Australian Politics Forum - are we citizens or subjects?

Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #15 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:54pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:52pm:

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:48pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:45pm:

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:32pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:09pm:

I've highlighted the important bit.

The Chinese are not capable of their own 'ideas' they are of a low gene pool variation (despite 'numbers') and have gained the reputation of COPYING everyone else, etc, etc.

So - yes, the Demonisation of Chinese 'ideas' is justified.

I agree the communist party publicises ideas that will get them support and are not working in the interests of the greater good.

However, by appealing to us, they will have to bring good ideas.

What does it matter where a good idea comes from if it is a good idea? Why does an idea have to be bad of it is from the opposition? Why is there an imposed level of hatred?

For example Australia "owned" the south pacific and never developed it.

China is now investing in it and developing it.

Why is this so bad? Because it causes the government to lose influence and therefore power in the south pacific? Why is this about power and not about living standards and the advancement of the human race?

More like the South Pacific (Oceania) and its MEDIA owned Australia Wink

A Media that is 'bias' towards Asia, Africa & Europe and has betrayed Namerica, Sahul (Australia) and Samerica.

The Australian government essentially funded and controlled all media in South Pacific nations.

No. The Media has ruled both USA & Aust Politics for so long that someone like Trump - who doesn't 'serve' the Media (like the People's Pope John Paul 2nd - who turned a blind eye to all the spiders in the Vatican, like the People's Princess Diana who gold-digged for the Spencer Family, like the People's President Obama who held hands with his wife, but couldn't shake hands with other nations in the name of peace..., etc) are now showing us the Media's INFLUENCE in the past.

The Media ruled Australian Politics and still does in a way.
Christopher Pyne said "It's all just one big show for the cameras". Roll Eyes

If the media rules politics, then the media has infiltrated and taken over the government. Alternatively, the government has infiltrated and taken over the media.

In this context, any actions of an elected official endorsed by a major party is working in tandem with the compromised media you allude to.

This comes back to the idea that we are animals who need to be psychologically manipulated and ideas are dangerous.

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Jasin

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #16 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:58pm

Close.

Australian and USA Politics or 'Western' Politics has more or less been 'hijacked' for so long by Northern European and Southern European 'styles' which the Media shines for.

Now we are seeing 'true' Western style Politics coming through and especially with the 'Lightning Rod' of Trump.

I'm sorry, but when it comes to Blue Brunette 'Spin Doctor' Politics and Grey Raven-haired 'Car Salesman' Politics - they are both the North/South (USA Civil War) Politics of the Past and not true 'Western' of the 'Future'.

It's complicated, but the 'new' team are coming through and they are going to fix the damage that was done.
But that's NEW WORLDS for you Wink

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #17 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 4:08pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:58pm:

Close.

Australian and USA Politics or 'Western' Politics has more or less been 'hijacked' for so long by Northern European and Southern European 'styles' which the Media shines for.

Now we are seeing 'true' Western style Politics coming through and especially with the 'Lightning Rod' of Trump.

I'm sorry, but when it comes to Blue Brunette 'Spin Doctor' Politics and Grey Raven-haired 'Car Salesman' Politics - they are both the North/South (USA Civil War) Politics of the Past and not true 'Western' of the 'Future'.

It's complicated, but the 'new' team are coming through and they are going to fix the damage that was done.
But that's NEW WORLDS for you Wink

I don't see what you are talking about.

If we go back to the idea that government announcements are about maintaining the confidence of the public to govern, and therefore the government has the interests of the government at heart, it is hard to see how western politics are European.

America celebrates very strongly and patriotically the revolutionary war. America also sees European liberalism as a threat to their way of life. This is ingrained in their electoral consciousness.

In fact, much of Europe was against Iraq. The few that supported the invasion included recent leavers of the USSR, using the blood of their youth to prove their political reliability.

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Jasin

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #18 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 4:10pm

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 4:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:58pm:

Close.

Australian and USA Politics or 'Western' Politics has more or less been 'hijacked' for so long by Northern European and Southern European 'styles' which the Media shines for.

Now we are seeing 'true' Western style Politics coming through and especially with the 'Lightning Rod' of Trump.

I'm sorry, but when it comes to Blue Brunette 'Spin Doctor' Politics and Grey Raven-haired 'Car Salesman' Politics - they are both the North/South (USA Civil War) Politics of the Past and not true 'Western' of the 'Future'.

It's complicated, but the 'new' team are coming through and they are going to fix the damage that was done.
But that's NEW WORLDS for you Wink

I don't see what you are talking about.

If we go back to the idea that government announcements are about maintaining the confidence of the public to govern, and therefore the government has the interests of the government at heart, it is hard to see how western politics are European.

America celebrates very strongly and patriotically the revolutionary war. America also sees European liberalism as a threat to their way of life. This is ingrained in their electoral consciousness.

In fact, much of Europe was against Iraq. The few that supported the invasion included recent leavers of the USSR, using the blood of their youth to prove their political reliability.

Not many do.
But I admit my stuff is 'new'.
It's complicated.
I have to be somewhere now (Radio Station).
Maybe another time.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #19 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 4:15pm

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 4:10pm:

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 4:08pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 3:58pm:

Close.

Australian and USA Politics or 'Western' Politics has more or less been 'hijacked' for so long by Northern European and Southern European 'styles' which the Media shines for.

