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Another Islamophobe attacks... (Read 13247 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #195 - May 16th, 2019 at 1:21pm
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:29am:
freediver wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 9:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 6:15pm:
The west rose to the top of the economic and military food chain on the back of the largest slave trade the world has ever seen.

Then they grew a sudden and miraculous conscience about the evils of slavery.

freedom innit


They rose to the top on the back of freedom. They had been working at abolishing it for about a millenia. Can you explain why that counts as sudden?


Millenia eh?

It grew and expanded for about a millenia.

Britain abolished it because they were already top dog and didn't want their rivals to get the same benefit they got from it for centuries.

Can you define what you mean by "working at abolishing it" - because slavery literally exploded in the west during most of that millenium.

Is it that they were not really working very hard?


It exploded in the "wild west", where it already existed. Slavery was largely ended in Europe by about AD1000. The process started around AD300. It did not resurge in Europe as a result of the Atlantic slave trade. Slavery has always held back every society that adopted it. It is wishful thinking on your part to suggest that European dominance came on the back of slavery. It came on the back of the industrial revolution and earlier social changes, for which a free market in human labour was a necessary precondition.

Are you suggesting that the gradual eradication of slavery between AD300 and AD 1000 was caused by what happened about a millennia afterwards? Or just trying to turn history on its head to avoid facing an uncomfortable truth?


Who worked at abolishing slavery and establishing a free market for human labour in 300AD, FD?

I'm curious.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #196 - May 16th, 2019 at 1:56pm
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:58pm:
It exploded in the "wild west", where it already existed. Slavery was largely ended in Europe by about AD1000. The process started around AD300. It did not resurge in Europe as a result of the Atlantic slave trade. Slavery has always held back every society that adopted it. It is wishful thinking on your part to suggest that European dominance came on the back of slavery. It came on the back of the industrial revolution and earlier social changes, for which a free market in human labour was a necessary precondition.


Are you attempting to claim that Europeans didn't have slavery on the basis that there were no slaves physically on European soil while the Europeans were running the greatest slave trade the world has ever known?

Because if you are, that would be hillarious.

But then again I think you have previously made the heroic case that Britain gained no economic benefit from the slave trade, so...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #197 - May 16th, 2019 at 3:42pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 1:56pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:58pm:
It exploded in the "wild west", where it already existed. Slavery was largely ended in Europe by about AD1000. The process started around AD300. It did not resurge in Europe as a result of the Atlantic slave trade. Slavery has always held back every society that adopted it. It is wishful thinking on your part to suggest that European dominance came on the back of slavery. It came on the back of the industrial revolution and earlier social changes, for which a free market in human labour was a necessary precondition.


Are you attempting to claim that Europeans didn't have slavery on the basis that there were no slaves physically on European soil while the Europeans were running the greatest slave trade the world has ever known?

Because if you are, that would be hillarious.

But then again I think you have previously made the heroic case that Britain gained no economic benefit from the slave trade, so...


FD's also suggested the Arabs (Negroid sub-breed a plausible theory) worked the slave trade for themselves, not Uncle and Mother.

Imagine all those African slaves fanning the Bedouins and feeding them grapes as they while away by their oasises. Wipe away all thought from your mind of the sprawling slave plantations of Virginia and Alabama. Whitey wouldn't do that.

Not without your Muselman talking him into it, anyway. Your Arab/Negroid sub-breed can be quite a cunning salesman, you know.
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freediver
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #199 - May 16th, 2019 at 5:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 1:56pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:58pm:
It exploded in the "wild west", where it already existed. Slavery was largely ended in Europe by about AD1000. The process started around AD300. It did not resurge in Europe as a result of the Atlantic slave trade. Slavery has always held back every society that adopted it. It is wishful thinking on your part to suggest that European dominance came on the back of slavery. It came on the back of the industrial revolution and earlier social changes, for which a free market in human labour was a necessary precondition.


Are you attempting to claim that Europeans didn't have slavery on the basis that there were no slaves physically on European soil while the Europeans were running the greatest slave trade the world has ever known?

Because if you are, that would be hillarious.

But then again I think you have previously made the heroic case that Britain gained no economic benefit from the slave trade, so...


