Australian Politics Forum - What is Islam?

freediver

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What is Islam?
Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:24pm

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:08pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 8:50am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:23pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

It's what the Quran says Gandalf.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1469837313

If you are trying to distinguish between what the Quran says and what Muslims believe, then you are doing what you accuse Set of.

If you say "this is what the quran says" and a muslim says "I disagree - it actually says this"

What then is "Islam"?

Also, there is no distinction between "Islam" and "what muslims believe". None whatsoever.

If you rewrite the Quran, it is a different religion Gandalf.

Thats not answering the question FD.

Its a simple concept: if you say Islam is one thing, and muslims tell you no, we believe Islam is not that, but rather this...

what then, is actually 'Islam'

- is it what you, a non-muslim backed by a tiny minority of muslim extremists say it is, or is it what the vast majority of muslims say it is?

Islam is what is in the Quran. All your spin doctoring does not change that, and you lose all credibility when you casually change what the Quran says all the time. Not even other Muslims believe you. You do not speak for the vast majority of Muslims, you are merely their apologist. They ban you from their forums.

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 7:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:28pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:19pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:17pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:08pm:

Islam is what is in the Quran.

Absolute garbage.

What is your version of Islam?

Certainly not what you insist is in the Quran.

What is your version of Islam?

Gandalf? Were you asking me what Islam is because you do not know?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: What is Islam? Reply #1 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD. Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe. Do you see the problem with that?
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Yadda

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #2 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:37pm

'What is Islam?'

look here.....

------- >

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1424590530/17#17
Quote:

The heart of ISLAM is the Koran

[and at the heart of the Koran, is the ideas and ideals it contains].

SO WHAT DOES THE KORAN SAY ABOUT MOSLEMS LIVING IN PEACE WITH DISBELIEVERS ? ;

---------- >

[just a small sample...]

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

WHAT MOHAMMED SAID.....

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06

ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."

.

'What is Islam?'

look here.....

------- >

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1536141258/46#46

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1534830555/0#0

and here....

Yadda said....
The trouble, with allowing moslem migration
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1550183828/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47346 At my desk.	Re: What is Islam? Reply #3 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:41pm polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm: Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD. Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe. Do you see the problem with that? Do Muslims believe it is what is in the Quran?
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Yadda

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #4 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 7:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

gandalf,

Do you believe that ISLAM is a peace-loving faith ?

You seem to be promoting that opinion, as your own. ....yes ?

Oh, well, everything is OK then.

It is only those moslems who promote hatred and violence against disbelievers [as being a fundamental part of their faith], that we need to be worried about.

And we all know, there are not ANY of those, here in Australia !

/sarc off

.

IMAGE...

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami

Quote:

How Circumstance Dictates Islamic Behavior

January 18, 2012

Preach Peace When Weak, Wage War When Strong

"...all notions of peace with non-Muslims are based on circumstance.

When Muslims are weak, they should be peaceful; when strong, they should go on the offensive."

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...

.

Quote:

Live in peace till strong enough to wage jihad, says UK Deoband scholar to Muslims

London, Sept.8 [2007]

A Deobandi scholar believes Muslims should preach peace till they are strong enough to undertake a jihad, or a holy war.

Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani was quoted by the BBC as saying that Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle.

A former Sharia judge in Pakistan's Supreme Court, 64-year-old Usmani, is...a regular visitor to Britain.
Polite and softly spoken....

He agreed that it was wrong to suggest that the entire non-Muslim world was intent on destroying Islam, but justifies an aggressive military jihad as a means of establishing global Islamic supremacy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2409833.ece

.

Quote:

A Study in Muslim Doctrine

"...while sincere friendship with non-Muslims is forbidden,

insincere friendship - whenever beneficial to Muslims - is not."

http://www.meforum.org/2512/nidal-hasan-fort-hood-muslim-doctrine

.

Google,

we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

.

Quote:

July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels

...Robert Spencer, ..."Religious deception of unbelievers is indeed taught by the Qur'an itself:

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them"
(Qur'an 3:28).

In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them": pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that this verse teaches that if "believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers," they may "show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly."

