Australian Politics Forum - muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop

mothra

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #15 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:36am:

Setanta wrote on Mar 18^th, 2019 at 7:56pm:

I'm happy to tell you about how friendly I am Muslims, well the couple I know. I've said many times, to no avail obviously, I can differentiate between people and ideology. I have friends of all sorts with differing theologies or ideologies. My Baha'i friends know of my view on god as do my Christian friends. I don't live in a vacuum. I don't equate them with their ideology, people are more than that. It's open season on their ideology though.

Islam demands violence from it's followers even though most will not give it. I blame Islam, not the people.

Setanta evidently thinks this position is palatable to a diverse, accepting and civilized society.

It is not.

It is deeply condescending and prejudiced.

You are not fooling anyone with your euphemisms like "ideology", in an attempt to distinguish a person's personal beliefs from who they really are. They are one in the same - 'ideology' is not some magical entity that exists in some void totally isolated from the people who created and adhere to said ideology. Beliefs are are what makes and defines a person - its as simple as that. So please stop with this transparent nonsense that someone can be a wonderful, kind upstanding person, while at the same time adhere to beliefs that you clearly see as primitive and dangerous.

And once you come to this realisation, you might actually consider alternatives to such blanket broad brushing like "Islam demands violence from it's followers". Yes, broad brushing - a term that might surprise you in this context, given it is typically used in relation to people. But thats exactly the point - 'Islam' *IS* 'people'. 'Ideology' *IS* 'people'. You can't separate them. How could you? As in, 'Islam' to ~2 billion muslims are 2 billion different things. It is not one big monlithic unchanging entity that magically exists outside the identity and personality of people.

Now back to your prejudice: given that ideology/beliefs are inseparable to a person's identity, your position that "I blame Islam not the people" - in relation to your broadbrushing that "Islam demands violence", really comes down to one of two possibilities: 1. muslims don't really believe that Islam demands violence - in which case you are saying you know better about people's own beliefs - or in other words, you think muslims are dribbling idiots who can't even comprehend their own religion. Or 2. they actually do believe they must carry out violence, but restrain themselves for whatever reason - in which case these people are deeply sinister. Neither of these two possibilities is at all compatible with your claim that these people can still be lovely people - or if it does, its only in a deeply condescending way - as in a "awww isn't it sweet these imbecile/primitives try and be nice" kind of way.

We saw a mixture of these two playing out in the shameful reactions to Yasmin Abdel-Magied daring to suggest that *TO HER* Islam is the most feminist religion. All the vitriol she received from this stemmed from either assuming, patronisingly, that she was ignorant about her own religion (a complete contradiction in terms when you think about it), or that she was straight out lying - as of course muslims must do, doncha know? What she was singularly denied - including amongst progressives I might add - was agency as a thinking human being who actually has personal beliefs of her own. No, of course, "Islam" was then, and remains something only that is a set in stone monolithic entity magically devoid of any individual's personal interpretation and beliefs.

Thank you for taking the time to put so eloquently into words a far more detailed explanation of what i have been debating with Setanta for some years now.

Even back when he looked more favourably on me than he now does, he was intractable.

Perhaps you may get through. I believe at his core, he is a good man.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Yadda

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #16 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

It's what the Quran says Gandalf.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1469837313

If you are trying to distinguish between what the Quran says and what Muslims believe, then you are doing what you accuse Set of.

If you say "this is what the quran says" and a muslim says "I disagree - it actually says this"

If anyone abandons their religion [ISLAM], and if he 'bad mouths' ISLAM, kill him.

This is what Allah actually says.....

"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-"
Koran 4.88, 89

And i don't see any exemption or exceptions, being mentioned gandalf ?

But hey, that's just me.

Yadda, the simple.

Allah's Apostle also concurs with Allah.

"...the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

.

But we all know, that it is only the superior moslems, who are willing to contradict Allah, and Allah's Apostle.

Both Allah and Allah's Apostle, and those ignorant infidels, are the ones who so, so unenlightened.

Q.
Is that what you tell you imam gandalf ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34507 Gender:	Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop Reply #17 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:43pm Yadda on the other hand .... no hope; dictionary definition
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Yadda

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #18 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:56pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:51pm:

Do Christians still get stoned for adultery?

No, but Christians do get murdered by moslems, all over the world, everyday.

Everyday ?

have a look here -------- >

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

But why are Christians being murdered by moslems ?

It is a mystery to us all. !!!!!

.

ARGUMENT;
There is no ISLAMIC source which has more authority or influence upon ISLAMIC law and upon the actions of moslems in following their faith, than the Holy Koran.

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

.

