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Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage (Read 3367 times)
whiteknight
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Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:30pm
 
Labor prepares to legislate a 'living wage' by changing the Fair Work Act   Smiley

March 12, 2019
Sydney Morning Herald
 

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten is preparing to legislate a "living wage" if he becomes prime minister, in a move that would boost minimum pay packets and embolden unions but alarm corporate Australia just two months out from the federal election.

Dismissing business leaders opposed to a rise as "fat cats", the Labor leader on Tuesday foreshadowed a change in the law to encourage the independent Fair Work Commission to set a higher minimum wage.   Smiley

Business threatened job losses within hours of Mr Shorten's comments, which have placed industrial relations firmly at the centre of the impending election campaign.


“It could see one person’s pay rise cost another person their job," Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chief executive James Pearson claimed.


“For more than a century, minimum wages have been set by an independent body - not the government, nor Parliament."

Mr Shorten is under pressure to increase the living wage amid a renewed push by the Australian Council of Trade Unions.

In its submission to the commission's annual minimum wage review to be lodged this week, the union peak body will demand an initial increase of 6 per cent from $719.20 to $762.20 - or $43 a week - for the 2.23 million Australian workers who depend on the minimum wage.

Under the plan, the rate would increase by 10.7 per cent over two years, bringing the minimum wage in line with the ACTU's "living wage" target of 60 per cent of the national median wage, or $852 a week.

The ACTU will kick off its industrial relations campaign with a rally in Attorney-General Christian Porter's marginal seat of Pearce in Western Australia.

"No one in Australia should be forced to work below the poverty line," ACTU secretary Sally McManus said.

Speaking in Canberra on Tuesday, Mr Shorten noted governments could make a submission to encourage the independent Fair Work Commission to lift wages, but for the first time said "another tool or mechanism which is available is to change the legislation".

"We’ll have more to say on this in coming weeks," he said.

University of Adelaide employment law expert Andrew Stewart said Labor could amend the Fair Work Act to require the commission to set a "living wage" but predicted Mr Shorten would likely take the approach of only "encouraging" it to do so.

He said Labor was unlikely to remove the requirement for the commission to also consider "the performance and competitiveness of the national economy, including productivity" when deciding by how much to lift pay packets.

Professor Stewart said it "would not be feasible" to reach the ACTU target of 60 per cent of the median full-time wage within a year, saying a phased introduction of this target would likely need to be implemented over more than two years.

Data from the Australian Council of Social Services shows the share of wage-earning Australians in poverty is growing, a statistic seized upon by Mr Shorten to claim the status quo was not working.

"It simply isn't fair, nor sustainable for economic confidence in this country that an adult could work full-time and be earning $18.93 an hour at the minimum wage before tax," he said.

"We trust the Fair Work Commission. But periodically, they do get it wrong."


A legislative change to the Fair Work Act would dwarf any of the other six wage proposals floated by Mr Shorten in an election he has labelled a "referendum on wages".

Mr Shorten has pledged to restore Sunday penalty rates, target sham contracting, close down dodgy visas, crackdown on labour hire operators, and close the gender pay gap.

He is yet to unveil a detailed policy on industry wide bargaining, which Labor is expected to roll out in low-paid industries.

Research published by the Reserve Bank of Australia last year found that there was "no evidence that small, incremental increases in award wages" resulted in higher unemployment but noted that at some point there would be an impact.

The Fair Work Commission increased the minimum wage by 3.5 per cent in 2018, and 3.3 per cent in 2017 – well above wage growth and inflation across the economy at around 2.1 per cent, but from a lower base.

Treasurer Josh Frydenberg said wages were driven by boosting productivity and more competition for labour, not by increasing taxes or intervening in the market.
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whiteknight
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #1 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:36pm
 
Well good on you Mr Shorten.  People need pay rises, the minimum wage is too low.  They need a good increase so they can have a living wage.   Smiley 
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #2 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:41pm
 
whiteknight wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:30pm:
Labor prepares to legislate a 'living wage' by changing the Fair Work Act   


So the independent FWC will no longer be truly independent? Having to abide by what Parliament decides.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #3 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:58pm
 
Nobody knows how or even if Labor will change legislation yet so everything is speculation....One thing is certain that the Coalition will do everything within their power to keep wages low and do nothing to address worker exploitation....And then there is this???