Google

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #5 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 7:29pm

]List of Killings in the Name of Islam for 2019 is: 384 Islamic attacks in 33 countries, in which 2124 people were killed and 2079 injured.

List of Killings in the Name of Islam for 2018: 1976 Islamic attacks in 54 countries, in which 11769 people were killed and 11483 injured.

List of Killings in the Name of Islam for 2017: 2045 Islamic attacks in 61 countries, in which 16387 people were killed and 14362 injured.

List of Killings in the Name of Islam for 2016: 2498 Islamic attacks in 59 countries, in which 21413 people were killed and 26730 injured.

islamic terror murder count for the last 3.25 years is: 51693 people slaughtered by muslims and 54654 wounded.

On average, in the last 3.25 years muslims have slaughtered 15906 people per year and wounded 16817 people per year.

The above is proof positive that islam is a death cult.

muslims slaughter innocent people while shouting their praises to the beefed up moon god allah.

muslims offer their efforts to slaughter innocent people up, as an offering of blessed behaviour to allah.

The above in anyones' language is nothing more than human sacrifice to allah.

The qur'an is a book of muslim supremacy over all other people.

islam is not suitable as a 21st century belief, as evidenced with the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who have been slaughtered by muslims since the start of the 21st century.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #6 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 7:54pm

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

Do Muslims believe it is what is in the Quran?

They believe its what their interpretation of the Quran is, not yours. I feel I need to point this distinction out to you FD because you come out with claims like violence is demanded in the Quran, and this is what Islam is - and yet according to your favourite pew survey, the vast majority of muslims don't agree with you:

Quote:

Muslims around the world strongly reject
violence in the name of Islam. Asked
specifically about suicide bombing, clear
majorities in most countries say such acts are
rarely or never justified as a means of
defending Islam from its enemies.
In most countries where the question was
asked, roughly three-quarters or more
Muslims reject suicide bombing and other
forms of violence against civilians. And in
most countries, the prevailing view is that such
acts are never justified as a means of
defending Islam from its enemies.

pdf from https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society...

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Brian Ross

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #7 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 9:05pm

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

Do Muslims believe it is what is in the Quran?

Do Christians believe their religion is what is in the Bible, FD?

Or have they created alternative interpretations which allow them to get away with oppression, murder, rape, slavery, etc.?

Don't bother answering with another question, 'cause we know that is what you specialise in. We all know the answer anyway. Christianity, like Islam has at it's core, the holy book in which it's prophet's views are supposedly written. Whether or not they are followed explicitly, is another matter.

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Frank

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #8 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 9:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

What happens to Islam when Muslims belive it to be different to what other Muslims belive it to be.

Jihad, endless murdering, worldwide terrorism.

What is NOT HAPPENNING AND NEVER WILL is that Muslims sit down and discuss and come to an agreement about Islam.

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Brian Ross

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #9 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 10:08pm

Frank wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 9:43pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

What happens to Islam when Muslims belive it to be different to what other Muslims belive it to be.

Jihad, endless murdering, worldwide terrorism.

What is NOT HAPPENNING AND NEVER WILL is that Muslims sit down and discuss and come to an agreement about Islam.

What I find interesting is how the Sunnis and the Sh'ites and the other denominations of Islam, all manage to do the exact opposite to what you claim they should be doing in Australian, Soren. I've never heard of a, "Jihad, endless murdering, worldwide Terrorism," anywhere in Australian society. Funny that. Roll Eyes

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issuevoter

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #10 - Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 10:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

Line 1: Correct. Including ISIS et al.

Line 2: Really? Most of we Infidels go on what the Koran and Muzlums insist.

Line 3: Yes. Even putting aside the ridiculous assumtion of you as God's chosen people, but most especially when what Muzlums believe (See your line 1.) ends up getting we Infidels killed or maimed.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #11 - Mar 23^rd, 2019 at 12:28am

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:08pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 8:50am:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:23pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

It's what the Quran says Gandalf.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1469837313

If you are trying to distinguish between what the Quran says and what Muslims believe, then you are doing what you accuse Set of.

If you say "this is what the quran says" and a muslim says "I disagree - it actually says this"

What then is "Islam"?

