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carbon taxes are the best (Read 17132 times)
lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #60 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:43pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:21pm:
Lee does not allow himself to disagree with the claim that carbon taxes reduce emissions. He can only hold aloft his ignorance.


And yet your ignorance highlighted that you didn't know water vapour was a GHG. Roll Eyes
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #61 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:44pm
 
The infamous "I don't know, therefor no-one else does either".
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #62 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:49pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:44pm:
The infamous "I don't know, therefor no-one else does either".


is that your excuse? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #63 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:53pm
 
You keep projecting your ignorance onto others Lee.

Do you feel like an idiot for banging on for pages about how industries are either largely elastic or largely inelastic, without realising that both imply carbon taxes will reduce emissions?

Or do you still not understand the big terms you tried to use for the first time?
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #64 - May 13th, 2019 at 10:03pm
 
But perhaps you can explain what happens if GHG's are reduced.

What will be the necessary power sources? The ones required to power not just steel making, but semiconductor manufacture, glass and many more.

Because while GHG emission reduction may be a goal; it is not the ultimate goal. That is that we maintain a standard of living. With all its attendant problems.

So what is this source of power that you prefer to maintain that?
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Dnarever
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #65 - May 13th, 2019 at 10:25pm
 
lee wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:42pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:20pm:
I have not read that study but find it a bit strange that the trends moved with the carbon price in place and returned to the previous direction when it was removed. Possible but Looks a bit suspicious maybe ?



Ah yes. The infamous maybe. Wink


You left out your "it would seem"

The report questions (on your word) the fact that the trend followed the actions of the fixed carbon price saying that the fact that emissions dropped when it was introduced and then went back up when it was removed can be explained by other factors.

I would use one of your "it would seem's" to say that maybe it can be explained but is extremely unlikely.

Picture a climbing graph for say 20 years and then there is a blip as it flattens and then returns to its path which coincides to the implementation and removal of the carbon price. Sure you can say that other factors could explain it but the probability would be astonishingly small.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #66 - May 13th, 2019 at 10:33pm
 
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:53pm:
You keep projecting your ignorance onto others Lee.


I am not the one who said that we need to eliminate all GHG's. Wink

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:53pm:
Do you feel like an idiot for banging on for pages about how industries are either largely elastic or largely inelastic, without realising that both imply carbon taxes will reduce emissions?


You do realise that argument is bogus? It implies nothing of the sort. There is no argument that gives rise to whether a good is either elastic or inelastic that implies either or both would reduce emissions under a carbon tax.

But at least you must have done some reading and found out about prices being elastic or inelastic, and not some "special school of economics". Wink

freediver wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:53pm:
Or do you still not understand the big terms you tried to use for the first time?



oh, You feel now you have read a little you know a lot? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #67 - May 13th, 2019 at 10:39pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 10:25pm:
. Sure you can say that other factors could explain it but the probability would be astonishingly small.


Since you have given no indication of what other factors are in play that is specious nonsense. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

If you have say five assumptions that could give the resultant graph and you say only this one will do it, you are a fool or perhaps an activist.

Which one are you? Wink
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #68 - May 14th, 2019 at 7:00am
 
lee wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 10:33pm:
freediver wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:53pm:
Do you feel like an idiot for banging on for pages about how industries are either largely elastic or largely inelastic, without realising that both imply carbon taxes will reduce emissions?


You do realise that argument is bogus? It implies nothing of the sort. There is no argument that gives rise to whether a good is either elastic or inelastic that implies either or both would reduce emissions under a carbon tax.


It's what the terms mean Lee. Like I said, you shouldn't use them if you don't know what they mean. Bluffing doesn't make you look any less stupid.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #69 - May 14th, 2019 at 3:29pm
 
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 7:00am:
It's what the terms mean Lee.


Really? Where did you find price sensitivity defined in terms of carbon tax? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

freediver wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 7:00am:
Bluffing doesn't make you look any less stupid.



No but it makes you look more stupid. Wink
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Dnarever
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #70 - May 14th, 2019 at 8:43pm
 
lee wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 10:39pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 10:25pm:
. Sure you can say that other factors could explain it but the probability would be astonishingly small.


Since you have given no indication of what other factors are in play that is specious nonsense. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

If you have say five assumptions that could give the resultant graph and you say only this one will do it, you are a fool or perhaps an activist.

Which one are you? Wink


The other factors are the ones that you posted ?

How does it work ?

You post other factors and Hoo OooH haaaa. it is meaningful.

I post other factors and it is meaningless ?
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #71 - May 14th, 2019 at 8:46pm
 
Dnarever wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 8:43pm:
I post other factors and it is meaningless ?



Which other factors petal?

You mean this? -

Dnarever wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Power prices for households would fall by 2030 under four different scenarios modelled by Frontier Economics – business as usual and emissions reduction targets of 26%, 45% and 65%.

The research says the price reductions would vary state-by-state, but business as usual would result in an average saving of 18.5%.


Power prices would drop under business as usual? In other words without a carbon tax?
So why is a carbon tax so good again?
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freediver
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #72 - May 17th, 2019 at 8:56pm
 
lee wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 3:29pm:
freediver wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 7:00am:
It's what the terms mean Lee.


Really? Where did you find price sensitivity defined in terms of carbon tax? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

freediver wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 7:00am:
Bluffing doesn't make you look any less stupid.



No but it makes you look more stupid. Wink


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Quote:
Price elasticities are almost always negative, although analysts tend to ignore the sign even though this can lead to ambiguity. Only goods which do not conform to the law of demand, such as Veblen and Giffen goods, have a positive PED. In general, the demand for a good is said to be inelastic (or relatively inelastic) when the PED is less than one (in absolute value): that is, changes in price have a relatively small effect on the quantity of the good demanded. The demand for a good is said to be elastic (or relatively elastic) when its PED is greater than one.


In other words, you harped on for pages with two terms you had just googled to argue that carbon taxes may or may not reduce emissions, without realising that both terms imply they would.

So now you are retreating to gibberish. Try and actually say something Lee.
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lee
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #73 - May 17th, 2019 at 9:26pm
 
freediver wrote on May 17th, 2019 at 8:56pm:
In other words, you harped on for pages with two terms you had just googled to argue that carbon taxes may or may not reduce emissions, without realising that both terms imply they would.


You rely on wiki?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Try an economics book. Wink

Now go back and read what I wrote. About some prices being LARGELY inelastic.

BTW - Did  you read what DNA wrote but didn't actually comprehend?

lee wrote on May 14th, 2019 at 8:46pm:
Dnarever wrote on May 13th, 2019 at 7:20pm:
Power prices for households would fall by 2030 under four different scenarios modelled by Frontier Economics – business as usual and emissions reduction targets of 26%, 45% and 65%.

The research says the price reductions would vary state-by-state, but business as usual would result in an average saving of 18.5%.


So we have even a no carbon tax giving us a good outcome.

So what is the imperative for a carbon tax again? Why would it be "the best"?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: carbon taxes are the best
Reply #74 - May 17th, 2019 at 9:42pm
 
And do you know?

He's learned everything from you, FD.

It is a jolly world, no?
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