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People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws. (Read 1628 times)
PZ547
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #15 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:03pm
 
.
What would happen if the government ran something similar to the 'Yes' vote re: gay marriage?  A poll, an open-enquiry, inviting all Australians to say -- perhaps anonymously -- if they'd been sexually molested up to age, say, 16, with an additional box to tick if the molester/rapist had been a parent/parent figure.  To give researchers, government bodies and others some idea as to how common the problem is

Currently, figures are arrived at through reported instances and even those figures are alarming.  Research estimates that at least half such incidents remain unreported
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.JaSin.
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #16 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:14pm
 
Aussie wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:44pm:
Why not post yours, El Turdo marrón apestoso.


Sorry to disappoint, I have none, other than those I know of professionally and what I have read since I retired.

I have a ripper of a professional tale, but I'll keep it in reserve for later.


I'll keep mine in reserve for later too.
I'm ready to do my Ali counter-punch on Aussie after he unloads his 'tale' on everyone.

Did I just put forth an act of violence onto Aussie if he posted 'his tale' later?
Well, now - I guess when it does indeed come to the
El Turdo marrón apestoso
- he is automatically 'guilty as charged' and deserves everything he gets coming to him by a vast 'majority' of Members here. Or would he like to put it to a Poll?  Huh
The thing about Aussie is, that he is no 'Ex-Lawyer' anymore.
He's just a 'Scammer' now (the 'Criminal' of the Court).
Embracing the new technology of the Net to further his cause for power and wealth.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #17 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:43pm
 
.JaSin. wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:44pm:
Why not post yours, El Turdo marrón apestoso.


Sorry to disappoint, I have none, other than those I know of professionally and what I have read since I retired.

I have a ripper of a professional tale, but I'll keep it in reserve for later.


I'll keep mine in reserve for later too.
I'm ready to do my Ali counter-punch on Aussie after he unloads his 'tale' on everyone.

Did I just put forth an act of violence onto Aussie if he posted 'his tale' later?
Well, now - I guess when it does indeed come to the
El Turdo marrón apestoso
- he is automatically 'guilty as charged' and deserves everything he gets coming to him by a vast 'majority' of Members here. Or would he like to put it to a Poll?  Huh
The thing about Aussie is, that he is no 'Ex-Lawyer' anymore.
He's just a 'Scammer' now (the 'Criminal' of the Court).
Embracing the new technology of the Net to further his cause for power and wealth.


Better still - let's not make it personal in any way... BTW - Aussie lambasted me for my pious attitude and high horse etc yesterday for suggesting that we do the same - so feel free to join in.. it's all water off a duck's back to me...

Let's leave the personal spite out of it...  Cool
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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.JaSin.
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #18 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:47pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:43pm:
.JaSin. wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:44pm:
Why not post yours, El Turdo marrón apestoso.


Sorry to disappoint, I have none, other than those I know of professionally and what I have read since I retired.

I have a ripper of a professional tale, but I'll keep it in reserve for later.


I'll keep mine in reserve for later too.
I'm ready to do my Ali counter-punch on Aussie after he unloads his 'tale' on everyone.

Did I just put forth an act of violence onto Aussie if he posted 'his tale' later?
Well, now - I guess when it does indeed come to the
El Turdo marrón apestoso
- he is automatically 'guilty as charged' and deserves everything he gets coming to him by a vast 'majority' of Members here. Or would he like to put it to a Poll?  Huh
The thing about Aussie is, that he is no 'Ex-Lawyer' anymore.
He's just a 'Scammer' now (the 'Criminal' of the Court).
Embracing the new technology of the Net to further his cause for power and wealth.


Better still - let's not make it personal in any way... BTW - Aussie lambasted me for my pious attitude and high horse etc yesterday for suggesting that we do the same - so feel free to join in.. it's all water off a duck's back to me...

