Australian Politics Forum - Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran

Secret Wars

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #15 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:14pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:01pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:45pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

Muslim drug dealers ignore bits of the Quran too, FD, but that doesn't stop decent white people everywhere from blaming Islam.

Muslim drunks, Muslim mortgage brokers, Muslim insurance agents, Muslim suicide bombers, all ignore the bits of the Quran they don't like.

You?

Don't answer that.

That's a good point, it's one that Brian as an apologist uses as a crutch. If a Muslim does something contrary to the Koran, or Islam, (which, is never too clear) they are not weeeely a Muslim, therefore, ipso facto, cos Brian like to throw in a bit of Latin, (even if he doesn't understand it) it's not weeeely Islamic, therefore, ...kiddies can see where the logic is going, ...its nuffin to do wiv Islam.

And Brian is a doctor so he knows. Cool

So, Christians who ignore the "love thy neighbour" bit and the bit about "not throwing the first stone," in the Bible really are Christians afterall, Secret? Moses contends otherwise. What do you think? Is Christian Terrorism anything to do with Christianity or is it counter to Christianity? Mmmmm? Roll Eyes

Moses is a religious numpty, he is as idiotic as anyone else who needs a sky daddy to feel complete or for comfort and guidance.

I can totally accept Christian motivations for such things as bombing abortion clinics.

Where I disagree with you is relativism and relevance. Crusades, your go to apologism, ain't relevent, and Islamic inspired v Christian inspired violence ain't relative.

You defend the excess of Islam, in fact you have declared loudly and proudly that you will not criticise it.

You have dealt yourself out of any debate as biased, as well as being ridiculous in your mental contortions, I have followed your contortions of logic impeccably. Contrary to Islam, therefore not Islamic therefore nuffin to do wiv Islam.

You defend Islam the same way that Moses defends Christianity.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #16 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:29pm

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:01pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:45pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

Muslim drug dealers ignore bits of the Quran too, FD, but that doesn't stop decent white people everywhere from blaming Islam.

Muslim drunks, Muslim mortgage brokers, Muslim insurance agents, Muslim suicide bombers, all ignore the bits of the Quran they don't like.

You?

Don't answer that.

That's a good point, it's one that Brian as an apologist uses as a crutch. If a Muslim does something contrary to the Koran, or Islam, (which, is never too clear) they are not weeeely a Muslim, therefore, ipso facto, cos Brian like to throw in a bit of Latin, (even if he doesn't understand it) it's not weeeely Islamic, therefore, ...kiddies can see where the logic is going, ...its nuffin to do wiv Islam.

And Brian is a doctor so he knows. Cool

So, Christians who ignore the "love thy neighbour" bit and the bit about "not throwing the first stone," in the Bible really are Christians afterall, Secret? Moses contends otherwise. What do you think? Is Christian Terrorism anything to do with Christianity or is it counter to Christianity? Mmmmm? Roll Eyes

Moses is a religious numpty, he is as idiotic as anyone else who needs a sky daddy to feel complete or for comfort and guidance.

I can totally accept Christian motivations for such things as bombing abortion clinics.

Where I disagree with you is relativism and relevance. Crusades, your go to apologism, ain't relevent, and Islamic inspired v Christian inspired violence ain't relative.

You defend the excess of Islam, in fact you have declared loudly and proudly that you will not criticise it.

You have dealt yourself out of any debate as biased, as well as being ridiculous in your mental contortions, I have followed your contortions of logic impeccably. Contrary to Islam, therefore not Islamic therefore nuffin to do wiv Islam.

You defend Islam the same way that Moses defends Christianity.

