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Sonia Kruger (Read 9965 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #60 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm:
I guess the distinction was too subtle for you.


Perhaps. My understanding of the distinction you were trying to draw was between saying 'any and every new muslim immigrant personally increases the security risk' and 'an increase in muslim immigration in general necessarily increases the risk - based on the idea that in all muslim populations contain a certain proportion of a subset that is a security threat - and therefore that subset would necessarily increase' - is that correct?

If so, then I maintain she meant, or at least implied the former, when she stated that the size of the muslim population in and of itself determines the terrorist threat level, and therefore formed the justification of her call to ban muslim immigration.

There was no nuance there, no attempt to distinguish any such subsets, or consider any other factors that may contribute to the risk level (in contrast to Bolt). Whatever you say she might have been thinking (but didn't bother to articulate), her words taken at face value literally say to any peace loving, law abiding muslim who intends to immigrate to Australia - *YOU* personally will make Australia less safe if you move here. Not to mention the message it sends to existing muslim residents - since you contribute to a muslim population that is apparently too high - you too personally make Australia a more dangerous place.


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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #61 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:26pm
 
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #62 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:26pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm:
I guess the distinction was too subtle for you.


Perhaps. My understanding of the distinction you were trying to draw was between saying 'any and every new muslim immigrant personally increases the security risk' and 'an increase in muslim immigration in general necessarily increases the risk - based on the idea that in all muslim populations contain a certain proportion of a subset that is a security threat - and therefore that subset would necessarily increase' - is that correct?

If so, then I maintain she meant, or at least implied the former, when she stated that the size of the muslim population in and of itself determines the terrorist threat level, and therefore formed the justification of her call to ban muslim immigration.

There was no nuance there, no attempt to distinguish any such subsets, or consider any other factors that may contribute to the risk level (in contrast to Bolt). Whatever you say she might have been thinking (but didn't bother to articulate), her words taken at face value literally say to any peace loving, law abiding muslim who intends to immigrate to Australia - *YOU* personally will make Australia less safe if you move here. Not to mention the message it sends to existing muslim residents - since you contribute to a muslim population that is apparently too high - you too personally make Australia a more dangerous place.




You tried to boil a general observation down to a specific statement about an individual.
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #63 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:34pm
 
Hi Gandalf,
are you embarrassed that we already spend over $1 billion per annum on fighting Islamic terrorism?

That is to say - people living right here in Australia who are plotting terrorist attacks on us?
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #64 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:53pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:34pm:
Hi Gandalf,
are you embarrassed that we already spend over $1 billion per annum on fighting Islamic terrorism?

That is to say - people living right here in Australia who are plotting terrorist attacks on us?


It's pretty stupid, considering the vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #65 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:53pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:34pm:
Hi Gandalf,
are you embarrassed that we already spend over $1 billion per annum on fighting Islamic terrorism?

That is to say - people living right here in Australia who are plotting terrorist attacks on us?


It's pretty stupid, considering the vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.





Rubbish - the only people plotting terrorist attacks against us are Muslims living in Australia.
It costs us over $1 billion to monitor them.
Many have been arrested and found guilty -
they are in supermax prisons.
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #66 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:13pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:53pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:34pm:
Hi Gandalf,
are you embarrassed that we already spend over $1 billion per annum on fighting Islamic terrorism?

That is to say - people living right here in Australia who are plotting terrorist attacks on us?


It's pretty stupid, considering the vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.





Rubbish - the only people plotting terrorist attacks against us are Muslims living in Australia.
It costs us over $1 billion to monitor them.
Many have been arrested and found guilty -
they are in supermax prisons.


No.

It's an indisputable fact.

The vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

Why do you continue to lie, Bobby?
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #67 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:33pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:26pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm:
I guess the distinction was too subtle for you.


Perhaps. My understanding of the distinction you were trying to draw was between saying 'any and every new muslim immigrant personally increases the security risk' and 'an increase in muslim immigration in general necessarily increases the risk - based on the idea that in all muslim populations contain a certain proportion of a subset that is a security threat - and therefore that subset would necessarily increase' - is that correct?

If so, then I maintain she meant, or at least implied the former, when she stated that the size of the muslim population in and of itself determines the terrorist threat level, and therefore formed the justification of her call to ban muslim immigration.

