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Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic (Read 4983 times)
aquascoot
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Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Mar 25th, 2019 at 6:44am
 
Credit to Oxfam’s communications team. Each year, riding on the coattails of the jamboree in Davos, they manage to make a huge splash about global wealth inequality.

And every year, it is pointed that, as Tim Worstall explained on CapX last January, wealth is not some fixed pie. It is usually accumulated through entrepreneurial activity that fulfils wants and needs, enhancing global welfare. Sadly, most readers who pay only a passing interest in the story will miss this nuance and receive claims such as “82 per cent of all wealth created in the last year went to the top 1 per cent” with the shock they are designed to trigger.

Oxfam is, of course, a development charity. Their implicit message, amplified through major broadcasting outlets such as the BBC, is that the wealth of global rich causes the poverty of the poor. But where exactly is the evidence that more interventionist government is the way to reduce global poverty? In fact, recent economic history suggests the opposite: global poverty has plummeted as major countries have liberalised and ceased trying to “manage” their economies in the way Oxfam wants.

It would bad enough if Oxfam’s ideological bias was blinding the organisation to what works in the fight against poverty. But the charity also appears to be playing fast and loose with the facts. Take just one of the claims in their report, subsequently republished on the BBC website. Oxfam makes the astonishing claim that “two-thirds of billionaires’ wealth is the product of inheritance, monopoly and cronyism”. Given previous assessments by Forbes, Wealth-X and others have found that around 60 per cent of American billionaires are “self-made,” this seems a particularly striking statistic, in which monopolies and cronyism are doing a lot of heavy lifting.

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aquascoot
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #1 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 6:45am
 
60 % of americas billionaires are self made !!!!!!!!!
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philperth2010
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #2 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:02am
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 6:45am:
60 % of americas billionaires are self made !!!!!!!!!


America is not the whole world mate....If you want to discredit something it is best you quote facts that actually mean something???

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #3 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am
 
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.

i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #4 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 10:49am
 
They should be mounting that horse and showing disdain for the lesser beings.... a man on a horse...
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #5 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 10:52am
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am:
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.


i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


How so - in detail???

a) by reducing wealth and standards across the board by diluting the 'better' countries to suit the 'lesser countries', and creating a general level of 'wealth' at a lower level for the majority.

b) taxing those who earn income properly is not over-regulation by any stretch of the imagination.  You need to explain in full detail what these 'regulations' are that are currently causing such angst for the global economy.  At the moment it is essentially unregulated... but that needs to change since the GE is destructive of nations and peoples to suit the pockets of a few.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #6 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 10:54am
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 6:45am:
60 % of americas billionaires are self made !!!!!!!!!


What were their tactics?  What did they create?  What process did they use?  Were they ethical in doing so?  How many of them did a Kennedy etc and get a start from illegal activity?  What fields do they operate in?  What is their contribution to society?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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aquascoot
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #7 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 11:11am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 10:52am:
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am:
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.


i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


How so - in detail???

a) by reducing wealth and standards across the board by diluting the 'better' countries to suit the 'lesser countries', and creating a general level of 'wealth' at a lower level for the majority.

b) taxing those who earn income properly is not over-regulation by any stretch of the imagination.  You need to explain in full detail what these 'regulations' are that are currently causing such angst for the global economy.  At the moment it is essentially unregulated... but that needs to change since the GE is destructive of nations and peoples to suit the pockets of a few.



thats exactly what I'm trying to get across to you graps.

you think there is a "limited " pile of cash and when Bill Gates has billions, he must have taken that from someone else.
but the ammount of wealth is unlimited.
when Bill CREATES billions, THATS NEW WEALTH we can all enjoy Smiley Smiley Smiley.

when we let entrepreneurs be creative, the worlds wealth increases for all.

when John Deere bring out a new super tractor and Monsanto bring out a new GM wheat that is more drought resistant, then they have CREATED NEW WEALTH.  its NEW CASH.  they dont steal it or scam it off the farmers, they ADD TO THE PIE.

if you arent doing well personally, dont be mad at these corporations because they are literally harvesting $$$$ bills and you are going to get some

REJOICE  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #8 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 11:17am
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 11:11am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 10:52am:
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am:
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.


i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


How so - in detail???

a) by reducing wealth and standards across the board by diluting the 'better' countries to suit the 'lesser countries', and creating a general level of 'wealth' at a lower level for the majority.

b) taxing those who earn income properly is not over-regulation by any stretch of the imagination.  You need to explain in full detail what these 'regulations' are that are currently causing such angst for the global economy.  At the moment it is essentially unregulated... but that needs to change since the GE is destructive of nations and peoples to suit the pockets of a few.