I am saying what I said - that slavery came to an end in Europe well before then, and that it was this absence of slavery that caused their rise to dominance. I am stating the opposite to your claim that slavery was the cause of their rise to dominance.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #200 - May 16th, 2019 at 6:54pm
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 5:55pm:
I am saying what I said - that slavery came to an end in Europe well before then


Yes FD, but that is not an argument given that they unquestionably still benefited from slavery.

Europeans ran the greatest slave trade in all of history after that. So they clearly still believed in slavery - even if they were gracious enough not to enslave each other.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #201 - May 16th, 2019 at 6:56pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 6:54pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 5:55pm:
I am saying what I said - that slavery came to an end in Europe well before then


Yes FD, but that is not an argument given that they unquestionably still benefited from slavery.

Europeans ran the greatest slave trade in all of history after that. So they clearly still believed in slavery - even if they were gracious enough not to enslave each other.


Were Europeans some kind of mindless collective Gandalf?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #202 - May 16th, 2019 at 7:13pm
 
I prefer my question:

Did Europeans run the greatest slave trade the world has ever seen?

I feel its more catchy and more relevant too.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #203 - May 16th, 2019 at 9:06pm
 
The Europeans did everything greater than the Muslims Gandalf. That includes both trading slaves and ending slavery. Trading in pretty much everything really.

Are you changing the subject because you are conceding all your previous points were wrong?

Do you still think slavery benefits society?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #204 - May 16th, 2019 at 9:31pm
 
FD?

Mattyfisk wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 1:21pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 12:58pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:29am:
freediver wrote on May 15th, 2019 at 9:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 6:15pm:
The west rose to the top of the economic and military food chain on the back of the largest slave trade the world has ever seen.

Then they grew a sudden and miraculous conscience about the evils of slavery.

freedom innit


They rose to the top on the back of freedom. They had been working at abolishing it for about a millenia. Can you explain why that counts as sudden?


Millenia eh?

It grew and expanded for about a millenia.

Britain abolished it because they were already top dog and didn't want their rivals to get the same benefit they got from it for centuries.

Can you define what you mean by "working at abolishing it" - because slavery literally exploded in the west during most of that millenium.

Is it that they were not really working very hard?


It exploded in the "wild west", where it already existed. Slavery was largely ended in Europe by about AD1000. The process started around AD300. It did not resurge in Europe as a result of the Atlantic slave trade. Slavery has always held back every society that adopted it. It is wishful thinking on your part to suggest that European dominance came on the back of slavery. It came on the back of the industrial revolution and earlier social changes, for which a free market in human labour was a necessary precondition.

Are you suggesting that the gradual eradication of slavery between AD300 and AD 1000 was caused by what happened about a millennia afterwards? Or just trying to turn history on its head to avoid facing an uncomfortable truth?


Who worked at abolishing slavery and establishing a free market for human labour in 300AD, FD?

I'm curious.

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freediver
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #205 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:11pm
 
Europeans. Christians most likely.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #206 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:15pm
 
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
Europeans. Christians most likely.


"Europe" didn't exist in 300 AD, FD. Could you be specific, please?
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Frank
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #207 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:22pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
Europeans. Christians most likely.


"Europe" didn't exist in 300 AD, FD. Could you be specific, please?

Didnt it?

Was it called Pakistan?

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Mattyfisk
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #208 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:24pm
 
Frank wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:22pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
Europeans. Christians most likely.


"Europe" didn't exist in 300 AD, FD. Could you be specific, please?

Didnt it?

Was it called Pakistan?



It was called the Roman Empire. When did they ban slavery, old boy?

In fact, when did any "European" complain about slavery in the first millennium?

FD?
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Frank
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Re: Another Islamophobe attacks...
Reply #209 - May 16th, 2019 at 10:28pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:24pm:
Frank wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:22pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:15pm:
freediver wrote on May 16th, 2019 at 10:11pm:
Europeans. Christians most likely.


"Europe" didn't exist in 300 AD, FD. Could you be specific, please?

Didnt it?

Was it called Pakistan?



It was called the Roman Empire. When did they ban slavery, old boy?

In fact, when did any "European" complain about slavery in the first millennium?

FD?

Where was Scandinavia? Not in the Roman Empire. Musta been in Europe. But Europe didnt exist, only Pakistan existed.

Mebbe ring Bwian, paki.

Between the two of you you know everything.


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