael to engineer wars for profit and to poison our bodies and minds

The Great Satan.  But the love for the US dies hard.  And we still harbour many of those old fantasies and beliefs.  I wouldn't like to guess how many Aussies still believe that if anyone lays a finger on Australia, Uncle Sam and the cavalry will fly, sail and swim to our rescue

Australia still regards itself as the little underdog in many ways.  And the fact Tony Abbott almost begged Obama to allow Australia to send troops to fight, kill and die in any dispute going, disgusted many of us but most likely swelled others with pride

As to busting the ANZAC myth, who wants to do that?  The kids who undertake the trek to Turkey every year in order to stand at Gallipoli?  The tens of thousands who get up early to attend dawn services and later to line the streets, dabbing their eyes with tissues?

Australia makes a big deal of ANZAC because Australia obviously needs ANZAC.  It's said that the ANZACs moulded Australia and put Australia and Australians on the map in the eyes of Australians

Every nation and culture has its myths and legends.  They exist for a reason and people are reluctant to let them go.  The NWO will have a never-ending fight on its hands if it attempts to take them away.  There are third and fourth generation migrant decendants in Oz who rupture their lungs as they scream for their homeland's team and fly their homeland's flag at sporting events.  Then a few days later, they're back to being Aussies.  But deep down, their homeland and all it means to them still lives, even if they've never left Australia

So surely Aussies can keep ANZAC

How many Anzacs were born in Australia? I suggest 90% of 'Anzacs' were British born.

That should prick the Anzac bubble.

Are politics and the mainstream media out of touch with the population?

From the following, make your conclusions.

Mass numbers of high school students are protesting climate inaction and adani

Liberal party supports adani and industry
Labor supports adani
Media support police and ASIO

Police and ASIO say stop and arrest environmental protesters. Potentially under anti terror legislation.

So are politicians, the media, police, ASIO et al massively out of touch with the electorate?

Are we experiencing significant political instability?

My answer is yes.

Repeat this experiment with the anti Iraq war protests. Same answer.

The government is creating political opposition to the established order. They are pushing back. They feel their voices are unheard.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 4:23pm:


Quote:

[Source]

So, until 1920, everybody in Australia was British subjects.  However it was not until 1948 that they become officially Australian citizens.  So your argument is really rather nonsensical.   

If China decided tomorrow that instead of forking out billions on our natural resources that it would just land it's massive army and take them, then without our  US alliance we would be farked. People need to understand that. We are pretty much a defenceless nation and way outnumbered. Be anti- American all you like but that would change in a second if a Chinese soldier kicked your door down. Our high standard of living and comfort has blinded us to the true realities of what's going on in the world and our true place in it.

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 6:05pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 5:54pm:


IYO, Hammer.  That does not necessarily equate to reality.   We have an alliance with the US.  However, whereas we have made it the keystone of our defence and foreign policies, to the US we were merely just another block in their containment wall against the fUSSR.   Our alliance was to placate us, against the possibility of a resurgent Imperial, militarist Japan.  Whereas we believe it guaranteed that the US would come to our aid, in reality, clause III of the alliance only requires a conference if any of our or their forces (or NZ's) were threatened in the Pacific region.

As to whether or not, the US would honour what they have agreed to, is another matter.   Howard, seizing on the opportunity that September 11 offered, convened a defence conference with the US in Washington, despite neither New York or Washington being on the Pacific coast of the US.   Bush Junior was delighted to have Canberra sign up to his crusade against al Q'aeda (and later Saddam Hussein).

When we have asked for American aid when we have felt threatened by other nations - namely Indonesia - in 1960, 1965, 1975 and in 1999, the US has been reluctant to honor what we believe was it's commitment was.   In 1960, it favoured Indonesia, because of the need for Polaris quipped submarines to transit Indonesia waters from Guam to the Indian Ocean to allow them to attack the fUSSR.  In 1965, it was becoming concerned with affairs in Vietnam and decided that as the UK was involved under the Five Powers Defence Agreement it was not required to act against Indonesia.   In 1975, it knew that Indonesia was no threat to Australia and believed Suharto's word that it was only going to invade East Timor.   In 1999, affairs in Europe distracted it.  So, on the four occasions we have felt the need for American support, in each case, Washington has decided otherwise.

Trump's attitude towards Beijing is reassuring to Canberra, even if Beijing is our biggest customer for our agriculture and mining.   Trump appears unwilling to bow to China's ascendancy to become the most powerful economy in the world.  China has no plans to attack Australia.  Why should it, as long as Australia is willing to sell it what it wants?  Why waste the manpower and the resources?  It would require a considerable retraining of a large part of the PLA and considerable re-equipping of the PLAN and PLAAF.   

Australia is a long, long, way from China.   China is more concerned with events in it's immediate neighbourhood and always has been.  Australia is a difficult nation to attack.  Time and distance play a significant part in our defence. Our neighbours are the outer rim of our defences.   As long as Indonesia remains hostile to China, the less like the Chinese are to gain bases closer to Australia from which they could mount an attack or an invasion.   If they did, they would still need to cross the air-sea gap.  A gap which we presently control and we would be able to attack their attacking force in and interdict their logistics in.  They then are faced with the invidious choice of where to attack?  The Top End or the SE Corner.   The Top End is closer but is still remote from where the majority of the population lives and where most of our industries reside and where our politicians are.   The SE Corner is where all those things are but you need to sail 'round the continent to reach it, thereby exposing your forces to greater attack and interdiction from naval and air forces.