thats exactly what I'm trying to get across to you graps.

you think there is a "limited " pile of cash and when Bill Gates has billions, he must have taken that from someone else.
but the ammount of wealth is unlimited.
when Bill CREATES billions, THATS NEW WEALTH we can all enjoy Smiley Smiley Smiley.

when we let entrepreneurs be creative, the worlds wealth increases for all.

when John Deere bring out a new super tractor and Monsanto bring out a new GM wheat that is more drought resistant, then they have CREATED NEW WEALTH.  its NEW CASH.  they dont steal it or scam it off the farmers, they ADD TO THE PIE.

if you arent doing well personally, dont be mad at these corporations because they are literally harvesting $$$$ bills and you are going to get some

REJOICE  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



when Bill CREATES billions, THATS NEW WEALTH we can all enjoy

Isn't that socialism?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #9 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 11:29am
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 11:11am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 10:52am:
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am:
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.


i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


How so - in detail???

a) by reducing wealth and standards across the board by diluting the 'better' countries to suit the 'lesser countries', and creating a general level of 'wealth' at a lower level for the majority.

b) taxing those who earn income properly is not over-regulation by any stretch of the imagination.  You need to explain in full detail what these 'regulations' are that are currently causing such angst for the global economy.  At the moment it is essentially unregulated... but that needs to change since the GE is destructive of nations and peoples to suit the pockets of a few.



thats exactly what I'm trying to get across to you graps.

you think there is a "limited " pile of cash and when Bill Gates has billions, he must have taken that from someone else.
but the ammount of wealth is unlimited.
when Bill CREATES billions, THATS NEW WEALTH we can all enjoy Smiley Smiley Smiley.

when we let entrepreneurs be creative, the worlds wealth increases for all.

when John Deere bring out a new super tractor and Monsanto bring out a new GM wheat that is more drought resistant, then they have CREATED NEW WEALTH.  its NEW CASH.  they dont steal it or scam it off the farmers, they ADD TO THE PIE.

if you arent doing well personally, dont be mad at these corporations because they are literally harvesting $$$$ bills and you are going to get some

REJOICE  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


My point was 'what did they actually create that was of benefit' - Gates created Microsoft - good call...

What about the others?  and I don;t assume there is a defined 'pile of money' at all - I merely ask the questions about why, when, where and how people can make such amounts.

Also bear in mind that is their 'worth' calculated on many things - many a billionaire has fallen by the wayside by being a 'billionaire' without substance.  It's all tied up and when the manure strikes the air propulsion device many are not worth the paper their wealth is written on, and their value is only that of the fire sale that results.

Look at the major billionaire companies that go broke - the average punter looks on aghast and asks:-  "How did they manage that with all those billions floating around?"  a. Bad management and seeking a bigger and bigger piece of pie instead of consolidating and then moving on.  they spread themselves into 'good things' that turn out to be lemons and splatter their money around in pursuit of more and more when sufficient is already on the table.

Happened to a company I worked for (with - I can be generous with my time and effort) - I watched aghast as they went further and further into the rarified atmosphere, competing with essentially parasite companies that didn't pay fully etc and in quite a different sphere of operations, and then the management, who refused to listen to anyone else in their hubris but instead targeted those people, shaking their heads in disbelief when yet another 'initiative' failed, losing them escalating amounts of money.

Can't train fools... idiots I can train to the limits of their ability - but fools?  Never....
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #10 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 2:16pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 6:45am:
60 % of americas billionaires are self made !!!!!!!!!


Where does your 60% come from, dear? I'm curious.
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #11 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 2:28pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am:
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.

i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


On going action by govt that regulates/controls workers wealth to the benefit of those erroneously so called noble wealth creators is ongoing globally and is like parasites taking from many angles.

Keeping people in their place and under control by fear, debt and reliance.

Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #12 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 3:12pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 2:28pm:
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am:
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.

i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


On going action by govt that regulates/controls workers wealth to the benefit of those erroneously so called noble wealth creators is ongoing globally and is like parasites taking from many angles.

Keeping people in their place and under control by fear, debt and reliance.

Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely.


Very true. Aquascoot's got it the wrong way around. It's governments who facilitate wealth creation through croneyism.

The more wealth you have, the more you're able to create monopolies. Microsoft is an excellent example of this, now being superceded by the Amazons and Facebooks.

Microsoft developed the model - pirate or buy up the competition. It's almost too easy.

This, of course, was in an unregulated market. It's even easier in China, Russia and the developing world, where you just have to make friends with those in power.

