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carbon taxes are the best (Read 10159 times)
Dnarever
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #75 - May 17th, 2019 at 10:03pm
 
lee wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 9:26pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 8:56pm:
In other words, you harped on for pages with two terms you had just googled to argue that carbon taxes may or may not reduce emissions, without realising that both terms imply they would.


You rely on wiki?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Try an economics book. Wink

Now go back and read what I wrote. About some prices being LARGELY inelastic.

BTW - Did  you read what DNA wrote but didn't actually comprehend?

lee wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 8:46pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 7:20pm:
Power prices for households would fall by 2030 under four different scenarios modelled by Frontier Economics – business as usual and emissions reduction targets of 26%, 45% and 65%.

The research says the price reductions would vary state-by-state, but business as usual would result in an average saving of 18.5%.


So we have even a no carbon tax giving us a good outcome.

So what is the imperative for a carbon tax again? Why would it be "the best"?


No you have a no carbon reduction policy giving the same price reductions as carbon reduction policies.

Same financial outcome with no benefit in reduced pollution.

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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #76 - May 17th, 2019 at 10:13pm
 
lee wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 9:26pm:
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 8:56pm:
In other words, you harped on for pages with two terms you had just googled to argue that carbon taxes may or may not reduce emissions, without realising that both terms imply they would.


You rely on wiki?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Try an economics book. Wink

Now go back and read what I wrote. About some prices being LARGELY inelastic.

BTW - Did  you read what DNA wrote but didn't actually comprehend?

lee wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 8:46pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 7:20pm:
Power prices for households would fall by 2030 under four different scenarios modelled by Frontier Economics – business as usual and emissions reduction targets of 26%, 45% and 65%.

The research says the price reductions would vary state-by-state, but business as usual would result in an average saving of 18.5%.


So we have even a no carbon tax giving us a good outcome.

So what is the imperative for a carbon tax again? Why would it be "the best"?


I read what you wrote. What it means, and what you do not comprehend, is that carbon taxes will reduce emissions. You seemed to think it meant that you could put a price on CO2 emissions and there would be no reduction at all. No-one who actually understand economics would say something that stupid. Only a pretender. Only you.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #77 - May 17th, 2019 at 10:13pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:03pm:
Same financial outcome with no benefit in reduced pollution.


CO2 is not pollution. Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Dnarever
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #78 - May 17th, 2019 at 10:17pm
 
lee wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:13pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:03pm:
Same financial outcome with no benefit in reduced pollution.


CO2 is not pollution. Grin Grin Grin Grin


Almost anything in undesired quantities can be considered to be pollution.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #79 - May 17th, 2019 at 11:03pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:17pm:
Almost anything in undesired quantities can be considered to be pollution.


And what is the scientific established undesired quantity of CO2?

The 10000ppm that they used to get in submarines?

The 1000ppm in greenhouses?
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #80 - May 26th, 2019 at 7:55pm
 
freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 7:13pm:
lee wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 2:45pm:
freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 1:07pm:
They can reduce emissions by any amount up to 100%


Really? Where has this been achieved in the real world?


Do I really have to explain it to you Lee?

Quote:
Why would you reduce emissions to zero?


You wouldn't. Way to completely miss the point lee.

Quote:
Of course it is. It means there is at least one economist who disagrees.


No Lee, that is not what it means.

Quote:
Then perhaps you can find a link to support your contention that all economists support a carbon tax. Wink


Here's a good start:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/economics-hopeful-science.html

Have you found an economists who disagrees yet?


Quote:
It is precisely what it means. Or do you mean a sceptics bias would not allow that but a warmist knows no such bias?


And what it means is not the same thing I was talking about.

Quote:
yes petal. You have made a claim. Back it up with real world experience.


Sure. The first time an eco tax was imposed, it achieved a 100% reduction. That a tax can achieve this ought to be put in the bleeding obvious pile.

Quote:
Oh the  reference you posted that is so out of date.


Do you think economics has changed since then?
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #81 - May 26th, 2019 at 8:37pm
 
freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 7:55pm:
And what it means is not the same thing I was talking about.