Quote:
Business threatened job losses within hours of Mr Shorten's comments


Without even knowing what Labor will propose business has already threatened workers with losing their jobs....The deck has been stacked against workers ever since the Coalition stacked the fair work commission with their business mates....Threatening job losses at the first hint of workers gaining a pay rise shows there is already a lack of independence from these ass holes!!!

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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #4 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:12pm
 
This is a why we need a Shorten labor government.  Get rid of the coalition, and their trickle down rubbish.   Sad
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #5 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:14pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:58pm:
The deck has been stacked against workers ever since the Coalition stacked the fair work commission with their business mates..


And yet it was the Labor appointees who killed penalty rates. Roll Eyes
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #6 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:18pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:14pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:58pm:
The deck has been stacked against workers ever since the Coalition stacked the fair work commission with their business mates..


And yet it was the Labor appointees who killed penalty rates. Roll Eyes


That's what some people keep saying.  But i also heard that by the time FWC said reduce penalty rates, some people were replaced with Libs. 

Also, independent bodies makes mistakes.  ALP trying to fix them.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #7 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:19pm
 
A Shorten labor government will restore, and protect the weekend and public holiday penalty rates.  Within the first 100 days.  Smiley
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #8 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:49pm
 
Stacked with Coalition cronies who are costing us a motza....Business was not happy they had to deal with public servants....Let the peasants pay for the right too keep their wages low!!!

Edited....
Quote:
The president, a former assistant secretary with the Australian Council of Trade Unions, had previously informed the government that only one new commissioner was necessary to replace departing commissioner Anna Cribb.

But Industrial Relations Minister Kelly O'Dwyer went on to appoint an additional six new deputy presidents (Paid $461,850 a year each) a position usually assigned to full bench cases.

The appointments mean most members of the Fair Work Commission are now Coalition appointments.


Angry Angry Angry

https://www.afr.com/news/policy/industrial-relations/fair-work-president-sidelin...
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #9 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:05pm
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:18pm:
That's what some people keep saying.  But i also heard that by the time FWC said reduce penalty rates, some people were replaced with Libs. 


You only have to look at the determination. All of those on the penalty rates review were Labor appointees, it was not the Full Board. It doesn't matter that some people have been replaced by Liberals, those sitting on that board were Labor appointments.

stunspore wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:18pm:
Also, independent bodies makes mistakes.  ALP trying to fix them.


By trying to change the legislation? That reduces their independence; does it not?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #10 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:08pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:49pm:
The appointments mean most members of the Fair Work Commission are now Coalition appointments.


And? Positions change, they are generally appointed for a fixed period. You want them to be there still in their dotage?

And they tend to change in between changes of government.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #11 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:10pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 7:14pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:58pm:
The deck has been stacked against workers ever since the Coalition stacked the fair work commission with their business mates..


And yet it was the Labor appointees who killed penalty rates. Roll Eyes


Fair work was broken from the start, they got it wrong time to fix it.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #12 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:13pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:10pm:
Fair work was broken from the start, they got it wrong time to fix it.


Well it was a Labor child.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #13 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:14pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:41pm:
whiteknight wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:30pm:
Labor prepares to legislate a 'living wage' by changing the Fair Work Act   


So the independent FWC will no longer be truly independent? Having to abide by what Parliament decides.


They always worked under guidelines set in our the act, when something is flawed and failing it is time to fix the problems.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #14 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:14pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:13pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:10pm:
Fair work was broken from the start, they got it wrong time to fix it.


Well it was a Labor child.


Who cares just fix it.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #15 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:15pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:14pm:
They always worked under guidelines set in our the act, when something is flawed and failing it is time to fix the problems.


Yes.  Wink
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #16 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:26pm
 
Voters know who was responsible for cutting Sunday penalty rates for low paid workers....No amount of bullshit can change history!!!

Quote:
Turnbull government backs penalty-rate cuts for low paid workers


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https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/turnbull-government-backs-penaltyrate-cu...
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #17 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:59pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:26pm:
Voters know who was responsible for cutting Sunday penalty rates for low paid workers....No amount of bullshit can change history!!!

Quote:
Turnbull government backs penalty-rate cuts for low paid workers


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/turnbull-government-backs-penaltyrate-cu...


So the Government backed the FWC decision? And if a future government backs an FWC decision?

You do understand the difference between an independent body making a decision and the government backing it and the government making the decision? Roll Eyes
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #18 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 9:20pm
 
The Government and business got what it wanted....Why are the Coalition and it's supporter trying to change history if they are so proud of their achievement....Talk about gutless wankers who refuse to own their dirty work???