Why would Moses defend a religion that did not exist when he was supposedly alive? Moses was a Jew, not a Christian and Christianity hadn't even been heard of then. Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Another Islamophobe who is so narrow-minded he reads what he believes I type, rather than what I type. I have never defended Islam at all. I have defended ordinary, everyday, peaceful, law-abiding Muslims from the hatred and bigotry we see all too often displayed on here from Islamophobes. I refuse to criticise Islam because I admit that I am ignorant about it's subtle nuances and idioms - as the overwhelming majority of non-Muslims and many Muslims are. The difference is, I am willing to admit my ignorance, whereas Islamophobes claim they know all about it without question. Muslims have the same rights in our society as any other citizen - a right to worship their religion, to raise their kids, to be Muslims - all within the existing legal framework of our society.

I am unsure why Islamophobes hate Muslims so much. It must be based upon what they believe their religion teaches as against what it actually consists of. Ignorance is the only acceptable excuse and they refuse to admit that so it must just be sheer plain ol' bigotry and hatred, mustn't it? They hate people who are different to them and what they believe is the "norm" for Australians and Australia. Australian Muslims are mainly peaceful, mainly law-abiding (as are most non-Muslims) and well assimilated into our society which is Multicultural and Multireligious in nature. Roll Eyes

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #17 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:29pm

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:45pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

Muslim drug dealers ignore bits of the Quran too, FD, but that doesn't stop decent white people everywhere from blaming Islam.

Muslim drunks, Muslim mortgage brokers, Muslim insurance agents, Muslim suicide bombers, all ignore the bits of the Quran they don't like.

You?

Don't answer that.

That's a good point, it's one that Brian as an apologist uses as a crutch. If a Muslim does something contrary to the Koran, or Islam, (which, is never too clear) they are not weeeely a Muslim, therefore, ipso facto, cos Brian like to throw in a bit of Latin, (even if he doesn't understand it) it's not weeeely Islamic, therefore, ...kiddies can see where the logic is going, ...its nuffin to do wiv Islam.

And Brian is a doctor so he knows. Cool

Strange. That's exactly what Moses, Yadda and the old boy say about Christians who disobey the Bible.

Mind you, they all have clauses. Moses brings up Jesus being tempted by the devil in the desert to encourage Christians to hate, ban and kill the Muselman, which is haram in Christianity. Y says he's not perfect and he'll face his Maker on Judgement Day. The old boy just pretends he's not a Christian.

Mind you, none of them are very fond of Christians who practice Christianity. They call them apologists.

You?

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Secret Wars

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #18 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:37pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:29pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:45pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:32pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

Muslim drug dealers ignore bits of the Quran too, FD, but that doesn't stop decent white people everywhere from blaming Islam.

Muslim drunks, Muslim mortgage brokers, Muslim insurance agents, Muslim suicide bombers, all ignore the bits of the Quran they don't like.

You?

Don't answer that.

That's a good point, it's one that Brian as an apologist uses as a crutch. If a Muslim does something contrary to the Koran, or Islam, (which, is never too clear) they are not weeeely a Muslim, therefore, ipso facto, cos Brian like to throw in a bit of Latin, (even if he doesn't understand it) it's not weeeely Islamic, therefore, ...kiddies can see where the logic is going, ...its nuffin to do wiv Islam.

And Brian is a doctor so he knows. Cool

Strange. That's exactly what Moses, Yadda and the old boy say about Christians who disobey the Bible.

Mind you, they all have clauses. Moses brings up Jesus being tempted by the devil in the desert to encourage Christians to hate, ban and kill the Muselman, which is haram in Christianity. Y says he's not perfect and he'll face his Maker on Judgement Day. The old boy just pretends he's not a Christian.

Mind you, none of them are very fond of Christians who practice Christianity. They call them apologists.

You?

It's not strange at all. Different sides to a single coin. Brian yourself etc are apologists for Islam, Moses and Yadda apologist for Christians.

You even use the same arguments, Moses conjures up the not really Christian, Brian not really Muslim. Brian goes a step further and has loudly and proudly stated his allegiance.

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Secret Wars

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #19 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:46pm

Quote:

I refuse to criticise Islam because I admit that I am ignorant about it's subtle nuances and idioms - as the overwhelming majority of non-Muslims and many Muslims are.

