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the capitalist socialist (Read 2004 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: the capitalist socialist
Reply #30 - Mar 21st, 2019 at 12:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:13pm:
When Gandalf first revealed he was a socialist, I asked what kind. It turns out he is the capitalist kind. It's hasn't really progressed from there. I think it's a bit like being a peace-loving Muslim.

He won't say if he made this crap up himself or is just parroting it from somewhere else. Perhaps he is embarrassed about where he got it from:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:20pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:23pm:
Gandalf, have you figure out yet whether "not starving" is the best that capitalism can offer?


Capitalism offers a lot FD, so long as you are the one at the top of the food chain. The veritable "one percenters" For everyone else? Not so much.


Yes, Gandalf did actually ponder that:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 3:00pm:
The point is, if the best capitalism can offer is "not starving", then its hardly a great selling point for it is it?


Gandalf the exploiter:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 at 9:57am:
And yes I would prefer the Bangladeshi garment workers are able to get slave-like work if it prevents them starving. And I would definitely continue to do my part to exploit them by buying my target shirts - so that at least something ends up in the meagre pockets of the exploited worker - as opposed to, you know, dying.


Oh no, Gandalf is taking their freedom:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 8th, 2019 at 7:43pm:
How is a garment worker in Bangladesh "free" when her choices are a) for her and her family to starve to death and b) work at unregulated exploitative shithole a, b or c that will pay you no more than you need to stay alive?

I note you mentioned previously non-slaves even have the option to travel to work. Wow, lucky them! Hey, half starving garment worker with no savings and the sole income for your whole family - you are free to take that non-existent car of yours and spend half your day driving yourself God-knows how many miles on unsealed dangerous roads- just so you can find a job just as crappy as the ones available in your village!


Indeed. Capitalist socialists are known in Australia and the mother country as Fabian Socialists.

In Europe, based on the writing of Karl Marx, they're known as social democrats.

You?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: the capitalist socialist
Reply #31 - Mar 21st, 2019 at 2:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 1:57pm:
The free market, entrepreneurship, private enterprise, whatever you want to call it, undeniably creates wealth for a society. This is a good thing and is to be welcomed and encouraged. However without government regulation, this wealth would go only to the business elites.


Where do you get this crap from Gandalf? Are you making it up on the spot?


From you, I think, FD.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: the capitalist socialist
Reply #32 - Mar 21st, 2019 at 2:09pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 3:34pm:
Pure capitalism doesn't exist. Every nations economy lives on a spectrum.
Every economy has some degree of socialism or it wouldn't work


Very true.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: the capitalist socialist
Reply #33 - Mar 21st, 2019 at 2:15pm
 
Spatchcock wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 10:23pm:
Cartalism and socialism are not necessarily contradictory terms.

You can have a free market economic system with a government that spends more on social services than necessary, essentially subsidising it, as we have in Australia.

Lots of people would describe Australia as socialist. It definitely has socialist policies. However, socialism is used as a dirty word by ideologies with conservative political leanings and military/government associations.

This is because the ideas of socialism are reflective of the ideas of communism, and communism was the enemy and a threat to the government maintaining confidence.

So again, ideas were very bad and needed to be suppressed, not because free healthcare is bad, but because socialism is communism and if people realised these good ideas are socialist then people might trust the government less due to "electoral interference".

This is why people campaign against socialism in high profile places. Because they are government lobbyists and influence agents.

There is no way you could say helping the needy is bad.

But they would rather you feel that this system is bad and watch the homeless freeze and starve than allow "electoral interference" to occur.

Everything the government does is for votes. Everything the government is advised to do by departments is for political stability.

The end.


Interestingly, for communists, socialism is only one step along the way - as is capitalism.

Lenin saw that Russia had not been through capitalism - they still, essentially, had a feudal economy. Lenin's initial policies were designed to be capitalist.

Lenin threw this away when he socialised agriculture. Small farmers, or Kulaks, were becoming too powerful for their own good.
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freediver
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Re: the capitalist socialist
Reply #34 - Mar 22nd, 2019 at 6:19pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 21st, 2019 at 11:13am:
ho hum, I tried...  Undecided


Did you try explaining where you get this crap from? Not sure what is so hard about that Gandalf.
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