Yes. I have seen how you struggle with sentences. Perhaps if you improved that?

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 7:55pm:
Sure. The first time an eco tax was imposed, it achieved a 100% reduction.



Saying it does not make it so. What was this eco tax that was 100% effective?freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 7:55pm:
Do you think economics has changed since then?


It depends on the questions asked. The assumptions made. It always has. Wink
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #82 - May 26th, 2019 at 9:00pm
 
Here it is again Lee:

Carbon pricing is the cheapest and most economically efficient way to reduce GHG emissions.

You have not found an economist who disagrees with that. All you have managed to demonstrate is an inability to understand what is being said.

Labor introduced the cheapest and most economically efficient mechanism for reducing GHG emissions. The coalition discarded it, in favour of far more expensive options. They are populist economic vandals.

If you think the view of economists on carbon pricing has changed since that article was written, you are even more detached from reality than I thought.
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #83 - May 26th, 2019 at 9:06pm
 
freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:00pm:
Carbon pricing is the cheapest and most economically efficient way to reduce GHG emissions.


You have provided no evidence petal. Please try again.

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:00pm:
You have not found an economist who disagrees with that.


No i have found links that say SOME don't agree. Some is MORE than ONE petal.

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:00pm:
Labor introduced the cheapest and most economically efficient mechanism for reducing GHG emissions. The coalition discarded it, in favour of far more expensive options. They are populist economic vandals.


See item 1 above.

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:00pm:
If you think the view of economists on carbon pricing has changed since that article was written, you are even more detached from reality than I thought.


I gave you quotes petal. You just don't like them. So in your tiny mind they must not exist.

As I said Economics  relies on the questions asked and the assumptions used.

If you change the questions and/or you change the assumptions you change the modelled output. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

BTW - you still haven't explained the eco tax that was 100% effective. Wink
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #84 - May 26th, 2019 at 9:09pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 10:17pm:
Almost anything in undesired quantities can be considered to be pollution.



Does dihydrogen monoxide qualify? Wink
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #85 - May 26th, 2019 at 9:34pm
 
Quote:
You have provided no evidence petal. Please try again.


I did not realise you were still denying the bleeding obvious lee. Is This something to do with being a climate skeptic, or a rusted on coalition voter?

Quote:
No i have found links that say SOME don't agree.


That is not what they say Lee. Your inability to comprehend what you read is not evidence.

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I gave you quotes petal. You just don't like them


They would be wonderful quotes if you were trying to make a different point.
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #86 - May 26th, 2019 at 9:47pm
 
freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
I did not realise you were still denying the bleeding obvious lee. Is This something to do with being a climate skeptic, or a rusted on coalition voter?



No, it is to do with an activist who won't post proof.

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
That is not what they say Lee.



It is precisely what they say petal. Wink

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:34pm:
They would be wonderful quotes if you were trying to make a different point.


They could be better if they said you were a shifty activist. Grin Grin Grin

And still nothing to back up your claim of this wonderful 100% efficient eco tax. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #87 - May 26th, 2019 at 9:58pm
 
Quote:
No, it is to do with an activist who won't post proof.


Proof of what Lee? You keep changing your mind. Are you back to denying that carbon taxes reduce GHG emissions?
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #88 - May 26th, 2019 at 10:13pm
 
freediver wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 9:58pm:
Proof of what Lee?



Oh dear; short term memory loss. Where is the proof that "carbon taxes are best"? That is your claim. Where in the world has it actually been proven as the "cheapest and most economically efficient way to reduce GHG emissions"?

And still nothing about this marvellous 100% efficient eco tax. Wink
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #89 - May 28th, 2019 at 7:46am
 
Do you think the liberal party is this stupid - shifting the goal posts and demanding proof because they don't like the fact that every single economist gives them the same advice?

You asked for evidence. I gave you a statement of consensus from economists. You attempted to counter this with an economist who you thought disagreed, but it only demonstrated that you do not understand what they are saying. Now you appear to be demanding some kind of series of experiments on national economies to prove the bleeding obvious.
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