Quote:
MALCOLM TURNBULL VOTED 8 TIMES TO CUT PENALTY RATES

8 TIMES MALCOLM TURNBULL MP VOTED AGAINST PROTECTING PENALTY RATES

4 December 2017, Malcolm Turnbull voted to cut penalty rates

On 20 June 2017, Malcolm Turnbull voted three times to cut penalty rates

On 13 June 2017, Malcolm Turnbull voted to cut penalty rates

On 11 May 2017, Malcolm Turnbull voted to cut penalty rates

On 2 March 2017, Malcolm Turnbull voted to cut penalty rates

On 27 February 2017, Malcolm Turnbull voted to cut penalty rates


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.penaltyratesrecord.com/wentworth
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #19 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 9:52pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 9:20pm:
Why are the Coalition and it's supporter trying to change history if they are so proud of their achievement...


On the back of the Labor appointed FWC commissioners. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin poor petal.

Now Turnbull voted to cut penalty rates? And yet he couldn't do it, it was up to the FWC. Roll Eyes

So what exactly did Turnbull achieve? Shocked

or do you mean those staunch loyal Labor appointed Commissioners turned to jelly backs because Turnbull was so scary?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #20 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 9:54pm
 
Labor and the Leftists showing their economic illiteracy again.

Nobel Prize winning economist Milton Friedman on minimum wages.

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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #21 - Mar 13th, 2019 at 11:56pm
 
The Coalition could have opposed a cut to penalty rates instead of supporting the move....Trying to claim this had nothing to do with the Coalition is complete bullshit....The Coalition doing the bidding of their business masters and stacking the FWC....This rabble must go!!!

Quote:
Scott Morrison could have voted to stop these penalty rates cuts. He voted 8 times to back big business instead.


Angry Angry Angry

https://www.penaltyratesrecord.com/cook
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #22 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:56am
 
...
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #23 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 11:35am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 11:56pm:
The Coalition could have opposed a cut to penalty rates instead of supporting the move.


And the FWC being an independent body could have ignored it.  Wink

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 11:56pm:
Trying to claim this had nothing to do with the Coalition is complete bullshit..


You would have to show that they coerced those brave and true Labor appointees, who immediately turned into jelly backs.

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 11:56pm:
The Coalition doing the bidding of their business masters and stacking the FWC.


Like Labor did when they were in power? Oh the inhumanity. But you haven't shown what this "stacked" FWC has done. Wink
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #24 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:15pm
 
There is a clear choice at the next election....A vote for the Coalition is a vote to keep wages low and guarantee they do nothing as they do not see stagnant wage growth as their problem or that they have any responsibility to go against the wishes of their Corporate masters....A vote for Labor is a vote for wage growth and a living wage....The Coalition have already admitted they cannot do anything because they have no influence over the FWC and their submissions mean nothing, they are worthless....A vote for Labor is a vote for the Party who can do something about stagnant wage growth....This rabble must go!!!

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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #25 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 5:37pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:15pm:
There is a clear choice at the next election....A vote for the Coalition is a vote to keep wages low and guarantee they do nothing as they do not see stagnant wage growth as their problem or that they have any responsibility to go against the wishes of their Corporate masters....A vote for Labor is a vote for wage growth and a living wage....The Coalition have already admitted they cannot do anything because they have no influence over the FWC and their submissions mean nothing, they are worthless....A vote for Labor is a vote for the Party who can do something about stagnant wage growth....This rabble must go!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Labor.


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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #26 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 5:43pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 5:37pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:15pm:
There is a clear choice at the next election....A vote for the Coalition is a vote to keep wages low and guarantee they do nothing as they do not see stagnant wage growth as their problem or that they have any responsibility to go against the wishes of their Corporate masters....A vote for Labor is a vote for wage growth and a living wage....The Coalition have already admitted they cannot do anything because they have no influence over the FWC and their submissions mean nothing, they are worthless....A vote for Labor is a vote for the Party who can do something about stagnant wage growth....This rabble must go!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Labor.




If Labor had remained in power Hawke would have been correct....However the Howard Government made sure poverty was built into the system....A vote for the Coalition is a vote for poverty unless you have already exploited workers to build your wealth!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #27 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:04pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:15pm:
The Coalition have already admitted they cannot do anything because they have no influence over the FWC and their submissions mean nothing, they are worthless.



And so based on that - Labor is proposing to emasculate the independent umpire. Because that is the only way they can control the independent umpire.