Also, there is no distinction between "Islam" and "what muslims believe". None whatsoever.

If you rewrite the Quran, it is a different religion Gandalf.

Thats not answering the question FD.

Its a simple concept: if you say Islam is one thing, and muslims tell you no, we believe Islam is not that, but rather this...

what then, is actually 'Islam'

- is it what you, a non-muslim backed by a tiny minority of muslim extremists say it is, or is it what the vast majority of muslims say it is?

Islam is what is in the Quran. All your spin doctoring does not change that, and you lose all credibility when you casually change what the Quran says all the time. Not even other Muslims believe you. You do not speak for the vast majority of Muslims, you are merely their apologist. They ban you from their forums.

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 7:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:28pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:19pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:17pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 20^th, 2019 at 1:08pm:

Islam is what is in the Quran.

Absolute garbage.

What is your version of Islam?

Certainly not what you insist is in the Quran.

What is your version of Islam?

Gandalf? Were you asking me what Islam is because you do not know?

Do you you know what you are, FD?

You're curious. You're a seeker of truth.

Fallah once said we're all Muslims. What do you think?

What is your version of Islam?

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freediver

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #12 - Mar 23^rd, 2019 at 7:06am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 7:54pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

Do Muslims believe it is what is in the Quran?

They believe its what their interpretation of the Quran is, not yours. I feel I need to point this distinction out to you FD because you come out with claims like violence is demanded in the Quran, and this is what Islam is - and yet according to your favourite pew survey, the vast majority of muslims don't agree with you:

Quote:

Muslims around the world strongly reject
violence in the name of Islam. Asked
specifically about suicide bombing, clear
majorities in most countries say such acts are
rarely or never justified as a means of
defending Islam from its enemies.
In most countries where the question was
asked, roughly three-quarters or more
Muslims reject suicide bombing and other
forms of violence against civilians. And in
most countries, the prevailing view is that such
acts are never justified as a means of
defending Islam from its enemies.

pdf from https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society...

So Islam actually is what is in the Quran?

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Yadda

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #13 - Mar 23^rd, 2019 at 8:55am

freediver wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2019 at 7:06am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 7:54pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:41pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2019 at 6:33pm:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

Whereas you insist its what you, a non-muslim believes it is, even when (or especially when) it totally contradicts what muslims actually believe.

Do you see the problem with that?

Do Muslims believe it is what is in the Quran?

They believe its what their interpretation of the Quran is, not yours. I feel I need to point this distinction out to you FD because you come out with claims like violence is demanded in the Quran, and this is what Islam is - and yet according to your favourite pew survey, the vast majority of muslims don't agree with you:

Quote:

Muslims around the world strongly reject
violence in the name of Islam. Asked
specifically about suicide bombing, clear
majorities in most countries say such acts are
rarely or never justified as a means of
defending Islam from its enemies.
In most countries where the question was
asked, roughly three-quarters or more
Muslims reject suicide bombing and other
forms of violence against civilians. And in
most countries, the prevailing view is that such
acts are never justified as a means of
defending Islam from its enemies.

pdf from https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society...

So Islam actually is what is in the Quran?

That is much too much, to commit to FD.

Once gandalf admits that, all his, "I follow a peaceful version of ISLAM.", argument will be shown to be a complete sham.

This, is what ISLAM is.....

WWW search....
"Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads"

But it is 'a bridge to far', for any follower of ISLAM, to admit that [is true], to any infidel.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: What is Islam?
Reply #14 - Mar 23^rd, 2019 at 2:50pm

Reply #1 - Yesterday at 6:33pm
Quote:

Islam is what a muslim believes it is FD.

As of today there have been over 34,768 muslim terrorist attacks since 9/11/01

In the last thirty days from today, there have been 121 Islamic attacks in 21 countries, in which 726 people were killed and 786 injured.

It's blindingly obvious that there are muslims who totally believe that islam is a death cult and their highest duty is jihad against the non believers.

When are the *moderate* muslims going to renounce all the evil in the qur'an which causes muslims to believe that blood soaked jihad is the one true path?

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