Now we are seeing 'true' Western style Politics coming through and especially with the 'Lightning Rod' of Trump.

I'm sorry, but when it comes to Blue Brunette 'Spin Doctor' Politics and Grey Raven-haired 'Car Salesman' Politics - they are both the North/South (USA Civil War) Politics of the Past and not true 'Western' of the 'Future'.

It's complicated, but the 'new' team are coming through and they are going to fix the damage that was done.
But that's NEW WORLDS for you Wink

I don't see what you are talking about.

If we go back to the idea that government announcements are about maintaining the confidence of the public to govern, and therefore the government has the interests of the government at heart, it is hard to see how western politics are European.

America celebrates very strongly and patriotically the revolutionary war. America also sees European liberalism as a threat to their way of life. This is ingrained in their electoral consciousness.

In fact, much of Europe was against Iraq. The few that supported the invasion included recent leavers of the USSR, using the blood of their youth to prove their political reliability.

Not many do.
But I admit my stuff is 'new'.
It's complicated.
I have to be somewhere now (Radio Station).
Maybe another time.

I don't see how your assertion is true. Americans and the American electorate are very closed to ideas from Europe. It is called socialism and labelled a national security threat, or un American by commentators. It is not politically mainstream to have European political views.

Just quickly: revolution against England.

Fought a whole bunch of countries in WW2 including Germany and Italy. Spain were fascists with Hitler and France was team surrender and ungrateful.

Culturally they are not receptive to European political norms.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: are we citizens or subjects? Reply #20 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:32pm Spatchcock: Quote: You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it. That is absolute crap, so I am putting you in the looney bin.
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Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #21 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:36pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:32pm:

Spatchcock:

Quote:

You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it.

That is absolute crap, so I am putting you in the looney bin.

That is absolute truth. Just because your reasoning does not match reality does not make your statements accurate.

Back up your claim. You can't. I can.

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Aussie

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #22 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:37pm

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:32pm:

Spatchcock:

Quote:

You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it.

That is absolute crap, so I am putting you in the looney bin.

That is absolute truth. Just because your reasoning does not match reality does not make your statements accurate.

Back up your claim. You can't. I can.

Okay, go right ahead.

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Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #23 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:39pm

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:32pm:

Spatchcock:

Quote:

You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it.

That is absolute crap, so I am putting you in the looney bin.

That is absolute truth. Just because your reasoning does not match reality does not make your statements accurate.

Back up your claim. You can't. I can.

Are you familiar with the term insubordination?

Do it in the work place and you are not a team player.

Do it in government and you are a security risk.

Your orders are to implement government policy. Intentional failure to do so and to pursue an alternative agenda for your own gain or belief is insubordination, or mutiny, or security issue. You will lose it faster than you envision. One snap of the fingers and you are put under review and your access to information becomes restricted.

That's how it works. There is an entire agency dedicated to this. It is called the Australian Government Security Vetting Agency.

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Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #24 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:40pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:37pm:

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:32pm:

Spatchcock:

Quote:

You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it.

That is absolute crap, so I am putting you in the looney bin.

That is absolute truth. Just because your reasoning does not match reality does not make your statements accurate.

Back up your claim. You can't. I can.

Okay, go right ahead.

I just did. You saying otherwise is you saying otherwise and much like your first post to me, unsubstantiated and comprising personal attacks.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: are we citizens or subjects? Reply #25 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:45pm Quote: You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it. I called that crap. You said you could back it up.....so...get on with it. Back it up.
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Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #26 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:46pm

Aussie wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:37pm:

Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:36pm:

Aussie wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:32pm:

Spatchcock:

Quote:

You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it.

That is absolute crap, so I am putting you in the looney bin.

That is absolute truth. Just because your reasoning does not match reality does not make your statements accurate.

Back up your claim. You can't. I can.

Okay, go right ahead.

Another way to PROVE that you have no knowledge or understanding on the topic is that you are not representing the government. You are not capable or allowed to comment on security vetting procedures at all. You have no legitimate claim to knowing or understanding any procedures.

It would be extremely illegal to claim to have this knowledge and to then try and present it with authority. You would not be persued or prosecuted but you would be marked as misrepresenting or masquerading as having government authority or represebtation that you do not have, which would negatively affect your ability to gain a security clearance in the future as you act as though you have extremely serious high-level knowledge and the authority to use that with the authority to launch a personal attack on me.

So regardless of the fact you are way out of your depth, you are pretending to be something you are not in order to pretend on one you're a government insider, or alternatively cosy up to the government for some emotional want or need.

Those are also all facts.

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Spatchcock

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Re: are we citizens or subjects?
Reply #27 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:50pm

Aussie, you have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of the subject, that is undeniable. In fact the little bit you chose to go after proves that you are wanting to appear to be some kind of government insider, which you are not.

Of course you can demand I prove you are way out of depth, but all that would do is indicate your emotional need to pretend to be something you're not to this forum via mysterious innuendo.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: are we citizens or subjects? Reply #28 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:50pm Out of my depth, hey? Quote: You are only getting a security clearance if you enact or enforce or implement government policy, not if you question it. I called that crap. You said you could back it up.....so...get on with it. Back it up.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: are we citizens or subjects? Reply #29 - Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:52pm Spatchcock wrote on Feb 28^th, 2019 at 5:46pm: You are not capable or allowed to comment on security vetting procedures at all. what a load of crap. I think you're confusing your government in China, with the Australian government.
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