"ISLAM ES PAZ"

IMAGE.....

Everyone knows that true ISLAM, is a religion of peace.

/sarc off

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 13817 In your happy place Gender:	Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator Reply #19 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:59pm Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator. Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost idiot.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131477 Gender:	Re: Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator Reply #20 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 2:07pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:59pm: Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator. Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost idiot. You make a good argument, but I still say he has some mighty stiff competition in both categories.
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Yadda

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #21 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 2:13pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:12pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:51pm:

Do Christians still get stoned for adultery?

What about wearing cloth of differing types?

Old books are not taken literally by the vast majority of "believers".

BTW ... I'm an atheist myself.

Why not ? It's in their old book isn't it ?

That is an invalid comparison/argument. [that O.T. law., is comparable to ISLAMIC law.]

nail,

I presume that you understand very well, that British and Australian law, does not follow 'Moses laws', which were those laws given to the ancient Israelites, around 3,400 years ago ?

Today, and for many centuries, many Western nations make and follow the laws which are constituted by men, in the parliaments of those nations.

With ISLAM/moslem, that application, of laws being constituted by men [in the parliaments] does not apply.

Every moslem knows, that ISLAMIC law, from Allah,

is the most superior law in the world,

and every moslem [worthy of the name] will agree, that all men should and ought, to obey ISLAMIC law.

.....WHICH STILL ENCOURAGES THE FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM, TO FIGHT AND TO KILL DISBELIEVERS.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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greggerypeccary

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #22 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 2:15pm

Yadda wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 2:13pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:12pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:51pm:

Do Christians still get stoned for adultery?

What about wearing cloth of differing types?

Old books are not taken literally by the vast majority of "believers".

BTW ... I'm an atheist myself.

Why not ? It's in their old book isn't it ?

That is an invalid comparison/argument. [that O.T. law., is comparable to ISLAMIC law.]

Hands up if you saw that one coming.

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 20956 A cat with a view	Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop Reply #23 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 2:21pm @ #22 That looks like a Hilltop Hoods concert ! Cool Yadda.
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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 20956 A cat with a view	Re: Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator Reply #24 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 2:24pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:59pm: Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator. Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost idiot. Aaaaaaw, whats wrong diddums ?
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Mattyfisk

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #25 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 2:26pm

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:57am:

Quote:

And once you come to this realisation, you might actually consider alternatives to such blanket broad brushing like "Islam demands violence from it's followers".

That's what the Quran says Gandalf. Putting on the hysterics and trying to make it a personal attack doesn't change the facts.

Do you have a problem with stupid people?

I don't, FD, I just have a problem with smart people who don't like reading to the end of a sentence:

"... but if he asks, grant him protection till he hears the words of God; then do thou convey him to his place of security – that, because they are a people who do not know."

You?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 80205 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator Reply #26 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 4:10pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 1:59pm: Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost Muslim hate propagator. Yadda: Ozpolitic's foremost idiot. OzPol Vigilance Commission strikes
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issuevoter

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #27 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:01pm

The Human Race has a propensity for idiotic concepts, and no group or sub-group gets off unscathed. The big three Abrahamic religions are based on the lie that Abraham/Ibrahim was on intimate terms with God. The idiotic nature of Islam is that only the Muzlum has the moral and correct perception of reality. If you have not converted yet, you are an infidel, and unbeliever, and Mohamed, after talking to the angel Gabriel, left instructions in the Koran on how we infidels were to be dealt with.

Now, if you are a sensitive, new-age, progressive thinker, you probably want to be all inclusive of other people's beliefs. The problem is that you are still an inferior type of person according to the Koran. You have to accept Allah and Mohamed and the Koran. If not, you are an infidel, no matter how polite Muzlums are to you in a Western situation.

The other two Abrahamics are equally idiotic, the difference is that they have pretty much had their teeth pulled out.

Composed by an unGodly and unrepentant Infidel.

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freediver

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Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop
Reply #28 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 12:46pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

It's what the Quran says Gandalf.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1469837313

If you are trying to distinguish between what the Quran says and what Muslims believe, then you are doing what you accuse Set of.

If you say "this is what the quran says" and a muslim says "I disagree - it actually says this"

What then is "Islam"?

Also, there is no distinction between "Islam" and "what muslims believe". None whatsoever.

If you rewrite the Quran, it is a different religion Gandalf.

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: muslims are idiots - otherwise they're lovely peop Reply #29 - Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:29pm freediver wrote on Mar 19^th, 2019 at 9:23pm: If you rewrite the Quran, it is a different religion Gandalf. how many times have the Christian bibles been rewritten? Are they not still Christian?
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