Let's leave the personal spite out of it...  Cool


For you most honorable Ye Grappler.
I will forfeit my above post in this Topic.
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PZ547
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #19 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:53pm
 
.
Imagine how different the world would be if diks, from the outset, had been located in the middle of guys'  backs
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.JaSin.
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #20 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:56pm
 
PZ547 wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:53pm:
.
Imagine how different the world would be if diks, from the outset, had been located in the middle of guys'  backs


Women of the world would be saying to us "Giddy Up!" and taking us all for the ride of our lives!
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greggerypeccary
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #21 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:56pm
 
PZ547 wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:53pm:
.
Imagine how different the world would be if diks, from the outset, had been located in the middle of guys'  backs


...

...
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.JaSin.
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #22 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 1:03pm
 
You got a problem with
PEACEFUL SOLUTIONS
?
Eh, Peckerhead?
You are such social suckback!  Roll Eyes
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Ye Grappler
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #23 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 1:11pm
 
.JaSin. wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:47pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:43pm:
.JaSin. wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 12:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Gordon wrote on Feb 10th, 2019 at 2:44pm:
Why not post yours, El Turdo marrón apestoso.


Sorry to disappoint, I have none, other than those I know of professionally and what I have read since I retired.

I have a ripper of a professional tale, but I'll keep it in reserve for later.


I'll keep mine in reserve for later too.
I'm ready to do my Ali counter-punch on Aussie after he unloads his 'tale' on everyone.

Did I just put forth an act of violence onto Aussie if he posted 'his tale' later?
Well, now - I guess when it does indeed come to the
El Turdo marrón apestoso
- he is automatically 'guilty as charged' and deserves everything he gets coming to him by a vast 'majority' of Members here. Or would he like to put it to a Poll?  Huh
The thing about Aussie is, that he is no 'Ex-Lawyer' anymore.
He's just a 'Scammer' now (the 'Criminal' of the Court).
Embracing the new technology of the Net to further his cause for power and wealth.


Better still - let's not make it personal in any way... BTW - Aussie lambasted me for my pious attitude and high horse etc yesterday for suggesting that we do the same - so feel free to join in.. it's all water off a duck's back to me...

Let's leave the personal spite out of it...  Cool


For you most honorable Ye Grappler.
I will forfeit my above post in this Topic.



I knew there was a heart of gold in there............. yesterday I sort of defended Greg, and Aussie went for me... oh, well... too much backplay going on....

"Interference with the player off the ball.... fifteen yard penalty.. first down..."
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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PZ547
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #24 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 1:28pm
 
The OP didn't provide links or really any indication of what we were intended to draw from it, although it seems it touches on DV laws -- domestic violence

Ok. In Qld, until 1988 I believe, it was open slather for violent offenders in the home

Another neighbour, second marriage, working mother, five kids in all.  Three of his and two of hers

Once she married him, he changed. He was no longer forced to pick his kids up from school, do the grocery route, make the dinner, supervise homework, take kids to extracurricular activities, etc.  All that fell on the second wife

He arrived home late and drunk as had become his habit. He enjoyed turning up his stereo to full pelt and too bad about homework or younger kids being in bed

She protested by retreating.  He went looking for her. He was angry with someone or something which had occurred at the club/pub and had taken it home as had already become evident

Worried about escalation, she gathered the kids and prepared to take them to a motel nearby for the night.  He wrenched her hands and fingers until she was forced to release her car's keys.  He smashed the phone (dial-up) when she tried to call for help

More to drink and he tried to snap her forearm over his knee, talking to himself, 'Why isn't this working? It's supposed to break '.  He told the kids he'd been trained how to break arms in the Army Reserve. He was apparently chuckling to himself.  Kids were white faced in shock. The woman told them throughout that it was ok, don't worry, because it 'wasn't really hurting'

The kids started screaming.  He took off -- bit more to drink.  One of the kids ran to a neighbour to call the police

Police sauntered up, two of them.  No hurry.  Took the husband aside and asked what gives.  He was swigging a stubbie, laughed it off, said it was nothing, just she was a pain and he'd shouted a bit

