Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 ... 12
Send Topic Print
Islam is unreformable. Never ever. (Read 13027 times)
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 39935
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #15 - Jan 26th, 2019 at 7:11pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 3:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 2:37pm:
Quote:
Actually, it doesn't come down to the religion, it comes down the state.


The distinction is meaningless in Islam.


Many Muslims don't think it's meaningless.

Well, Muslims think that the Koran is the final and unalterable message of god to humanity.  So what Muslims think should be dismissed as stupid, irrational and delusional.  Nobody can believe such crap with a straight face but Muslims. A race apart.




Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Auggie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #16 - Jan 26th, 2019 at 11:22pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 7:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 3:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 2:37pm:
Quote:
Actually, it doesn't come down to the religion, it comes down the state.


The distinction is meaningless in Islam.


Many Muslims don't think it's meaningless.

Well, Muslims think that the Koran is the final and unalterable message of god to humanity.  So what Muslims think should be dismissed as stupid, irrational and delusional.  Nobody can believe such crap with a straight face but Muslims. A race apart.






But, as with all religious people, they engage in double-think - the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs.
Back to top
 

The Progressive President
 
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91862
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #17 - Jan 27th, 2019 at 12:24am
 
Frank wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 7:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 3:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 2:37pm:
Quote:
Actually, it doesn't come down to the religion, it comes down the state.


The distinction is meaningless in Islam.


Many Muslims don't think it's meaningless.

Well, Muslims think that the Koran is the final and unalterable message of god to humanity.  So what Muslims think should be dismissed as stupid, irrational and delusional.  Nobody can believe such crap with a straight face but Muslims. A race apart.


Excuse me, dear boy, Islam is not a race, remember.

Shurely shome mishtake.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
issuevoter
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9200
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #18 - Jan 27th, 2019 at 7:29am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 27th, 2019 at 12:24am:
Frank wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 7:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 3:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 2:37pm:
Quote:
Actually, it doesn't come down to the religion, it comes down the state.


The distinction is meaningless in Islam.


Many Muslims don't think it's meaningless.

Well, Muslims think that the Koran is the final and unalterable message of god to humanity.  So what Muslims think should be dismissed as stupid, irrational and delusional.  Nobody can believe such crap with a straight face but Muslims. A race apart.


Excuse me, dear boy, Islam is not a race, remember.

Shurely shome mishtake.


You would be correct, if it was not for the fact that in English usage, "a race apart," is an expression of general application, not one of anthropology.
Back to top
 

No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91862
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #19 - Jan 27th, 2019 at 12:01pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Jan 27th, 2019 at 7:29am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 27th, 2019 at 12:24am:
Frank wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 7:11pm:
Auggie wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 3:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 2:37pm:
Quote:
Actually, it doesn't come down to the religion, it comes down the state.


The distinction is meaningless in Islam.


Many Muslims don't think it's meaningless.

Well, Muslims think that the Koran is the final and unalterable message of god to humanity.  So what Muslims think should be dismissed as stupid, irrational and delusional.  Nobody can believe such crap with a straight face but Muslims. A race apart.


Excuse me, dear boy, Islam is not a race, remember.

Shurely shome mishtake.


You would be correct, if it was not for the fact that in English usage, "a race apart," is an expression of general application, not one of anthropology.


Oh?

Is that what you meant, old boy?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #20 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 9:43am
 
Frank wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 11:21am:
Auggie wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 11:12am:
Any religion or idea is capable of reform. Change will only come. Unfortunately such change usually does not come about by peaceful means.



The Koran is the masterpiece of guidance and knowledge bestowed upon humanity by the Almighty. It cannot be modified in any way whatsoever. It is the final book. The commandments of the Almighty are entrenched in the Koran which provides for a complete way of life.