Tell us what happens when Labor, should they be elected, eventually lose government. That would mean the Coalition would have unfettered access to determine wages. Do Labor ever think beyond the near term? Wink
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #28 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:34pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:59pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 8:26pm:
Voters know who was responsible for cutting Sunday penalty rates for low paid workers....No amount of bullshit can change history!!!

Quote:
Turnbull government backs penalty-rate cuts for low paid workers


Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/turnbull-government-backs-penaltyrate-cu...


So the Government backed the FWC decision? And if a future government backs an FWC decision?

You do understand the difference between an independent body making a decision and the government backing it and the government making the decision? Roll Eyes


The government was pushing for penalty rate changes from the day they came into office. There were not a disinterested observer to the process. They were pushing the business community advising them and having quiet discussions with the commission.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #29 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:36pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:41pm:
whiteknight wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:30pm:
Labor prepares to legislate a 'living wage' by changing the Fair Work Act   


So the independent FWC will no longer be truly independent? Having to abide by what Parliament decides.


Because that what Parliament does.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #30 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:39pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:04pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 4:15pm:
The Coalition have already admitted they cannot do anything because they have no influence over the FWC and their submissions mean nothing, they are worthless.



And so based on that - Labor is proposing to emasculate the independent umpire. Because that is the only way they can control the independent umpire.

Tell us what happens when Labor, should they be elected, eventually lose government. That would mean the Coalition would have unfettered access to determine wages. Do Labor ever think beyond the near term? Wink


An independent umpire would not have made such an incompetent or dishonest decision. They seem to have openly supported a case based on obvious lies.

There is nothing wrong with fixing something that is broken. 
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #31 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:06pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:39pm:
An independent umpire would not have made such an incompetent or dishonest decision. They seem to have openly supported a case based on obvious lies.


Back to that position that the Labor appointees were honest brokers under Labor but jelly backs under the Coalition. Grin Grin Grin Grin


Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:39pm:
There is nothing wrong with fixing something that is broken. 


I didn't say there was. But shouldn't they look at a preferred model, what they want to achieve, rather than an ad hoc decision. A decision that may not represent what they want to happen after they inevitably lose government?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #32 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:19pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:06pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:39pm:
An independent umpire would not have made such an incompetent or dishonest decision. They seem to have openly supported a case based on obvious lies.


Back to that position that the Labor appointees were honest brokers under Labor but jelly backs under the Coalition. Grin Grin Grin Grin


Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 6:39pm:
There is nothing wrong with fixing something that is broken. 


I didn't say there was. But shouldn't they look at a preferred model, what they want to achieve, rather than an ad hoc decision. A decision that may not represent what they want to happen after they inevitably lose government?


Quote:
Back to that position that the Labor appointees were honest brokers under Labor but jelly backs under the Coalition. Grin Grin Grin Grin


You really should not depend on guesses of what other people think. The only thing that fair work was ever going to be better then was workchoices and never by anywhere near enough.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #33 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:24pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
You really should not depend on guesses of what other people think.


Perhaps then you could explain how the Labor appointees on the FWC buckled under Coalition "pressure" Wink

Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
The only thing that fair work was ever going to be better then was workchoices and never by anywhere near enough.



So a Labor fail then?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #34 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:40pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:24pm:
Perhaps then you could explain how the Labor appointees on
the FWC buckled under Coalition "pressure"
Wink


Olay....Dickhead!!!

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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #35 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:04pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:24pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
You really should not depend on guesses of what other people think.


Perhaps then you could explain how the Labor appointees on the FWC buckled under Coalition "pressure" Wink

Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
The only thing that fair work was ever going to be better then was workchoices and never by anywhere near enough.



So a Labor fail then?


Quote:
Perhaps then you could explain how the Labor appointees on the FWC buckled under Coalition "pressure"


Why would I explain something that I never said. Though the government were deeply involved in the process and no doubt influenced the outcome.



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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #36 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:05pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:40pm:
olay....Dickhead!!!



Poor phil. Struggling to attain relevancy Wink.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #37 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:10pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:04pm:
Though the government were deeply involved in the process and no doubt influenced the outcome.


If there is no doubt you must have something germane on how this was achieved.

Because we have heard that Labor only appointed principled people, they wouldn't do anything else; right? We have also heard it is only the Coalition who appointed mates of no principle to the Commission.

So what happened to the Labor appointees principles?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #38 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:14pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:05pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:40pm:
olay....Dickhead!!!