Cops entered the house.  Woman was there, plus neighbour and the kids, half hiding behind stuff.  One cop bailed up the woman, said the husband had claimed it was nothing and all her fault.  Woman read the coppers mood straight away as did neighbour

Woman said, 'Look at me.  Tell me it's nothing'.  Her work outfit looked as if she'd been in an accident -- buttons torn off, one shoe missing, hair ripped out, etc.  Her throat and chest were still red raw. The unbroken arm at that point showed no injury -- she didn't even mention it

Cop on his own now while the other one was chatting amiably with the husband out on the lawn.  Cop inside the house assumed he was judge and jury.  Demanded of the woman, 'What did you do to make him turn on you?' or words to that effect.  Woman replied, ' I was here when he got home'.  Cop took another tack -- 'Why do you reckon he did it ?'.  She replied, 'Because he enjoys it'.

Cops weren't satisfied. They seemed to like the husband and didn't like the wife and didn't appear to want to do anything.  So they asked which of the kids were the husband's biological children. And from those, they chose the youngest and least likely to provide a coherent account about her own father.  But the little girl surprised everyone by telling the cops exactly what had happened, including the attempted arm-snapping and said everything had been fine and peaceful until Dad came home

Cops were not pleased.  Told the wife in an unfriendly voice that they'd be taking her husband away to cool down for the night.  Off they went with the husband

Woman and the kids were still shaky and in shock, especially the little ones who'd been in bed when it started.  So the woman suggested they make some pikelets, which cheered them up

Ten minutes later, just when they were beginning to relax a bit, they heard the sound of a car in the driveway.  Headlights.  The husband and father was staggering drunkenly towards the house.  Terrified, the woman's neighbour ran to her own house and phoned the police to say the husband had returned and was growling, drunk, was pointing into the house and the gathered wife and kids and looked 'evil'.  Weren't the police supposed to have taken him away for the night, she asked.  Police voice down the phone dismissed her concerns and snapped that they had better things to do than run back and forth to the house all night -- so 'just don't annoy him'.

Fortunately, the husband had caught a taxi back to his house to get his own car.  He took off in his own car minutes later.  Next day, he pretended to his family and neighbours alike that nothing had happened. He just brass-necked it through.  Police never followed up

It wasn't until 1988, apparently, that police in Qld were required to remove violent domestic offenders.  Until then, cops usually told women and kids there was 'nothing we can do' -- until copious bloodshed and at least a body resulted

Now there are claims that DV laws are being gamed and no doubt they are.  But there's a long way to go before the gaming catches up with the inequality which was sanctioned for hundreds of years prior
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PZ547
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #25 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 1:36pm
 
.
Good one Greg  Grin
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Ye Grappler
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #26 - Feb 11th, 2019 at 10:48pm
 
It would be all right if we were talking only about genuinely violent offenders - we are not when we are discussing 'domestic violence laws' - even though far too many assume that because of the title, this means violence has taken place.

Genuinely violent offenders were, as I wrote to the nsw law reform commission in 1992, already subject to laws of assault, and any 'law' that claimed to be a preventative for violence - i.e. one that acted on the vague possibility that violence may occur but had not done so - was illegal and was itself an act of violence.

That is the root cause of the escalating violence between women and men..... and pushing it harder will not alter that, only create more violence.

