Australian Politics Forum - Shorten will destroy Australia

Bam

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #75 - Feb 9^th, 2019 at 10:15pm

crocodile wrote on Feb 9^th, 2019 at 10:01pm:

I think not. I see that you are still unable to answer a vexing but rather simple question. That being, how does a comparitively smaller labour force deal with the production requirements of everybody. It isn't difficult to understand.

Stop rationing jobs. People who want to work should be allowed to do so. We don't have a labour shortage in Australia, we have a chronic jobs shortage. Start by banning unpaid overtime, abolishing all forms of slavery and implementing a job guarantee.

Automation of some current jobs is coming. This will account for any future shrinking of the workforce.

Cut the cost of living by decentralising jobs. It's stupid how we're trying to cram half Australia's population into less than one percent of the landmass while rural towns are dying.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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red baron

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #76 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:15am

Shorten's unbridled grab for retiree's incomes with the 'franking business' on company tax

This will rip around $5,000 (average) out of modest incomes that retirees, people on modest incomes who have provided for their own retirement, receive

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

By doing this these retirees save the community from providing them with aged pensions

With his wrecking ball approach, which in no way punishes the wealthy. Shorten is going to encourage people who have saved for their retirement to go and blow their money then put their hands out for the Government for a pension

Is this in the interests of the Country...NO! It is downright irresponsible and will create a future enormous drain on the economy

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Dnarever

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #77 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:34am

red baron wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:15am:

Shorten's unbridled grab for retiree's incomes with the 'franking business' on company tax

This will rip around $5,000 (average) out of modest incomes that retirees, people on modest incomes who have provided for their own retirement, receive

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

By doing this these retirees save the community from providing them with aged pensions

With his wrecking ball approach, which in no way punishes the wealthy. Shorten is going to encourage people who have saved for their retirement to go and blow their money then put their hands out for the Government for a pension

Is this in the interests of the Country...NO! It is downright irresponsible and will create a future enormous drain on the economy

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

While this area is grey as well as dependant on static investments there is also the point that investment under 850,000 are entitled to part pensions and any reduction in the income results in an increase in that part pension.

The way I see it is that if having an investment with pre paid tax becomes an disincentive the option to not take that type of investment will be made available.

People will simply re gear their investments. If the tax isn't paid there is no need to refund it and the income is still below the taxable level.

Don't get me wrong I think this change is incredibly stupid, just that I doubt in the end it will make much difference to smart people.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Shorten will destroy Australia Reply #78 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 9:18am Wealthfare exceeds any welfare by large margin.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #79 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 9:47am

Could be a good thing the way it's been going for forty years or so..... since the 'feminist' days.... funny that. We'll replace a fiasco of a nation (a wrecked silly nation started by the government of national reconciliation) where good men die like dogs and vultures and parasites run free, with one in which good men die like dogs and feminists and minorities run free while the nation goes to the dogs....

Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumber. A nation caught between the devil and the deep blue sea...... with nowhere to run....

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Captain Nemo

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #80 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 10:35am

Dnarever wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:34am:

red baron wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:15am:

Shorten's unbridled grab for retiree's incomes with the 'franking business' on company tax

This will rip around $5,000 (average) out of modest incomes that retirees, people on modest incomes who have provided for their own retirement, receive

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

By doing this these retirees save the community from providing them with aged pensions

With his wrecking ball approach, which in no way punishes the wealthy. Shorten is going to encourage people who have saved for their retirement to go and blow their money then put their hands out for the Government for a pension

Is this in the interests of the Country...NO! It is downright irresponsible and will create a future enormous drain on the economy

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

While this area is grey as well as dependant on static investments there is also the point that investment under 850,000 are entitled to part pensions and any reduction in the income results in an increase in that part pension.

The way I see it is that if having an investment with pre paid tax becomes an disincentive the option to not take that type of investment will be made available.

People will simply re gear their investments. If the tax isn't paid there is no need to refund it and the income is still below the taxable level.

Don't get me wrong I think this change is incredibly stupid, just that I doubt in the end it will make much difference to smart people.

It would be interesting if all those affected by Shorty's and Bowen's plan moved out of Franked Shares ... then Shorty and Bowen would be left with a $5 Billion black hole in their annual budget.
Grin

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The 2025 election WAS a shocker.

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Dnarever

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #81 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 10:40am

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 10:35am:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:34am:

red baron wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:15am:

Shorten's unbridled grab for retiree's incomes with the 'franking business' on company tax

This will rip around $5,000 (average) out of modest incomes that retirees, people on modest incomes who have provided for their own retirement, receive

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

By doing this these retirees save the community from providing them with aged pensions

With his wrecking ball approach, which in no way punishes the wealthy. Shorten is going to encourage people who have saved for their retirement to go and blow their money then put their hands out for the Government for a pension

Is this in the interests of the Country...NO! It is downright irresponsible and will create a future enormous drain on the economy

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

While this area is grey as well as dependant on static investments there is also the point that investment under 850,000 are entitled to part pensions and any reduction in the income results in an increase in that part pension.

The way I see it is that if having an investment with pre paid tax becomes an disincentive the option to not take that type of investment will be made available.

People will simply re gear their investments. If the tax isn't paid there is no need to refund it and the income is still below the taxable level.