I am not a doctor of divinity, I am happy to accept at face value a Muslim holding a dripping head declaring that he has gone choppy choppy and done it for Jihad and Allan. Especially because that person usually has an internally coherent justification in the scriptures they believe.

I might have missed a few subtle nuances and idioms I admit but then I am looking not for excuses why the head hacking jihadist is not weeeely a Muslim, therefore nuffin to do wiv Islam. And no need for me to do so, you have more than covered the apologism and justifications.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #20 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 2:39pm

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

You've lost me FD. Jihadis kill people by ignoring or rationalising the verses I just mentioned. What exactly is it about that point that you take issue with?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #21 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 3:30pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 11:46am:

Quranic verses that jihadis and Islamophobes alike bypass, ignor or rationalise into something more compatible with their narrow views:

"no compulsion in religion" (2:256)

"The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." (18:29)

"Allah guides those who pursue His pleasure to the ways of peace and brings them out from darknesses into the light, by His permission, and guides them to a straight path." (5:16)

"Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." (2:193)

What about these verses?

Quote:

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction

https://quran.com/4/82

This one sounds like convert or die, does this contradict your peaceful verses?

Quote:

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
https://quran.com/9/5

Does Allah say you cannot pick and choose which verses you believe in, is it a package deal if you want all those houris and an everlasting erection to service them?

Quote:

So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life; and on the Day of Resurrection they will be sent back to the severest of punishment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

https://quran.com/2/85

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #22 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 4:48pm

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:46pm:

Quote:

I refuse to criticise Islam because I admit that I am ignorant about it's subtle nuances and idioms - as the overwhelming majority of non-Muslims and many Muslims are.

I am not a doctor of divinity, I am happy to accept at face value a Muslim holding a dripping head declaring that he has gone choppy choppy and done it for Jihad and Allan. Especially because that person usually has an internally coherent justification in the scriptures they believe.

I might have missed a few subtle nuances and idioms I admit but then I am looking not for excuses why the head hacking jihadist is not weeeely a Muslim, therefore nuffin to do wiv Islam. And no need for me to do so, you have more than covered the apologism and justifications.

Yet you appear to refuse to accept that a Christian who murders someone and proclaims they have done so for Christ, isn't a Christian? Funny how yours and Moses and Yadda's mind works. It seems one rule for Muslims but another, different rule for Christians. Muslims who commit atrocities, even if they are against the teachings of Islam, is automatically a devout Muslim but a Christian who commits atrocities which are against Christianities' most sacred tenants, oh, no, they can't be Christians, now can they? Extremists, of all religions are well, extreme in their views and their actions, justifying their crimes through their religion. That doesn't make their religion or their co-religionists guilty of their crimes. What it means is that better instruction is required, better understanding of what the religion believes and teaches. The overwhelming majority of Christians or Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists don't support the killing of innocent people in the main. To suggest otherwise shows the depth of your bigotry and in this case, Islamophobia. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #23 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 5:20pm

Secret Wars wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 1:46pm:

Quote:

I refuse to criticise Islam because I admit that I am ignorant about it's subtle nuances and idioms - as the overwhelming majority of non-Muslims and many Muslims are.

I am not a doctor of divinity, I am happy to accept at face value a Muslim holding a dripping head declaring that he has gone choppy choppy and done it for Jihad and Allan. Especially because that person usually has an internally coherent justification in the scriptures they believe.

I might have missed a few subtle nuances and idioms I admit but then I am looking not for excuses why the head hacking jihadist is not weeeely a Muslim, therefore nuffin to do wiv Islam. And no need for me to do so, you have more than covered the apologism and justifications.

Not at all, Secret. Killing innocent people and holding up their heads on Facebook is the height of bad manners in Islam. It's more haram than eating pork.

Raping? Haram. Kidnapping? Haram. Torturing? You know.

This is in the Quran verses G has quoted. G has even quoted the not-all-who-go-in-my-name passage, the same thing Jesus said.