You cannot achieve peace in the Pacific by bombing Pearl Harbour.   Roll Eyes

Now the subject was the way some people use these 'laws' to gain advantage - that they are permitted and even encouraged to do so is cruel and unconscionable, and the only solution is to abolish these 'laws' and create new ones that accurately reflect realities and give genuinely equal treatment to all parties - as Law demands.
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goosecat
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #27 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 1:41am
 
PZ547 wrote on Feb 11th, 2019 at 1:28pm:
Now there are claims that DV laws are being gamed and no doubt they are.  But there's a long way to go before the gaming catches up with the inequality which was sanctioned for hundreds of years prior

I've bee hunting around this DV issue a bit as it seems to be I find myself somewhat surrounded nowadays by broken families of one sort or another. If we want to get into sheer absolute numbers of real DV cases as you seem intent on then you might want to do some real genuine analysis rather then continue to propagate that which has been fed by the mainstream media.
For starters the numbers of actual DV cases in relationships is not as portrayed. Australia's own government puts the estimate at around 15%. Too high no doubt, but the way it is portrayed in the media right now it seems forgotten that the corresponding reality is that 85% of all relationships are fine in this area. It seems currently that the popular position to uphold and propagate is that ALL men are evil and violate women, that is simply an utter untruth.
In the USA the government figures state roughly 25% of divorces list intimate partner violence as reason for initiating divorce. (Allen DW, Brinig M. Anticipated and unanticipated legal changes: The case of joint parenting. Unpublished manuscript, February 2007. Table 7, Column 2)
Roughly 70% of these are deemed to be unnecessary or false (Johnston J et al. Allegations and substantiations of abuse in custody-disputing families.Family Court Review, Vol. 43, No. 2.)
Foster BP. Analyzing the cost and effectiveness of governmental policies. Cost Management, Vol. 22, No. 3.)

Do some figures in your head and work out just how many real cases of DV actually exist in real figures. Also note that real figures show there are more made up reported DV cases then actual reported DV cases. That's what 70 percent of DV allegations being found to be unnecessary or false means.
The list goes on and on once you start looking but these true figures are not disseminated in the media or to the generally ignorant uninformed public who think they know something but actually have no real idea.
Now I'm a married man with a young daughter and believe the blokes who revert to this type of stuff can be strung up as far I'm concerned HOWEVER. I am sick and tired of being told everywhere I look that men are evil, women "bashers" who need to be struck down in some way as some sort of payback. Comments like yours above are a classic example of the way it filters through all sections of the community. Stating to the effect we don't need to worry about the innocent falsely accused as it doesn't make up for the years of those not held to account,is absolutely disgusting in my view. It is no different to saying well they abused you so abuse them back, because we all know two wrongs make a right Angry
I could rattle off just as many personal cases of friends and relatives I happen to know right now who have been destroyed by either proven or suspected false allegations of violence. Not the least of which include the 10 year old and 8 year old daughters of a family friend I have been asked to provide a stable, "good" male influence for and are here right now at the suggestion of case workers as they are struggling terribly and longing for a father I actually believe has been falsely accused of DV. Or the friends who have donated over twenty years of their lives to fostering more then twenty severly abused children, removed from proven violent, incapable or incarcerated parents, who have just completed the year from hell due to now legally proven false allegations from one of their own adopted daughters. Unfortunately this girl had a terrible start to life (drug addict mother) and despite my friends best efforts including eventual adoption and years of treatment ended up in a bikie drug den owing lots of money. She reverted to accusing her foster dad of sexual impropriety to extort money from her own step dad. She even got the bikies to assist her and threaten her step dad before it all came out.  It was sheer hell but of course they stood resilient until the truth was discovered. The male had to actually leave his own house and own "paternal" kids for a year as they were deemed at risk as well during the whole ordeal. Absolutely soul destroying for everyone, not to mention the exposed young kids to the whole farce and sheer maliciousness of it all. The system allows this.
I can raise more cases believe me. The system is absolutely broken. There has been an assumption during its creation by complete imbecile intelligentsia that somehow women are not as capable as  men when it comes to taking advantage of others or scheming and manipulating. What a sexist diatribe that is. Women have always been as capable as men in this area. Even social sciences suggest women are far better at it actually as the skill has been needed, developed and wielded by an otherwise physically weaker mate.
The system is most certainly terminal as it stands. There are so many laws and regulations in place it seems impossible the west could find a way back to some semblance of equal ACCOUNTABILITY  in this area. Especially when there are ever growing numbers of under educated, lower IQ individuals laying claim to some semblance of expertise and knowledge in the area disseminating the current apparent man hate throughout the west in general.
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cods
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #28 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 5:30am
 