Asia Bibi, for example, was acquitted by the Supreme Court of Pakistan NOT because they threw out the sharia rules on blasphemy as outdated or irrelevant in a modern society but simply because the prosecution did not prove that the blasphemy occurred. In other words, there is not one iota of moving away from sharia law and its demands in relation to punishing blasphemy by death. Sharia rules are completely unchanged in 11400 years because the Koran's guidance is unmodifiable. For Muslims, its forever Groundhog Day of 8 June 632 AD.


The Bible sanctifies the butchering of women and children as noble acts of faith. Oh yes it does. For centuries such butchering was sanctioned by the church as noble acts of faith. And yet, you would be the first to argue that Christianity has got over that and 'reformed'.

There is nothing in Islamic doctrine that should act as an impenetrable 'never ever' road block to muslims behaving both civily and keeping in faith with their religion. Even if you insist there are specific doctrinal passages that make slaughtering innocents a compulsory act of faith (ridiculous, but I'll humour you), there's no reason why it can't be bypassed, ignored or rationalised into something more compatible with civil society. The truth is most muslims do it anyway, and on the other side of the coin, the jihadis bypass ignore or rationalise specific commands to not be intolerant butchering thugs. If Christians can get past specific doctrinal commands to punish and/or revile homosexuals and look upon women as subservient, inferior beings who must not be heard in public - into a religion that officially embraces gay rights and women's equality - then I don't think its a stretch for muslims to get over some pretty vague and ambiguous doctrinal references that allegedly condone slaughtering innocents on the basis of personal beliefs as an act of faith. For one thing, they can instead emphasise the decidedly *NON* vague and *NON ambiguous commands to accept and embrace freedom of thought in 2:256 and 18:29.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91862
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #21 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 10:47am
 
Good heavens, whoever said Christians should get past specific doctrinal commands to punish and/or revile homosexuals and look upon women as subservient, inferior beings who must not be heard in public?

Certainly not the old boy.

Dirty little inverts, innit.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
issuevoter
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9200
The Great State of Mind
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #22 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 1:45pm
 
The recent Islamic atrocities in the Philippines, after a referendum passed in Mohammedan favour, seems to indicate Islam is not reformable. Afghan women have voiced their fears that a peace deal with the Taliban, means a return to slavelike conditions. (NYT)
Back to top
 

No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39382
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #23 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 1:52pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Jan 30th, 2019 at 1:45pm:
The recent Islamic atrocities in the Philippines, after a referendum passed in Mohammedan favour, seems to indicate Islam is not reformable. Afghan women have voiced their fears that a peace deal with the Taliban, means a return to slavelike conditions. (NYT)


Nothing in Islam suggests either event would be inevitable, Issue.  What you're mistaking for Islam is rather the underlying tribal mores of basically tribal societies.  Islam, like Christianity has overlaid such beliefs and views and often reinforced them for their own ends.   Roll Eyes


Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2019 at 12:54pm by Brian Ross »  

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
moses
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6353
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #24 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 1:57pm
 
I say old chap how about we just throw the homosexuals off a tall building, problem solved (the muzzies will like this one)?

As for them sassy women being all uppity, why not just beat them into submission (cause qur'an says that's O.K.)?

Now if gandi was fair dinkum he'd have told us that the Bible is in two parts, *OLD* and *NEW* and  not to put too finer a point on it, but, the *NEW* bit actually said about 2019 years ago that all that bad women killing stuff was defunct.

So them people who done all the bad things in the last 2019 years are actually disobeying what's in the *NEW* (but that just slipped gandis' mind, I'd say).

So It's no big deal for them Christians to move forward with the times, so too speak (cause they just following the *NEW*.

Now I don't want to put a dampener on things but them muzzies going forward with the times, well that's a whole different ball game.

You see the theme of the qur'an is:

1/. the qur'an is perfect and can't be changed.

2/. not only is it perfect but it's totally against islamic doctrine to actually question anything bad in the qur'an.

3/. that there qur'an is opposed to them evil kufirs, why allah and his believers hate their guts if you get my drift.

