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climate skeptics derailing threads (Read 1636 times)
Abu
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #15 - Apr 6th, 2019 at 11:14pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 10:54pm:
lee wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 7:47pm:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
Nobody is saying we will all die.



"As newly anointed Democratic thought-leader Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., once reminded us, "like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/spend-93-trillion-on-the-green-new-deal-or-well-all-die-in-like-12-years[/url]

[url]Dnarever wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
I would be making a list of the names of people with your view who are blocking action and if the science turns out to be true your descendants would be the ones at risk and going without.


Oh. Only IF it turns out to be true. That means there is some likelihood of it not being true. Who knew? Grin Grin Grin

What are the statistics for those scientists who believe in AGW to the 95% confidence level? Wink



Of course there is a chance that the dominant scientific view could be wrong, I would think that they are only at about 95% probability. If you want to risk the life of your descendants on that other 5% go ahead.


How could it be wrong? The world's heating up and CO2 is creating the heat. CO2 output and temperature rise correlate perfectly. And the CO2 comes from burning the fuel that creates that heat.

Our energy is making the world hotter. The only way to make it cooler is to stop doing things, or do them using the energy that's already there - sun, wind, sea.

Year 9 maths, innit.
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #16 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 7:59am
 
Of course it's true. It's already happening. By Lee's logic he would stand on the train tracks as a train approaches demanding proof it will hit him if he doesn't move.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Valkie
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #17 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:22am
 
The world goes through heating and cooling cycles every year
They are called seasons.

It's caused because of our proximity to the sun and the angle of the planet in its axis.

Our world also wanders through the universe circling our galactic centrepoint.
Who is it say that it's proximity to other influences may or may not affect our weather patterns?

The planet we live on has gone through many heating and cooling cycles over the millions of years it has existed.
Heating and cooling cycles not caused by cars or power stations.
And not one of these climate scientists can tell us why, not one.
They have theories and guesses, but no definitive answers.

Now
I do believe that we should be doing more to reduce poisoning our planet.
And the most effective way tgere is would be population reduction.
All pollution is caused by an ever growing population using more and more, clearing land and destroying forests and the ocean.

Think
If we reduced the world's population by 2/3
We woukd automatically reduce pollution by 2/3

I'm not advocating murder or genocide
Simply stopping aid to countries who allow their population to grow exponentially without the ability to support them.
Better still
Mandate compulsory sterilization for any country that has a population that is excessive.

If we do not stop overpopulation soon
It will result in the destruction of our planet far faster than any amount of pollution we could ever produce.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Dnarever
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #18 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:29am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 26th, 2019 at 8:34am:
Putting a price on greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions is the cheapest, most economically efficient way to reduce emissions. Here is a statement of consensus from economists saying the same thing:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/economics-hopeful-science.html



100% Correct.

Abbott and the Liberals shooting down the best available option put them into government at the expense of Australia's best interests.

We had by far the best option in place. 
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Ajax
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #19 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:32am
 
Abu wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 11:14pm:
How could it be wrong? The world's heating up and CO2 is creating the heat. CO2 output and temperature rise correlate perfectly. And the CO2 comes from burning the fuel that creates that heat.

Our energy is making the world hotter. The only way to make it cooler is to stop doing things, or do them using the energy that's already there - sun, wind, sea.

Year 9 maths, innit.


Everything you have said above apart from the “year 9 maths” can only be true if you believe what the computer models predicted in 1990, and we all know about computers right, sh!t in sh!t out, doesn’t matter whether you’re working in economics, engineering, your tax return and yes even Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW).

You see for the computer models to have been correct we should have reached a certain plateau by now which we haven’t, we know this by observing nature and in science this usually means that the theory was wrong, if your theory doesn’t match observations in nature then your theory (computer models) is wrong.

So we should have been at a certain point by now but we haven’t reached it, that’s why the sceptics are calling it a hiatus and everything else under the sun etc.

In 1990 the computer models predicted that by the end of this century the global mean average temperature will rise by 2.78°C so we should have been heating up by a certain amount every year up til now to reach this target that the computer models said we would reach.

