freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:23pm:



how many times have the Christian bibles been rewritten?  Are they not still Christian?

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:46pm:


If you rewrite the Quran, it is a different religion Gandalf.

Setanta wrote on Mar 18^th, 2019 at 7:56pm:


Setanta evidently thinks this position is palatable to a diverse, accepting and civilized society.

It is not.

It is deeply condescending and prejudiced.

You are not fooling anyone with your euphemisms like "ideology", in an attempt to distinguish a person's personal beliefs from who they really are. They are one in the same - 'ideology' is not some magical entity that exists in some void totally isolated from the people who created and adhere to said ideology. Beliefs are are what makes and defines a person - its as simple as that. So please stop with this transparent nonsense that someone can be a wonderful, kind upstanding person, while at the same time adhere to beliefs that you clearly see as primitive and dangerous.

And once you come to this realisation, you might actually consider alternatives to such blanket broad brushing like "Islam demands violence from it's followers". Yes, broad brushing - a term that might surprise you in this context, given it is typically used in relation to people. But thats exactly the point - 'Islam' *IS* 'people'. 'Ideology' *IS* 'people'. You can't separate them. How could you? As in, 'Islam' to ~2 billion muslims are 2 billion different things. It is not one big monlithic unchanging entity that magically exists outside the identity and personality of people.

Now back to your prejudice: given that ideology/beliefs are inseparable to a person's identity, your position that "I blame Islam not the people" - in relation to your broadbrushing that "Islam demands violence", really comes down to one of two possibilities: 1. muslims don't really believe that Islam demands violence - in which case you are saying you know better about people's own beliefs - or in other words, you think muslims are dribbling idiots who can't even comprehend their own religion. Or 2. they actually do believe they must carry out violence, but restrain themselves for whatever reason - in which case these people are deeply sinister. Neither of these two possibilities is at all compatible with your claim that these people can still be lovely people - or if it does, its only in a deeply condescending way - as in a "awww isn't it sweet these imbecile/primitives try and be nice" kind of way.

We saw a mixture of these two playing out in the shameful reactions to Yasmin Abdel-Magied daring to suggest that *TO HER* Islam is the most feminist religion. All the vitriol she received from this stemmed from either assuming, patronisingly, that she was ignorant about her own religion (a complete contradiction in terms when you think about it), or that she was straight out lying - as of course muslims must do, doncha know? What she was singularly denied - including amongst progressives I might add - was agency as a thinking human being who actually has personal beliefs of her own. No, of course, "Islam" was then, and remains something only that is a set in stone monolithic entity magically devoid of any individual's personal interpretation and beliefs.

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:32pm:



you didn't answer the question.

Grandalf is very polite these days, and Muslims are lovely people.

I can feel the love.

John Smith wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:33pm:


Yes, it was a particularly stupid question. Do you have more?

Why do you think Muslims are so unique in trying to hide and misrepresent the contents of the Quran?