Struggling to attain relevancy


lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 7:24pm:
Perhaps then you could explain how the Labor appointees on
the FWC buckled under Coalition "pressure"
Wink


Olay....Dickhead!!!
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #39 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:18pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:14pm:
lee wrote Today at 5:24pm:
Perhaps then you could explain how the Labor appointees on the FWC buckled under Coalition "pressure"



Poor petal. Struggling to explain how this "pressure" was brought to bear. And to principled people no less.

was it thirty pieces of silver?  No that would mean they had no principles. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #40 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:48pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:10pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 8:04pm:
Though the government were deeply involved in the process and no doubt influenced the outcome.


If there is no doubt you must have something germane on how this was achieved.

Because we have heard that Labor only appointed principled people, they wouldn't do anything else; right? We have also heard it is only the Coalition who appointed mates of no principle to the Commission.

So what happened to the Labor appointees principles?


Had you followed the facts at the time for the term of government you would have benifited in 2 ways.

1 Your would know the answer to your question and

2 you would know what you were talking about in general.

For a start you would know that the government kicked off the discussion and put the topic on the table with Fair Work.

You would also be aware that as far back as Hockey the Liberals were persuading business to go after what they wanted through fair work as well as explaining to them how to go about it.

The government set the stage and coached their team. There was a lot more going on than people were made aware of as well.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #41 - Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:53pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:48pm:
The government set the stage and coached their team. There was a lot more going on than people were made aware of as well.


And the Labor appointed Commissioners who did the deal were not on their team. They were independent.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #42 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:22pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:53pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 14th, 2019 at 9:48pm:
The government set the stage and coached their team. There was a lot more going on than people were made aware of as well.


And the Labor appointed Commissioners who did the deal were not on their team. They were independent.  Roll Eyes


You make a lot out of them being appointed by Labor - it does not necessarily mean anything.

In fact you have made most of your going bast on a statement which is basically without meaning or relevance.

These guys current boss is a Liberal government and it was fairly clear from the time Abbott took power that if the Libs didn't like their performance they were going to disband Fair work. Removing fair work was under serious discussion at the beginning of the Abbott Government.

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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #43 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:26pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
You make a lot out of them being appointed by Labor - it does not necessarily mean anything.



You mean Labor appointed the bosses representatives to the Board?

Dnarever wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
In fact you have made most of your going bast on a statement which is basically without meaning or relevance.


So why did the Labor appointed Commissioners vote against penalty rates?

Dnarever wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
These guys current boss is a Liberal government and it was fairly clear from the time Abbott took power that if the Libs didn't like their performance they were going to disband Fair work. Removing fair work was under serious discussion at the beginning of the Abbott Government.


So another conspiracy theory. The FWC voted on penalty rates to save their own arse?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #44 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:41pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:26pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
You make a lot out of them being appointed by Labor - it does not necessarily mean anything.



You mean Labor appointed the bosses representatives to the Board?

Dnarever wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
In fact you have made most of your going bast on a statement which is basically without meaning or relevance.


So why did the Labor appointed Commissioners vote against penalty rates?

Dnarever wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
These guys current boss is a Liberal government and it was fairly clear from the time Abbott took power that if the Libs didn't like their performance they were going to disband Fair work. Removing fair work was under serious discussion at the beginning of the Abbott Government.


So another conspiracy theory. The FWC voted on penalty rates to save their own arse?


So why did the Labor appointed Commissioners vote against penalty rates?

...

So another conspiracy theory. The FWC voted on penalty rates to save their own arse?


I didn't say that ? However what I did say is solidly based in history, it is what happened.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #45 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 8:19pm
 
The Coalition got what they wanted and advocated for....A cut in penalty rates for the lowest paid workers in the country....The Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison Government have done the bidding of their Corporate masters and must now face the electorate as the party that cut penalty rates to the lowest paid....This rabble must go!!!

Angry Angry Angry
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #46 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:16pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 8:19pm:
The Coalition got what they wanted and advocated for..


So the independent body wasn't independent? oh dear.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #47 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:29pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:16pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 8:19pm:
The Coalition got what they wanted and advocated for..


So the independent body wasn't independent? oh dear.


Not sure if they acted independently or not the problem was that they bought into a pack of lies and made their decision based on dishonest argument. I cannot tell you if they acted corruptly or if it was just a mix of incompetence, ineptitude and naivety.

Attacking the poorest most disadvantaged in the community was a rotten act that all involved should pay a steep price for.


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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #48 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:42pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:16pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 8:19pm:
The Coalition got what they wanted and advocated for..