The last 28 years (since 1990) of empirical data (observing nature) suggests that by the end of this century the global mean average temperature will rise by 1°C which is not out of the norm for heating and cooling cycles of the earth.

So you see Karnal we don’t have to spend billions of tax payer dollars buying carbon credits on the stock exchange lining the pockets of the Gores and Soros’s of this world and on top giving the United Nations 10% of some crazy carbon tax or ETS scheme.

The temperature in accordance with observations in nature for the last 28 years since those crazy computer model predictions in 1990 will only rise 1°C by the end of this century.

The Earth has been heating up since the little ice age no one can deny that and with this heating the weather has changed accordingly, you might want to ask the United Nations IPCC why they originally had the medieval warm period and the little ice age graph in their papers only to change it out for Michael Mann’s hockey stick graph.

......
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« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:37am by Ajax »  

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a paedophile" Kevin Bishop
 
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Ajax
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #20 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:33am
 
The Essence Of Science In 60 Seconds (Richard Feynman)

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a paedophile" Kevin Bishop
 
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Dnarever
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #21 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:33am
 
Abu wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 11:14pm:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 10:54pm:
lee wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 7:47pm:
Dnarever wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
Nobody is saying we will all die.



"As newly anointed Democratic thought-leader Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., once reminded us, "like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/spend-93-trillion-on-the-green-new-deal-or-well-all-die-in-like-12-years[/url]

[url]Dnarever wrote on Apr 6th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
I would be making a list of the names of people with your view who are blocking action and if the science turns out to be true your descendants would be the ones at risk and going without.


Oh. Only IF it turns out to be true. That means there is some likelihood of it not being true. Who knew? Grin Grin Grin

What are the statistics for those scientists who believe in AGW to the 95% confidence level? Wink



Of course there is a chance that the dominant scientific view could be wrong, I would think that they are only at about 95% probability. If you want to risk the life of your descendants on that other 5% go ahead.


How could it be wrong? The world's heating up and CO2 is creating the heat. CO2 output and temperature rise correlate perfectly. And the CO2 comes from burning the fuel that creates that heat.

Our energy is making the world hotter. The only way to make it cooler is to stop doing things, or do them using the energy that's already there - sun, wind, sea.

Year 9 maths, innit.


Maybe ask Croc - he got year 10 economics you know ?
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Dnarever
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #22 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:37am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2019 at 7:59am:
Of course it's true. It's already happening. By Lee's logic he would stand on the train tracks as a train approaches demanding proof it will hit him if he doesn't move.


In Lee's world it isn't true unless someone else is doing the work for him and even then it isn't true unless it agrees with his preset view.

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Ajax
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #23 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:45am
 
Karnal while your at it ask Al Gore why he only ever shows time scales of CO2 and temperature in the hundreds of thousands of years.

Why not another time scale the correlation should hold true if it is true.............. Grin Smiley Wink




Is there any correlation between CO2 and temperature?

(1).....On a small time scale
(NO)
,
(11,000 years)


Showing from 200 to 11000 years ago, the subsequent graph is based on ice core data, readily visible in files hosted on the servers of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):GISP 2 and EPICA Dome C

Graph-1

...

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-histor...



(2).....On a medium time scale YES???, (450,000 years)


(NO)
, It appears so because of the scale we are zoomed out at.


WARNING !
This is the scale that most global warming sites use to scare the unsuspecting.


Over the past few hundred thousand years of ice core data, a “medium” time scale in this sense, CO2 superficially appears to change in step with temperature if a graph is so zoomed out as to not show sub-millennial time
scales well

Graph-2

...

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-histor...

A record of temperature and atmospheric CO2 over the past 400,000 years is preserved in the Vostok Ice Core and is shown in the figure on the right.

It can be seen that there have been a series of large fluctuations in temperature (the Ice Ages), accompanied by large changes in atmospheric CO2.

It is thought that these large temperature fluctuations are triggered by Milankovitch cycles - variations in the earth's orbit that change the amount of energy from the sun that reaches us.

