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climate skeptics derailing threads (Read 5321 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #375 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 6:19pm
 
Germany's a leading industrial economy, Lee. And yet, 65% of their electricity is now coming in from renewables.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/renewables-generated-a-record-65-percent-of-germany...

Now I don't think you don't believe it can be done, I think you oppose it. I think you want to keep burning fossil fuels and you want to keep polluting. Why?

To get back at the leftards.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #376 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 6:49pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 6:19pm:
Germany's a leading industrial economy, Lee. And yet, 65% of their electricity is now coming in from renewables.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/renewables-generated-a-record-65-percent-of-germany
...



wow. For a whole week. is that supposed to be impressive?

"Germany struggles with dirty energy in climate change battle ..."

https://www.ft.com/content/897922e2-129b-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #377 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 7:16pm
 
"The revamped Franco-German alliance is fracturing thanks to the countries’ differing approaches to climate policy.

The rift between Paris and Berlin was evident ahead of a summit of EU leaders on Thursday and Friday where the bloc's long-term climate strategy is on the agenda, according to unpublished documents reviewed by POLITICO.

Climate policy is dividing countries, with some “vehemently opposed” to having any meaningful discussion on the topic at the summit, according to an EU diplomat.

France is spearheading a group of countries that want the EU to cut emissions to net zero by 2050 — meaning the bloc would absorb as much greenhouse gases as it emits. That’s seen as crucial in reaching the more ambitious goal of the 2015 Paris Agreement, which aims to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees.

But Germany, long at the forefront of pushing greener policies, is now getting cold feet thanks to the economic and political costs."

https://www.politico.eu/article/franco-german-alliance-splinters-over-climate-po...
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Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #378 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 6:49pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 6:19pm:
Germany's a leading industrial economy, Lee. And yet, 65% of their electricity is now coming in from renewables.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/renewables-generated-a-record-65-percent-of-germany
...



wow. For a whole week. is that supposed to be impressive?

"Germany struggles with dirty energy in climate change battle ..."

https://www.ft.com/content/897922e2-129b-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e


You don't think that's impressive, eh?

Of course you don't. Your role here is to try to prevent this from occurring.

South Australia's on track to meet its 75% target in 6 years. Some days, it already does.

Over on this side of the continent, the Snowy 2.0 scheme is designed to be that battery you mentioned. The ACT's building a solar plant. It has just announced a renewable target of 100% - by next year.

So yes, I think a carbon tax would help this momentum. Australia has everything we need for a fully energy-efficient country. The transition to renewables could happen a lot quicker than we once thought.

And in 20 years time, you'll still be denying global warming/cooling and hammering away about bringing back coal power.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #379 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:05pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
You don't think that's impressive, eh?


No. at least one month preferably two.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
Of course you don't. Your role here is to try to prevent this from occurring.



Exactly how will I stop Germany getting to any level they want?

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
South Australia's on track to meet its 75% target in 6 years. Some days, it already does.


Some days eh?

Now that you have said those things. What happens, in Germany the other 51 weeks of the year? Fossil fuel still?  Same applies to SA.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
Over on this side of the continent, the Snowy 2.0 scheme is designed to be that battery you mentioned.



Yes petal Hydro can do that. Of course there is not much scope for hydro over much of Australia.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
The ACT's building a solar plant. It has just announced a renewable target of 100% - by next year.


Targets are merely that. It is the achievement of targets that are should be newsworthy. tell us when they achieve their target.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
Australia has everything we need for a fully energy-efficient country.


Yes. Wind, Drought, Floods. Of course it doesn't help Solar in heavy rain events. It doesn't help wind in wind drought conditions.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 9:46pm:
And in 20 years time, you'll still be denying global warming/cooling and hammering away about bringing back coal power.



In 20 years times I will have probably popped my clogs.

But you initially insisted China was going well, then Germany. I pointed out that was fallacious.

And then there is that tiny detail people don't want to mention.

While the rest of the world is blathering about their hopes to achieve net zero emissions - we are already there.  Because Australia is a carbon sink.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #380 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:12pm
 
Germany and China are on the road. There is no doubt about how serious the Krauts and Chows are about energy efficiency. Even India is now rolling out solar panels at a huge rate.

No one's denying the reality, Lee.

Except you, dear.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #381 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:32pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:12pm:
Germany and China are on the road. There is no doubt about how serious the Krauts and Chows are about energy efficiency



yes. That is why Germany is still mining Lignite the dirtiest coal. And China building more coal fired plants.

"A study by green campaigners CoalSwarm shows 259 gigawatts (GW) of coal-fired capacity under development in China.

This is almost equivalent to the total installed coal power capacity in the U.S. of 266 GW."


https://www.businessinsider.com.au/china-coal-fired-power-station-buildup-2018-9...

So new plant that nearly matches the total coal fired plant in the USA.


India? "Coal is king in India—and will likely remain so"


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/planetpolicy/2019/03/08/coal-is-king-in-india-and...

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 10:12pm:
No one's denying the reality, Lee.