So the independent body wasn't independent? oh dear.


Not the first time Coalition (and perhaps ALP) influenced independent bodies -> RC into unions, ABCC, Aussie Fed Police.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #49 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:43pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:29pm:
Not sure if they acted independently or not the problem was that they bought into a pack of lies and made their decision based on dishonest argument.  I cannot tell you if they acted corruptly or if it was just a mix of incompetence, ineptitude and naivety.



If it was dishonest argument that would point to incompetence and ineptitude at least; wouldn't it? I mean they were supposedly well educated men.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #50 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:44pm
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:42pm:
Not the first time Coalition (and perhaps ALP) influenced independent bodies -> RC into unions, ABCC, Aussie Fed Police.



Evidence?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #51 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:26pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:44pm:
stunspore wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 10:42pm:
Not the first time Coalition (and perhaps ALP) influenced independent bodies -> RC into unions, ABCC, Aussie Fed Police.



Evidence?


Yes, where was the evidence for the ABC with firing some sort of top person?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #52 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:27pm
 
Even the AFP union worried about their integrity being under the umbrella of Dutton's department.  Read it up on google.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #53 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:39pm
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:26pm:
Yes, where was the evidence for the ABC with firing some sort of top person?


So now the ABC is the Government Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #54 - Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:39pm
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:27pm:
Even the AFP union worried about their integrity being under the umbrella of Dutton's department. 


And that is proof of something? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #55 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:56am
 
It's ok, Lee. As a coalition supporter, you are required to deny all, be skeptical against all that is negative to the coalition government.
I mean nothing wrong being a climate change denier, anti-vax person or a racist bigot.  Not that i am saying you are, but that is what is being linked to being a Coalition supporter.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #56 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:12am
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:56am:
It's ok, Lee. As a coalition supporter, you are required to deny all, be skeptical against all that is negative to the coalition government.
I mean nothing wrong being a climate change denier, anti-vax person or a racist bigot.  Not that i am saying you are, but that is what is being linked to being a Coalition supporter.



good grief..... Grin Grin Grin Grin

what sort of idiot would believe that crap... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #57 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:16am
 
cods wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:12am:
stunspore wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:56am:
It's ok, Lee. As a coalition supporter, you are required to deny all, be skeptical against all that is negative to the coalition government.
I mean nothing wrong being a climate change denier, anti-vax person or a racist bigot.  Not that i am saying you are, but that is what is being linked to being a Coalition supporter.



good grief..... Grin Grin Grin Grin

what sort of idiot would believe that crap... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brandis?  Abbott?  and One Nation (Coalition's partner?)
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #58 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:25am
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:56am:
It's ok, Lee. As a coalition supporter, you are required to deny all, be skeptical against all that is negative to the coalition government.
I mean nothing wrong being a climate change denier, anti-vax person or a racist bigot.  Not that i am saying you are, but that is what is being linked to being a Coalition supporter.



What rubbish I see no connection with Anti Vaxers at all.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #59 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:27am
 
lee wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:39pm:
stunspore wrote on Mar 15th, 2019 at 11:27pm:
Even the AFP union worried about their integrity being under the umbrella of Dutton's department. 


And that is proof of something? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


The Liberals have serially made political use of the AFP in recent history ?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #60 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:08am
 
lee wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:41pm:
whiteknight wrote on Mar 13th, 2019 at 6:30pm:
Labor prepares to legislate a 'living wage' by changing the Fair Work Act   


So the independent FWC will no longer be truly independent? Having to abide by what Parliament decides.



That argument applies equally to not changing the act as it was politicians who set the original standards.

i.e. politicians set the low wage standard that fair work apply. A government saying to fair work that the standard we expect you to apply is going to change is no different to using the standard that the politicians originally set.

Fair work apply fair independent rulings (or sometimes do) against the framework that live under as have every prior body. The framework regularly changes and always has.

Setting the standards expected is a function of government.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #61 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 11:56am
 
stunspore wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:56am:
As a coalition supporter, you are required to deny all, be skeptical against all that is negative to the coalition government.


First you would have to point out where I have denied anything. I did ask for proof, but only got assertions.

The coalition could have done this. What you have signally failed to do is prove it. Wink

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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #62 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:00pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:27am:
The Liberals have serially made political use of the AFP in recent history ?



That is a question. Why don't you answer it.

And then for balance look at the ALP. We wouldn't want an unbalanced view would we?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #63 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:03pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:08am:
That argument applies equally to not changing the act as it was politicians who set the original standards.

i.e. politicians set the low wage standard that fair work apply.