However, on their own, these cycles are not enough to explain the changes in temperature.

The full explanation seems to be that the small change in temperature caused by the changing orbit are amplified by natural processes on earth. These cause CO2 to be released from the oceans and the biosphere, causing an increased greenhouse effect.

This is described more fully in this article from the New Scientist (see also Shackleton 2000). For more details on the timing of changes in CO2 and temperature, click on the figure.

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/paleoclimate.htm#100,000years



(3).....On a long time scale
(NO)
,
(millions of years)


Graph-3

...

[url]http://s155.n46.n171.n68.static.myhostcenter.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocarb_III-Berner.pdf[/urll]



(4).....Lately

......
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a paedophile" Kevin Bishop
 
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #24 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:47am
 
Ajax why do all your plots look like they were put together by a primary school student for homework?
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Ajax
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #25 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:50am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2019 at 8:47am:
Ajax why do all your plots look like they were put together by a primary school student for homework?


Have a look at the fine print its either an et al or a satellite from where the data comes..... Wink

Colourful aint they................... Smiley
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a paedophile" Kevin Bishop
 
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #26 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 9:07am
 
What fine print? All you have given us is links to very dodgy looking websites. If you cannot be bothered finding credible sources, how can you expect others to take you seriously? There is a scientific consensus on this, thousands of papers published in respected journals (not to mention bipartisan political support and economic consensus that there are cheap and easy fixes), but you want us to chase up your schoolboy excel plots for you?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Ajax
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #27 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 9:24am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2019 at 9:07am:
What fine print? All you have given us is links to very dodgy looking websites. If you cannot be bothered finding credible sources, how can you expect others to take you seriously? There is a scientific consensus on this, thousands of papers published in respected journals (not to mention bipartisan political support and economic consensus that there are cheap and easy fixes), but you want us to chase up your schoolboy excel plots for you?


Here’s another childish graph you might want to think about freediver.

The amount of heating CO2 can cause on planet Earth, since CO2 can only absorb heat in a narrow range of wavelengths then it must have a limit to its influence.

Better known as the logarithmic effect of CO2.

So it doesn’t matter how much CO2 goes up into our atmosphere there will come a time when it will no longer have any effect.

What do we see today, more manmade CO2 than ever before is being pumped out into the atmosphere yet temperatures have stabilized and aren’t following the manmade CO2 trend which is growing exponentially.
 
This must be true because when we had 7000ppm of CO2 in our atmosphere compared to today’s very low 410ppm it should have wiped us out..... Sad


...

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a paedophile" Kevin Bishop
 
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #28 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 9:33am
 
Ajax, anyone can type "lie to me about climate change" into google. Anyone can copy and paste. But if you want to be taken seriously you need to think before you post. Here's a tip: figure out what you want to say, then say it. The fact that the earth was once a ball of hot, molten rock (even on the surface) is not really relevant now, is it?
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Ajax
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #29 - Apr 7th, 2019 at 9:45am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2019 at 9:33am:
Ajax, anyone can type "lie to me about climate change" into google. Anyone can copy and paste. But if you want to be taken seriously you need to think before you post. Here's a tip: figure out what you want to say, then say it. The fact that the earth was once a ball of hot, molten rock (even on the surface) is not really relevant now, is it?


Well how about this then.....!

After the year 2000 fossil fuel emissions have increased three fold to the prior decade.

But the average yearly increase in atmospheric CO2 after the year 2000 remains more or less steady just like the decade prior to the year 2000.

Compared to natural CO2 emissions being emitted every year from the ground and the sea due to heating from the sun, manmade CO2 emissions are just too small to register.

You see we might spend billions trying to curb manmade CO2 emissions and then one day our sun that yellow thing in the sky gets a bit of flatulence (black holes) and presto the increase in natural CO2 will eclipse by far anything we have saved.

Do you know understand how futile trying to curb Anthropogenic Global Warming is…..??


...

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a paedophile" Kevin Bishop
 
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