polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 6
th, 2019 at 2:19pm:
I've tried the 'this is what the Quran really means, and why' route K, its brick wall territory here.
Now I'm trying empathy, looking at it from their point of view. If people have their hearts set on one particular interpretation of the Quran and can't be budged, then maybe its worth making your case from that starting point. So I play devils advocate and weigh up the realities of a hypothetical world in which around 2 billion people adhere to a dangerous cult invented by a homocidal maniacal psychopathic pedophile, who wrote an evil doctrine of bloodlust and hatred of anything non-muslim, and compelled all muslims to follow it. If that really must be the starting point, then what would you prefer the thought processes of practicing muslims to be? To be honest and carry out the murder and destruction demanded by their cult, or to be dishonest and "gloss over" and do mental contortions to rationalise their cult into something peaceful and compatible with civilized society? Does it make sense to mock and ridicule those adherents who do the latter? Not to me.
Nor me, but "fighting" is not seen by Muslims as joining a militia and killing people. Every Muslim I've talked with about this has made that point - Jihad is a spiritual struggle, a struggle with your own demons. Yes, it can also be an external struggle against injustice, as Muhammed Ali showed.
These are the facts. You've shown them this through Quran quotes with their correct translation, and yes, it's like going up against a brick wall. FD quotes only half the passage. Moses interprets it to mean the exact opposite of what it says. Y just blathers on.
Practicing Christians are certainly capable of ignoring parts of the Bible and carrying on with their faith. I can't see why Muslims would be compelled to blow themselves up by a misreading of a passage in the Quran when the rest of the faith go about their business adhering to the spirit of the book, which is about faith and spiritual evolution.
I mean this, I don't understand Jihadists. We've discussed poverty, but many Jihadists are rich. We've discussed education, but many are professionals, including doctors. If it was as simple as just blaming the Quran, all would be solved, but it's not - particularly when the Quran is emphatic on killing innocents, which includes suicide.
There is rape in the name of Islam, organised crime, drug trafficking, money laundering, and all are described by the Quran as haram. I can understand this and I'm not a Muslim, just as I can understand Christians anointing female priests and allowing homosexuality.
The Quran, as I see it, encourages people to think for themselves. It's about struggling with your inner urges to spiritually evolve. There is no way a thinking person could use Islam to justify rape, suicide bombing or drug trafficking.
Just as Moses et al explain Christian terrorists as not keeping to the Bible, the same is true for the Quran. The old boy's chasing Brian around to tell him he's a numpty for thinking Christianity creates paedophiles and war mongers. He's right, of course. These are human foibles, the very thing Christianity and Islam encourage us to struggle against.
That, after all, is what Jihad is about, as every Muslim schoolboy knows.
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