But the independent board has the power to change the wage standard. That is what it was set up to do, to take those decisions out of the hands of government.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:08am:
Setting the standards expected in a function of government.


Not when they set up an independent board to carry out those functions.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #64 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:14pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:03pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:08am:
That argument applies equally to not changing the act as it was politicians who set the original standards.

i.e. politicians set the low wage standard that fair work apply.


But the independent board has the power to change the wage standard. That is what it was set up to do, to take those decisions out of the hands of government.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:08am:
Setting the standards expected in a function of government.


Not when they set up an independent board to carry out those functions.


Fairwork were never set up to have authority over their legislated act, no commission is.

The commission set the level of the low wage they cannot choose to set a living wage (there is no such thing in the act) it is outside of their scope doing this is a function of government in has to be enacted in parliament. Commissions do not enact legislation they function under it.


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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #65 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 1:04pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:14pm:
Fairwork were never set up to have authority over their legislated act, no commission is.


Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:14pm:
Commissions do not enact legislation they function under it.


That is true. But penalty rates aren't under any legislation. The same as tax rates aren't under legislation. They are under regulation, it makes it easier to change them.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #66 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:51pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 1:04pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:14pm:
Fairwork were never set up to have authority over their legislated act, no commission is.


Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 12:14pm:
Commissions do not enact legislation they function under it.


That is true. But penalty rates aren't under any legislation. The same as tax rates aren't under legislation. They are under regulation, it makes it easier to change them.


You did vaguely notice that the Topic is about legislating a Living wage ?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #67 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:01pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:51pm:
You did vaguely notice that the Topic is about legislating a Living wage ?



Yes. Doesn't mean it is going to be done. 

As I said they tend to do payments by Regulation.

From the OP -

"University of Adelaide employment law expert Andrew Stewart said Labor could amend the Fair Work Act to require the commission to set a "living wage" but predicted Mr Shorten would likely take the approach of only "encouraging" it to do so.

He said Labor was unlikely to remove the requirement for the commission to also consider "the performance and competitiveness of the national economy, including productivity" when deciding by how much to lift pay packets."

That would mean no legislation if the FWC was only "encouraged" to do so.

And a completely different scenario to penalty rates. Wink
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #68 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:03pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:01pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:51pm:
You did vaguely notice that the Topic is about legislating a Living wage ?



Yes. Doesn't mean it is going to be done. 

As I said they tend to do payments by Regulation.

From the OP -

"University of Adelaide employment law expert Andrew Stewart said Labor could amend the Fair Work Act to require the commission to set a "living wage" but predicted Mr Shorten would likely take the approach of only "encouraging" it to do so.

He said Labor was unlikely to remove the requirement for the commission to also consider "the performance and competitiveness of the national economy, including productivity" when deciding by how much to lift pay packets."

That would mean no legislation if the FWC was only "encouraged" to do so.

And a completely different scenario to penalty rates. Wink


I would say you expert if full of it. Read the legislation the minimum wage is defined in it and mentioned all over the place. There is no such thing as a living wage and the commission has no reference to one, there is effectivly no such thing to the commission. They can not be encouraged to establish something which is not included in their responsibilities.

They have a legislated requirement to produce a minimum wage decision and no ability to modify this to be something else. Not even with a governments encouragement the proposition seems to be silly.

The provision look like this :

Quote:
135  Special provisions relating to modern award minimum wages

             (1)  Modern award minimum wages cannot be varied under this Part except as follows:

                     (a)  modern award minimum wages can be varied if the FWC is satisfied that the variation is justified by work value reasons (see subsections 156(3) and 157(2));

                     (b)  modern award minimum wages can be varied under section 160 (which deals with variation to remove ambiguities or correct errors) or section 161 (which deals with variation on referral by the Australian Human Rights Commission).

Note 1:       The main power to vary modern award minimum wages is in annual wage reviews under Part 2‑6. Modern award minimum wages can also be set or revoked in annual wage reviews.

Note 2:       For the meanings of modern award minimum wages, and setting and varying such wages, see section 284.

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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #69 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:05pm
 
Here is 282 as referenced. You will see that the minimum wage is entrenched in the legislation and that there is no provision to do anything else, it is not possible to be encouraged to create a living wage under this legislation just as it is not possible to not implement a minimum wage decision.