Muslims who ban, hate and kill are disagreeing the words of their Cunning Prophet. Christians who ban, hate and kill are disagreeing with their Holy Saviour. Not all who go in their names shall enter the Kingdom.

Personally, I believe them both. Rather than ban, hate and kill, welcome, love and bring life to others. That's the message of both. That's why I'm an apologist, you see.

I am a Moslem and a Christian. I spit, make the sign of the cross and squat down to pee and play with my dick afterwards.

You?

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moses

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #24 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 6:14pm

Quote:

Yet you appear to refuse to accept that a Christian who murders someone and proclaims they have done so for Christ, isn't a Christian?

If you disobey the teachings of Christ, by making up your own rules and regulations, Christ has rejected you Matthew 7:21-23.

muslims who rape torture and kill non-believers and apostate corrupt muslims, are obeying the teachings of muhammad.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #25 - Feb 1^st, 2019 at 7:15pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 3:30pm:

his one sounds like convert or die, does this contradict your peaceful verses?

Quote:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
https://quran.com/9/5

In isolation, of course it does. Until you realise the context. Which polytheists is it referring to?...

Quote:

[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.

and...

Quote:

Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you

'Kill the polytheists wherever you find them' - provided they are a) those with whom you made a treaty with and b) have been unfaithful to (violated) the treaty they made with you

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 3:30pm:

Does Allah say you cannot pick and choose which verses you believe in, is it a package deal if you want all those houris and an everlasting erection to service them?

Good point Baron. Perhaps in light of this you should be asking yourself why you (and most others here) believe that the jihadis and the terrorists are the most faithful to Islamic doctrine - despite their *BLATANT* disobeying of verses like 2:256 and 18:29.

At least I actually try to tackle head on the alleged "kill the infidel" verses and mount a case for why I don't think it is incompatible with my version of Islam.

Whereas the jihadis and FD and moses alike just pretend that 2:256 and 18:29 etc don't exist, and run away from them whenever they are raised.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #26 - Feb 2^nd, 2019 at 9:20am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 2:39pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 12:13pm:

The Jihadis are trying to kill people, not convert them Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

You've lost me FD. Jihadis kill people by ignoring or rationalising the verses I just mentioned. What exactly is it about that point that you take issue with?

They kill them by chopping their heads off Gandalf.

Can you explain your logic? Are you saying that ignoring the bits of the Quran you don't like is a reasonable expectation of Muslims because you believe the jihadis must be doing it?

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« Last Edit: Feb 4^th, 2019 at 1:32pm by polite_gandalf »

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #27 - Feb 2^nd, 2019 at 8:57pm

moses wrote on Feb 1^st, 2019 at 6:14pm:

Quote:

Yet you appear to refuse to accept that a Christian who murders someone and proclaims they have done so for Christ, isn't a Christian?

If you disobey the teachings of Christ, by making up your own rules and regulations, Christ has rejected you Matthew 7:21-23.

muslims who rape torture and kill non-believers and apostate corrupt muslims, are obeying the teachings of muhammad.

So are you saying if you disobey the words of Christ and shriek ban them kill them cesterete them, Christ has rejected you?

That's a bit harsh, Moses. After all, if thou knocketh, the door will be answered unto Ye.

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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran Reply #28 - Feb 3^rd, 2019 at 3:04pm Well the answer you're looking for is marked out fairly clearly in. Matthew 15:9 Mark 7:7 Matthew 7:21 - 23
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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslims who advise ignoring the Quran
Reply #29 - Feb 3^rd, 2019 at 3:39pm

Quote:

Yet you appear to refuse to accept that a Christian who murders someone and proclaims they have done so for Christ, isn't a Christian?

If you disobey the teachings of Christ, by making up your own rules and regulations, Christianty will not rejected you. Churches will accept you, even make you into a saint, Moses.

Christians who rape torture and kill non-believers and apostate corrupt Christians are obeying the teachings of Christianity. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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