That is the reality petal. They are building more coal fired plant. live with it.

And China is not only building coal plant in China but also overseas.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #382 - Apr 28th, 2019 at 11:50pm
 
Rather alarmist predictions you're quoting there, Lee.

We certainly won't quote that, dear.
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #383 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:04am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 11:50pm:
Rather alarmist predictions you're quoting there, Lee.



Which predictions. The satellite photos of Chinese building new coal plants? St aright from a Green Eco site? Yes. Ican see why you wouldn't want to quote them.



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Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #384 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 12:06pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 11:04am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 28th, 2019 at 11:50pm:
Rather alarmist predictions you're quoting there, Lee.



Which predictions. The satellite photos of Chinese building new coal plants? St aright from a Green Eco site? Yes. Ican see why you wouldn't want to quote them.



You're right. That's scary. Unless...

Do you work in coal?
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #385 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 1:02pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 12:06pm:
Do you work in coal?



No petal. Do you work for deep green?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #386 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:06pm
 
Deep green. That sounds nice, dear.

My point is not that coal is redundant. It's that we're in the dawning of the transition to renewable energy. While this is an  investment in the short term, it pays dividends in the long term. Solar, wind, hydro, thermal, etc, are free.

Australian energy prices keep rising, and we use coal. The economics of this are quite simple. They should not even be lost on someone who's sole dog in this race is political ideology.

China's coal does not just produce CO2, it produces mass lung problems. The government is serious in overcoming this. It's a huge political issue in China, where in some cities, people keep their kids indoors when the smog's at its worse.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #387 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:28pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
Deep green. That sounds nice, dear.


And you didn't rebut it. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
While this is an  investment in the short term, it pays dividends in the long term.



May do.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
Solar, wind, hydro, thermal, etc, are free.


Well not actually. Solar collectors cost money, wind generators cost money, dams cost money, and sinking wells costs money.

We know Solar and wind are intermittent, therefore not going to provide a sustainable future.

Hydro is good, but as I pointed out the other day the sites for it are few, and they generate great angst because of drowning viable land.

Thermal is interesting. The only thermal I know of was in SA and it was closed because it was not viable. In the US they have had troubles because the hot rocks that underlie the thermal are actually cooling so getting less bang for buck as time goes on. Whereas other systems seem to get more bang for buck with the increasing passage of time.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
Australian energy prices keep rising, and we use coal. The economics of this are quite simple. They should not even be lost on someone who's sole dog in this race is political ideology.


And of course it has nothing to do with the burgeoning renewables sector and their subsidies. Grin Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
China's coal does not just produce CO2, it produces mass lung problems. The government is serious in overcoming this


That must be why they are building so many more of them.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 3:06pm:
It's a huge political issue in China, where in some cities, people keep their kids indoors when the smog's at its worse.


It is not a HUGE political issue in a one party state. And strangely the Chinese in Shangahai have a longer life expectancy than parts of the USA.

"China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-lifespan/china-overtakes-u-s-for-healt...

"Life expectancy in Shanghai tops 83 years?"

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2017-03/29/content_28726570.htm

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Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #388 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:23pm
 
Your article states that Chinese coal generators are built by the private sector, dear, despite government opposition.

Here, our government can't even get it together to shape a cohesive policy. In Australia, domestic power generation is managed by the private sector too. Why would it invest in renewables if, as you say, it drives up power prices? Without a price on carbon, there is no incentive to do so.

In China, politicians have kids and elderly relatives. Some are elderly themselves. They are witnessing first hand - something we've never had to do - the effect of coal pollution on their own families.

That's the thing about air, Lee. We all share it.

Now rather than just arguing every point like a certain jellyfish that floats around here, why don't you tell us your own vision? Mine is homeostasis - an economy that balances nicely with the environment. This is what all systems of life, in one way or another, come to achieve. If not, the aggressive ones die - like a virus taken down by antibodies.

Indeed, many of the "symptoms" of global warming are the result of excessive CO2 - more jellyfish, for example, as the sea's pH balance changes.

What sound do you think that makes?

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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #389 - Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:35pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:23pm:
Your article states that Chinese coal generators are built by the private sector, dear, despite government opposition.



yes petal. that must be really really difficult in a one party state. They do have planning laws I assume. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:23pm:
In Australia, domestic power generation is managed by the private sector too.


Sold by the States. And they also have planning laws. Wink

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:23pm:
In China, politicians have kids and elderly relatives. Some are elderly themselves. They are witnessing first hand - something we've never had to do - the effect of coal pollution on their own families.


Yes. No politician in Australia has kids and elderly relatives. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:23pm:
That's the thing about air, Lee. We all share it.



We all share what petal? The atmosphere? We don't share Shanghais's atmosphere.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:23pm:
Mine is homeostasis - an economy that balances nicely with the environment.


Ah that balance thing again.

Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 29th, 2019 at 9:23pm:
This is what all systems of life, in one way or another, come to achieve. If not, the aggressive ones die - like a virus taken down by antibodies.


I wonder what the balance would be without antibiotics?
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