Just look at the results: Putin's one of the richest leaders in the world now, up there with the Marcoses and Shinawatras and Suhatos and Gaddafis and on and on. The big risk for dictators, of course, is revolutions. It's rumoured that Putin stared at the footage of Gaddafi's killing for hours - not unlike Hitler, who vowed he'd never go the way of Mussolini, who's hanged corpse image went viral in its time.

Their cronies fear the same, but from their Dear Leaders. Putin's oligarchs know what happens to those who complain.
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aquascoot
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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #13 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 4:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 3:12pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 2:28pm:
aquascoot wrote on Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:14am:
global wealth creation benefits all.
wealth creation by entrepreneurs is what is raising global living standards.
attempts by government to regulate our noble wealth creators are examples of governments shooting themselves in the foot.

i think i understand this very well  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


On going action by govt that regulates/controls workers wealth to the benefit of those erroneously so called noble wealth creators is ongoing globally and is like parasites taking from many angles.

Keeping people in their place and under control by fear, debt and reliance.

Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely.


Very true. Aquascoot's got it the wrong way around. It's governments who facilitate wealth creation through croneyism.

The more wealth you have, the more you're able to create monopolies. Microsoft is an excellent example of this, now being superceded by the Amazons and Facebooks.

Microsoft developed the model - pirate or buy up the competition. It's almost too easy.

This, of course, was in an unregulated market. It's even easier in China, Russia and the developing world, where you just have to make friends with those in power.

Just look at the results: Putin's one of the richest leaders in the world now, up there with the Marcoses and Shinawatras and Suhatos and Gaddafis and on and on. The big risk for dictators, of course, is revolutions. It's rumoured that Putin stared at the footage of Gaddafi's killing for hours - not unlike Hitler, who vowed he'd never go the way of Mussolini, who's hanged corpse image went viral in its time.

Their cronies fear the same, but from their Dear Leaders. Putin's oligarchs know what happens to those who complain.



no, you have it wrong.
wealth is created out of thin air by creative people.
governments create virtually none of it.

say you are sitting on a beach in hawaii 60 years ago.
there no surfing industry,  theres a few dudes having fun but no wealth is being created.

now some entrepreneur starts the billabong pro circuit, the quicksilver pro.
now there is money jobs, an industry in boards, an industry in fashion, an nindustry in film and in magazines.
there is travel and accomodation and all the flow on wealth created out of nothing.


your model would be that those nasty entreprenuers that started this industry "stole all the waves"
they "hoarded the waves' and they didnt leave any waves for the little guys.

its all a lie you tell yourself to cover your own inaction and lack of creativity.
and governments are just as inactive and lacking in creativity.

they 'react', they dont "act".

and there are 1000's of such industries that have created billions of dollars out of nothing.

good grief man,  no one ate avacado til 30 years ago.
now its a billion dollars of wealth created out of nothing.

did bob hawke plant the trees and start the brunch cafe culture, did paul keating set up the eateries.

look around yourself and open your eyes.

do something more productive then be jealous of russian oligarchs

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Re: Oxfams (and socialists) Incorrect Logic
Reply #14 - Mar 25th, 2019 at 7:22pm
 
The oligarchs got their wealth from their connection with Putin, dear. He got them interest-free loans to buy all those privatised state industries. The oligarchs, you see, also own the Russian banks.

People don't create things out of thin air, they borrow capital to buy resources and make things for others to buy.

And in the case of technical innovation (creating things out of thin air), people invest, they employ engineers, they buy patents. Windows, for example, was knocked off from IBM, then patented, then marketed, and then monopolised. All technological innovation is developed by a diverse range of parties and workers. The winner is the one left with the property rights. No entrepreneur does anything on their own.

But that's a moot point. Most supply is stuff pulled out of the ground and sold - oil, tobacco, corn, soy. The Indonesian clove market was simply given to Suharto's son - a global monopoly. Ask Donald Trump how Moscow or Manhattan property development is allocated, or how Atlantic City casino licenses are approved.

Mr Trump, remember, borrowed his money from banks and junk bond investors. When he lost his shirt, the banks wrote it off. Mr Trump kept the New York skyscraper with the gold lift just for Mr Trump. He kept the helicopter, the limousines, the private jet.

You're right, the private sector creates wealth out of thin air, but it does so on paper. Mr Trump, as you know, was being given hundreds of millions a year in tax-free trust funds by his billionaire father.

You've explained the formula yourself, dear: to he who has more, more shall be given.

So I'm curious. Where does your idea that 60% of wealthy people are self-made come from?

We're not going to have to expose another fake statistic again, are we?

Please at least make up a good story this time, Aquascoot.
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