The ADF has trained in Australia it's entire existence.  It knows how to live here, the PLA does not.   It knows how to use the resources here, the PLA does not.  The PLA would require approximately three to four times the forces the ADF presently has at it's command to make an adequate bridgehead.   That requires a lot of shipping and a large number of escort craft to ferry to where ever they are planning to attack.  Once ashore, it and it's logistics would be again vulnerable to the ADF which would attack and interdict it's supply train.   Like the Russians in the old joke, we can simply wait until the Chinese are tired out and lack the resources and then we could attack them.

We are not assured of a victory but we would have a good chance, even without direct US involvement.   If the US did become involved, then the Chinese would have no chance at all.

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 6:05pm:


Oh, dear, another rewriting of history, according to Hammer?

Vietnam Veterans were treated very differently to WWI and WWII and Korean War veterans.   They received considerable help upon their return.  The Repatriation Dept. was set up to handle their immediate and ongoing health problems.  The Solder-Settler schemes were created to settle them on the land in their own farms and help them to learn to become farmers (despite the majority having come from within the cities).   Housing was provided by a grateful nation and society.   The overwhelming majority resettled into Australian life perfectly OK.  Soldier-Settlers were a problem, primarily because the land they were settled on was marginal and because of the inexperience of the settlers.   However, there were some successes even there.

The Vietnam Veterans were however treated differently.  The war was not popular  because of the use of conscripts to fight it.  The veterans were basically demobilised overnight after their return from combat, whereas in previous wars they waited several months before returning home.  This resulted in small amount of time to readjust to peacetime living.   Whereas in WWI and WWII demobilisation included training in new skills and careers.  The RSL did not welcome them amongst their ranks.  Society as a whole turned their backs on them.  They did not have a welcome home march through the cities of Australia.  This left a lot of disgruntled diggers.  Many in turn become involved in crime, drugs and other bad things in reaction but the rest were just left to their down devices.   The Repat department contested a lot of their claims for compensation, which had not occurred to previous generations.  Overall, they had a bad deal of it.

They finally got a welcome home parade in 1987.  I remember it well, attending the one in Sydney on the sidelines.  A lot of satisfied diggers marched, believing they were once more accepted by society.   However, many still had their demons, their problems with drugs and drink and so on.  They didn't go away.

The experience of the Vietnam Veterans taught Australian society a valuable, if somewhat costly lesson.  You don't blame the diggers for doing their job because of the bad decisions of politicians.  Today, diggers are honoured for their service, as they should be.  They march proudly on ANZAC day and wear their medals with pride.   The Repat Department are still bastards though. 

Double post.  Had problems with browser.

I can't believe you are arguing with me about this. My fathers uncle blew his head off in a oven about 20 years after coming home from a Japanese POW camp. My mates uncle shot himself in the head. My pop was a smoker and bad drinker because he was in New Guinea. He died early.  My mates father was a bad drinker and smoker because of his service. They chopped off both of his legs before he died. Across the road when I lived in Blacktown was a Vietnam veteran who had a steel plate in his head from a booby trap. Every Saturday morning the whole street erupted from his domestic abuse. My father went around to his house one time and all the fibro walls were smashed in. His two kids were traumatised. The ones who witnessed combat were all damaged in some way. And it was years after Vietnam when they finally started diagnosing combat trauma. They weren't treated properly Brian. You know that.

Australia has neglected her friends whilst being important and saying in the media she "pinches above her weight and kicks you in the balls".

Laugh till you cry wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 9:44pm:


Nope.  They came from Australia and New Zealand.   They were enlisted in the Australian and New Zealand Armies, not the British Army.   We were an independent, self-governing dominion.   We were still working our way though many issues, citizenship was just one of them.   We got it right in the end.   Menzies once declared in Parliament that he believed he was "British to his bootstraps!"   He was but he was also an Australian.

Quote:


I've never seen an Australia politician "kneel" before British Royalty or a British politician.   You appear to live in an alternative reality if you believe that is commonplace.   

Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 7:46pm:



You are talking about a relative minority of former Australian service people, Hammer.   Only 22,000 Australians became Pow(J), out of a total of nearly 1 million Australians who served.  That is a tiny minority.

As I've said, the Vietnam Veterans had a rough time but not all of them suffered from "combat trauma", Hammer.  I've served with and lived across the road, from Vietnam Veterans and they were perfectly normal people.  No violence, no problems, nothing to differentiate between them and other Australians except they served in Vietnam.   

Jasin wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 11:29pm:


Posers who pretend they are war heroes but spent their time counting stores in a warehouse because they were too chickenshit to face the enemy?

Brian Ross wrote on May 2^nd, 2019 at 1:59pm:


If you've never denigrated another service member you were never in the infantry. That is all the infantry do.

Brian Ross wrote on Apr 29^th, 2019 at 11:12pm:

My observation is mostly aimed at ww1 and ww2 veterans who witnessed combat. I'm not talking about REMF's Brian. Most came home damaged. Especially the ww1 veterans. They did have a roster but went through some truly terrible battles and constant shelling.

Brian Ross wrote on May 2^nd, 2019 at 4:58pm:


Brian you are full of poo.

You have gone from:

Blanket counter extraordinaire

To:

Masters of PhD from ADFA

To:

Living across the road from Vietnam veterans and serving with different Vietnam veterans in the Army

To:

Collaborating with the official Australian war historian for Afghanistan

To:

Being in the infantry

You. Are. A. Liar. You. Stupid. Astronaut.

Okay. Back to the youth.

As opposed to the dinosaurs.