Quote:
Part 2‑6—Minimum wages

Division 1—Introduction

282  Guide to this Part

This Part provides for the FWC (constituted by an Expert Panel) to set and vary minimum wages for national system employees. For employees covered by modern awards, minimum wages are specified in the modern award. For award/agreement free employees, minimum wages are specified in the national minimum wage order.

Division 2 provides for the minimum wages objective. This requires the FWC to establish and maintain a safety net of fair minimum wages, taking into account certain social and economic factors.

Division 3 provides for the FWC (constituted by an Expert Panel) to conduct annual wage reviews. In an annual wage review, the FWC may set or vary minimum wages in modern awards, and must make a national minimum wage order. Minimum wages in modern awards can also be set, or varied (in limited circumstances), under Part 2‑3 (which deals with modern awards).

Division 4 provides for national minimum wage orders and requires employers to comply with them. The orders set the national minimum wage, as well as special national minimum wages for junior employees, employees to whom training arrangements apply and employees with a disability. The orders also set the casual loading for award/agreement free employees.

National minimum wages and special national minimum wages apply to award/agreement free employees. However, they are also relevant to other employees as follows:

(a)   in setting or varying modern award minimum wages, the FWC must take the national minimum wage into account (see subsection 135(2) (in Part 2‑3) and subsection 285(3) (in this Part));

(b)   for an employee who is not covered by a modern award and to whom an enterprise agreement applies, the employee’s base rate of pay under the agreement must not be less than the relevant national minimum wage or special national minimum wage (see subsection 206(3) (in Part 2‑4)).

For an employee who is covered by a modern award and to whom an enterprise agreement applies, the employee’s base rate of pay under the agreement must not be less than the base rate of pay that would have been payable to the employee if the award applied (see subsection 206(1) (in Part 2‑4)).
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #70 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:07pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 8:01pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 6:51pm:
You did vaguely notice that the Topic is about legislating a Living wage ?



Yes. Doesn't mean it is going to be done. 

As I said they tend to do payments by Regulation.

From the OP -

"University of Adelaide employment law expert Andrew Stewart said Labor could amend the Fair Work Act to require the commission to set a "living wage" but predicted Mr Shorten would likely take the approach of only "encouraging" it to do so.

He said Labor was unlikely to remove the requirement for the commission to also consider "the performance and competitiveness of the national economy, including productivity" when deciding by how much to lift pay packets."

That would mean no legislation if the FWC was only "encouraged" to do so.

And a completely different scenario to penalty rates. Wink


What they did to penalty rates was evil but also not covered by this topic.
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #71 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:42pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:05pm:
You will see that the minimum wage is entrenched in the legislation and that there is no provision to do anything else, it is not possible to be encouraged to create a living wage under this legislation just as it is not possible to not implement a minimum wage decision.


You might  care to note that the legislation does not cover the actual payment made. That is made by regulation.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:05pm:
This Part provides for the FWC (constituted by an Expert Panel) to set and vary minimum wages for national system employees.


Did you read that bit? So wouldn't a living wage be the new "minimum wage"?
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #72 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 11:24pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:42pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:05pm:
You will see that the minimum wage is entrenched in the legislation and that there is no provision to do anything else, it is not possible to be encouraged to create a living wage under this legislation just as it is not possible to not implement a minimum wage decision.


You might  care to note that the legislation does not cover the actual payment made. That is made by regulation.

Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 9:05pm:
This Part provides for the FWC (constituted by an Expert Panel) to set and vary minimum wages for national system employees.


Did you read that bit? So wouldn't a living wage be the new "minimum wage"?


No the minimum wage is very specifically defined the minimum wage is not the same as the living wage as it is defined in a different manner to the minimum wage which is defined in the legislation.

There is all sorts of provisions meant to include different employment groups into the national minimum wage this is one of them, Setting and varying the minimum wage is the process that applies to the minimum wage yearly decisions. It sets a minimum wage not a living wage, they are different things
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Re: Labor Prepares To Legislate A Living Wage
Reply #73 - Mar 16th, 2019 at 11:28pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 11:24pm:
No the minimum wage is very specifically defined the minimum wage is not the same as the living wage as it is defined in a different manner to the minimum wage which is defined in the legislation.


But definitions can be changed. Wink

Dnarever wrote on Mar 16th, 2019 at 11:24pm:
There is all sorts of provisions meant to include different employment groups into the national minimum wage this is one of them, Setting and varying the minimum wage is the process that applies to the minimum wage yearly decisions. It sets a minimum wage not a living wage, they are different things


But the living wage isn't yet legislated, how can you be sure they will be different?
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