Don't get me wrong I think this change is incredibly stupid, just that I doubt in the end it will make much difference to smart people.

It would be interesting if all those affected by Shorty's and Bowen's plan moved out of Franked Shares ... then Shorty and Bowen would be left with a $5 Billion black hole in their annual budget.
Grin

Almost a certain outcome, one of the reasons that the policy is very poor.

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stunspore Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5097 Gender:	Re: Shorten will destroy Australia Reply #82 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 10:44am How about we eliminate tax collection all together? Makes everyone (libs especially) happy?
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crocodile Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6683 Gender:	Re: Shorten will destroy Australia Reply #83 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:10am stunspore wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 10:44am: How about we eliminate tax collection all together? Makes everyone (libs especially) happy? At least eliminate corporate tax. The burden falls mostly to labour anyway. You're all kidding yourselves.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78165 Gender:	Re: Shorten will destroy Australia Reply #84 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:23am crocodile wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:10am: At least eliminate corporate tax sure, when companies stop using our infrastructure, police, customs, fire services, water, electricity, etc etc etc. then I'll vote to ban corporate taxes. Until then they can contribute like everyone else.
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crocodile

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #85 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:39am

John Smith wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:23am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:10am:

At least eliminate corporate tax

sure, when companies stop using our infrastructure, police, customs, fire services, water, electricity, etc etc etc. then I'll vote to ban corporate taxes.

Until then they can contribute like everyone else.

None of that matters. The greatest burden falls to labour so you're paying for it anyway while the owners of the capital pay less.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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John Smith

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #86 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:41am

crocodile wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:39am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:23am:

crocodile wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:10am:

At least eliminate corporate tax

sure, when companies stop using our infrastructure, police, customs, fire services, water, electricity, etc etc etc. then I'll vote to ban corporate taxes.

Until then they can contribute like everyone else.

None of that matters. The greatest burden falls to labour so you're paying for it anyway while the owners of the capital pay less.

not to you. It matters to me. Just because I already have the greatest burden, that doesn't mean I should take all the burden.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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PZ547 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9282 Gender:	Re: Shorten will destroy Australia Reply #87 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:45am . Well, it's Shorten's TURN You can't expect the LNP to shoulder the entire burden of destroying what's left of Oz They take it in turns. Pass the Parcel. Musical Chairs
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Bam

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #88 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:51am

red baron wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 8:15am:

Shorten's unbridled grab for retiree's incomes with the 'franking business' on company tax

This will rip around $5,000 (average) out of modest incomes that retirees, people on modest incomes who have provided for their own retirement, receive

This comes from interest from their incomes on invested funds, the average sum is $400,000

By doing this these retirees save the community from providing them with aged pensions

With his wrecking ball approach, which in no way punishes the wealthy. Shorten is going to encourage people who have saved for their retirement to go and blow their money then put their hands out for the Government for a pension

Is this in the interests of the Country...NO! It is downright irresponsible and will create a future enormous drain on the economy

You've not been watching very closely when the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government have tried cutting the aged pension in various ways in every single Budget they've handed down. I have not seen any government that has been so hostile to aged pensioners with cuts, cuts and more cuts.

And you think cutting back on the wealthfare of refundable franking credits is "irresponsible"? Hardly. What's irresponsible is leaving this largesse in the Budget, to grow and grow and grow, year on year, at rates greater than inflation, racking up more and more debt that has to be paid for by everyone else. It's not sustainable so it has to go eventually.

Labor's been quite responsible by giving plenty of advance notice. Not like the lying Abbott who specifically said "no change to pensions" before the 2013 election then unleashed a pile of horror cuts on pensioners in the 2014 Budget with no advance warning at all, and more in every Budget since under Abbott and Turnbull.

We've seriously buggered up retirement and pension incomes for retired Australians. It's ludicrous nonsense that retirees on part pensions lose 50 cents in the dollar for every extra dollar they earn, while retirees on far more generous incomes get to keep almost all of their tax-free income. It is blatantly unfair and it's time it was looked at.

A fairer system: abolish the means tests for the aged pension, abolish the tax breaks for self-funded retirees. Everyone of pension age gets the aged pension when they retire, with all the pension benefits, tax free. Any extra income is taxed normally (the first $18200 is not taxed due to the tax free threshold, etc.) This is still bloody generous; they would be earning over $40000 a year before paying any tax and getting a raft of concessions. It wouldn't cost any more than it costs now. The savings would accrue through lower administration costs. Yes there would be winners and losers, but that's normal when a taxation playing field is levelled.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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John Smith

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Re: Shorten will destroy Australia
Reply #89 - Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:54am

Bam wrote on Feb 10^th, 2019 at 11:51am:

It's ludicrous nonsense that retirees on part pensions lose 50 cents in the dollar for every extra dollar they earn, while retirees on far more generous incomes get to keep almost all of their tax-free income. It is blatantly unfair and it's time it was looked at.

A fairer system: abolish the means tests for the aged pension, abolish the tax breaks for self-funded retirees. Everyone of pension age gets the aged pension when they retire, with all the pension benefits, tax free. Any extra income is taxed normally (the first $18200 is not taxed due to the tax free threshold, etc.)

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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