There was no nuance there, no attempt to distinguish any such subsets, or consider any other factors that may contribute to the risk level (in contrast to Bolt). Whatever you say she might have been thinking (but didn't bother to articulate), her words taken at face value literally say to any peace loving, law abiding muslim who intends to immigrate to Australia - *YOU* personally will make Australia less safe if you move here. Not to mention the message it sends to existing muslim residents - since you contribute to a muslim population that is apparently too high - you too personally make Australia a more dangerous place.




You tried to boil a general observation down to a specific statement about an individual.


I disagree. What I "boil it down to" is correlating increased muslim population with increased terrorist threat, without consideration of any other factors. I don't think anyone's disputing that was the meaning of the statement are they?

From that, I make the simple observation that to any individual muslim who is part of that increase, they can rightly conclude that they personally are being blamed for an increased terrorist threat. And I don't see how anyone can objectively and rationally dispute that.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #68 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:20pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:13pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:53pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:34pm:
Hi Gandalf,
are you embarrassed that we already spend over $1 billion per annum on fighting Islamic terrorism?

That is to say - people living right here in Australia who are plotting terrorist attacks on us?


It's pretty stupid, considering the vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.





Rubbish - the only people plotting terrorist attacks against us are Muslims living in Australia.
It costs us over $1 billion to monitor them.
Many have been arrested and found guilty -
they are in supermax prisons.


No.

It's an indisputable fact.

The vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

Why do you continue to lie, Bobby
?


More Trollop from under the bridge.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #69 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:26pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:13pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:10pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:53pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:34pm:
Hi Gandalf,
are you embarrassed that we already spend over $1 billion per annum on fighting Islamic terrorism?

That is to say - people living right here in Australia who are plotting terrorist attacks on us?


It's pretty stupid, considering the vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.





Rubbish - the only people plotting terrorist attacks against us are Muslims living in Australia.
It costs us over $1 billion to monitor them.
Many have been arrested and found guilty -
they are in supermax prisons.


No.

It's an indisputable fact.

The vast majority of terrorist attacks in Australia (and the rest of the western world) have had absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

Why do you continue to lie, Bobby?


Bobby: why do you keep spreading lies?

Is it an illness?

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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #70 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 2:33pm:
issuevoter wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:
Kruger's comment for which she was condemned was about the number of incidents of Islamic terrorism being related to the number of Muzlums in the population, a statistic that is hard to refute.


And yet even Andrew Bolt managed to refute it.


Andrew Bolt? How fascinating. But the statistics still stand. Islamic terror is more common where Muslums are in greater numbers. Viz, France.
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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #71 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:47pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 2:33pm:
issuevoter wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:
Kruger's comment for which she was condemned was about the number of incidents of Islamic terrorism being related to the number of Muzlums in the population, a statistic that is hard to refute.


And yet even Andrew Bolt managed to refute it.


Andrew Bolt? How fascinating. But the statistics still stand. Islamic terror is more common where Muslums are in greater numbers. Viz, France.


Except in Germany, which apparently has even more muslims than France, but less Islamic terror. Why is that? Thats the point Bolt attempted to address - and pointed out in the process that it is not a simplistic correlation of number of muslims with rate of Islamic terror.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #72 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:47pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:33pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 2:33pm:
issuevoter wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:
Kruger's comment for which she was condemned was about the number of incidents of Islamic terrorism being related to the number of Muzlums in the population, a statistic that is hard to refute.


And yet even Andrew Bolt managed to refute it.


Andrew Bolt? How fascinating. But the statistics still stand. Islamic terror is more common where Muslums are in greater numbers. Viz, France.


Most terrorism in France has nothing to do with Muslims.

In fact, in all of Europe, Islamic terrorism only accounts for 16% of all attacks.

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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #73 - Feb 22nd, 2019 at 10:09pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 9:18pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:33pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 8:26pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 7:47pm:
I guess the distinction was too subtle for you.


Perhaps. My understanding of the distinction you were trying to draw was between saying 'any and every new muslim immigrant personally increases the security risk' and 'an increase in muslim immigration in general necessarily increases the risk - based on the idea that in all muslim populations contain a certain proportion of a subset that is a security threat - and therefore that subset would necessarily increase' - is that correct?

If so, then I maintain she meant, or at least implied the former, when she stated that the size of the muslim population in and of itself determines the terrorist threat level, and therefore formed the justification of her call to ban muslim immigration.