I can raise more cases believe me. The system is absolutely broken. There has been an assumption during its creation by complete imbecile intelligentsia that somehow women are not as capable as  men when it comes to taking advantage of others or scheming and manipulating. What a sexist diatribe that is. Women have always been as capable as men in this area. Even social sciences suggest women are far better at it actually as the skill has been needed, developed and wielded by an otherwise physically weaker mate.
The system is most certainly terminal as it stands. There are so many laws and regulations in place it seems impossible the west could find a way back to some semblance of equal ACCOUNTABILITY  in this area. Especially when there are ever growing numbers of under educated, lower IQ individuals laying claim to some semblance of expertise and knowledge in the area disseminating the current apparent man hate throughout the west in general.



of course you can goosecat.. most of us can even today men are being released from jail after many years  when they have suddenly been found NOT GUILTY.. this happens quite often.....are you suggesting we do not jail people now incase as time goes by they may be proved to be innocent....

where do you draw a line....a father has been accused by either child or another adult.....

would you suggest we leave the father in the family home until .. A VERDICT! someone has decided someone is lying..

how would you protect the father and the children???...

I have already said we need penalties for women who abuse the law and make false claims  and yes it should be harsh.....

but as well you know   not all accusations are LIES.      
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Ye Grappler
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Re: People 'gaming' the domestic violence Laws.
Reply #29 - Feb 12th, 2019 at 7:40am
 
cods wrote on Feb 12th, 2019 at 5:30am:
I can raise more cases believe me. The system is absolutely broken. There has been an assumption during its creation by complete imbecile intelligentsia that somehow women are not as capable as  men when it comes to taking advantage of others or scheming and manipulating. What a sexist diatribe that is. Women have always been as capable as men in this area. Even social sciences suggest women are far better at it actually as the skill has been needed, developed and wielded by an otherwise physically weaker mate.
The system is most certainly terminal as it stands. There are so many laws and regulations in place it seems impossible the west could find a way back to some semblance of equal ACCOUNTABILITY  in this area. Especially when there are ever growing numbers of under educated, lower IQ individuals laying claim to some semblance of expertise and knowledge in the area disseminating the current apparent man hate throughout the west in general.



of course you can goosecat.. most of us can even today men are being released from jail after many years  when they have suddenly been found NOT GUILTY.. this happens quite often.....are you suggesting we do not jail people now incase as time goes by they may be proved to be innocent....

where do you draw a line....a father has been accused by either child or another adult.....

would you suggest we leave the father in the family home until .. A VERDICT! someone has decided someone is lying..

how would you protect the father and the children???...

I have already said we need penalties for women who abuse the law and make false claims  and yes it should be harsh.....

but as well you know   not all accusations are LIES.      


Yes, cods - you are on the Light Side here... can anyone imagine the pain a man goes through from being accused of such things, and from being torn from his children?  Savagery at its very lowest, and should be punished by law, not just:- 'Oh, well ...  (wait for it)...... girls will be girls and bitch about blokes!"

These bastard courts are encouraging women to do these things and get away with it, and don't try to tell me it's not part of The Agenda.

When somewhere around 10% are clinical nutters - how do you ever arrive at truth?  Then there are the ones who chase 'bad boys' and then have 'issues' for life.... avoid like the plague ANY woman who tells you tales of how horrible her hubby (or equivalent) was, especially when they are clear drug users etc, either past or present.... they live in an insane world and are insane.

Look at the strand on whether or not reality is optional these days... in the Land of Liars even kids learn how to lie in the approved way using the right words - I've seen it.  Now someone tell me the schools have nothing to do with it.... and The Agenda.

War on Men has to be stopped - I tweeted that to Shorten and got heaps of thumbs-ups.. often from women.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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