There was no nuance there, no attempt to distinguish any such subsets, or consider any other factors that may contribute to the risk level (in contrast to Bolt). Whatever you say she might have been thinking (but didn't bother to articulate), her words taken at face value literally say to any peace loving, law abiding muslim who intends to immigrate to Australia - *YOU* personally will make Australia less safe if you move here. Not to mention the message it sends to existing muslim residents - since you contribute to a muslim population that is apparently too high - you too personally make Australia a more dangerous place.




You tried to boil a general observation down to a specific statement about an individual.


I disagree.


Disagree all you want. That's still what you did.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 2:28pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 1:10pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 12:07pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 11:25am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 22nd, 2019 at 11:11am:
The take home message I got from the ruling was that saying that we have an unacceptable Islamic terrorist threat based on nothing other than citing the number of muslim in Australia - is unacceptable and amounts to vilifying muslims.


Do you think he shook his fist at them?


If you are asking me if any meaningful action was taken, the answer is no.

However you can deliver a meaningful message that is useful in its own right - without needing to take any specific action.

Do you agree that merely citing the size of the Australian muslim community (500 thousand) is an insufficient justification on its own for labelling the entire community a security threat, and is an unfair slur on individual law-abiding muslims, and therefore amounts to vilification?


How is it 'useful'? Do you mean the bit about the African Muslims being the real problem?


I don't think the ruling stated that African Muslims are the real problem. It cited Andrew Bolt and gave him some credit for at least attempting to argue that there is more to the issue than just raw numbers. Try and think of it from the perspective of a normal, peaceful law abiding muslim. The notion that more muslims = more security threat, without any consideration of other factors is pretty offensive (apart from being baseless). If you happen to be one of those muslims planning on moving to Australia - it is literally saying that if you move to this country, Australia will become just that little bit more dangerous because you moved here.

At least Bolt made an attempt to say "its not as simple as that".

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Re: Sonia Kruger
Reply #74 - Feb 23rd, 2019 at 3:26pm
 
gandalf wrote Reply #57 - Yesterday at 7:14pm
Quote:
moses, an honest question: do you consider such laws as Dueteronomy 22:13-21 morally unacceptable? If so, how do you reconcile the fact that the same God of post 2019 years ago apparently thought they were acceptable until 2019 years ago? Nay not merely acceptable, but compulsory?

Was pre 2019 BCE humanity really that much different as to require a completely different moral compass to that required by post 2019 BCE humanity?


Dueteronomy 1:1 These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red sea, between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab.

Moses was speaking as a man who preached what mankind accepted as the Mosaic law of the day in those times. (about 3500 years ago)

Yes civilization was cruel and barbaric in those times, the ancient Egyptians used all kinds of torture as their punishment (skinning people alive was a favourite), look at the way the Romans tortured people in the coliseums letting animals tear defenceless humans to bits while still alive, soaking people in tar and setting them alight, crucifying people, all for spectator sport, look at the human sacrifice of those who worshipped baal, mothers who willingly had their first child burnt to death as a sacrifice to baal, look at the human sacrifice of the Aztecs etc.etc.etc..


You asked? Were people different in those times?

I ask, are you fair dinkum? You don't know the difference between civilization in those times and now?

Yes Christ was the one who ushered in the extinction of Mosaic law.

The N.T. teaches that the law achieved nothing, that man cannot be saved or justified by the law.

You are desperately looking for an out for the pure evil in the qur'an gandi, by continually trying to tell us that the ancient outdated & revoked Mosaic law is somehow still relevant.

Your *book* tells you to rape,crucify, torture and kill people gandi, that's the sole reason we have islamic terrorism today 2019.

It's up to you and others, to renounce the multitude of evil in your book gandi (for that is the only way you will ever defeat islamic terrorism).

But that puts you between a rock and a hard spot, you are told that the book with all its' evil intent / content is the unchangeable infallible words of allah.

So instead of doing the right thing and repudiating the evil in the book, you continually look for excuses.

The truth is that muhammad took muslims backwards, you are no further advanced in human rights than the ancient Aztecs, Romans, Egyptians, the worshipers of baal, you're right there with them gandi.

Your problem is exclusively a muslim / islam one gandi, it's got absolutely nothing to do with outdated Mosaic law, Hindu law, Buddhist law, Christianity, witchcraft, paganism etc. etc (You name it here).

Your qur'an is the problem gandi, you'll never solve your predicament until you denounce the evil in it.   

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