4/. the qur'an is muslim supremacy ideology.

5/. the muzzies actually believe that when Jesus returns to earth He will convert to islam and kill all those uppity Christians who will never ever convert to islam.

6/. well not only does allah and his believers hate the kufir, it actually says that the muzzie who dies killing the kufir is the highest grade of muslim an he definitely will get into that big brothel in the sky with all them big titted aliens an little boys.

7/.That there qur'an says that allah could kill the kufirs if he wanted to, but wait for it, he just wants the muzzies to kill them as some sort of a test.

8/. allah says it's perfectly O.K. to rape women.

9/. allah says that the true blue muzzies should kill all them ones who are apostates and corrupters.

10/. allah makes it clear that true muzzies have to stay away from anyone who doesn't believe in allah, now wait for the good bit, they have to give their own family the shove if they are also unbelievers.

Now people may well say why is gandi making all these silly statements about ignoring the bad bits etc. etc., well you see gandi knows full well that if people start thinking for themselves and start questioning the innumerable *BAD* bits of the qur'an, they will quickly come too the conclusion that islam is nothing at all about peace and harmony on earth, it's all about muslim supremacy, and it's just a war manual to shore up the muslims and get them to spread islam across the land.

When they become thus *enlightened* the said muzzies will leave islam in droves.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39382
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #25 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 6:17pm
 
1 Timothy 2:12 - "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."

Romans 1:27 -  "In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error."

Ephesians 5:22 - “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.”

1 Peter 2:18 - “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.”

All from the New Testament, all used to justify the subjugation of peoples, of women and to kill Homosexuals.   The Bible is just as guilty as the Q'ran.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Online


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47058
At my desk.
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #26 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 7:45pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 30th, 2019 at 9:43am:
Frank wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 11:21am:
Auggie wrote on Jan 26th, 2019 at 11:12am:
Any religion or idea is capable of reform. Change will only come. Unfortunately such change usually does not come about by peaceful means.



The Koran is the masterpiece of guidance and knowledge bestowed upon humanity by the Almighty. It cannot be modified in any way whatsoever. It is the final book. The commandments of the Almighty are entrenched in the Koran which provides for a complete way of life.

Asia Bibi, for example, was acquitted by the Supreme Court of Pakistan NOT because they threw out the sharia rules on blasphemy as outdated or irrelevant in a modern society but simply because the prosecution did not prove that the blasphemy occurred. In other words, there is not one iota of moving away from sharia law and its demands in relation to punishing blasphemy by death. Sharia rules are completely unchanged in 11400 years because the Koran's guidance is unmodifiable. For Muslims, its forever Groundhog Day of 8 June 632 AD.


The Bible sanctifies the butchering of women and children as noble acts of faith. Oh yes it does. For centuries such butchering was sanctioned by the church as noble acts of faith. And yet, you would be the first to argue that Christianity has got over that and 'reformed'.

There is nothing in Islamic doctrine that should act as an impenetrable 'never ever' road block to muslims behaving both civily and keeping in faith with their religion. Even if you insist there are specific doctrinal passages that make slaughtering innocents a compulsory act of faith (ridiculous, but I'll humour you), there's no reason why it can't be bypassed, ignored or rationalised into something more compatible with civil society. The truth is most muslims do it anyway, and on the other side of the coin, the jihadis bypass ignore or rationalise specific commands to not be intolerant butchering thugs. If Christians can get past specific doctrinal commands to punish and/or revile homosexuals and look upon women as subservient, inferior beings who must not be heard in public - into a religion that officially embraces gay rights and women's equality - then I don't think its a stretch for muslims to get over some pretty vague and ambiguous doctrinal references that allegedly condone slaughtering innocents on the basis of personal beliefs as an act of faith. For one thing, they can instead emphasise the decidedly *NON* vague and *NON ambiguous commands to accept and embrace freedom of thought in 2:256 and 18:29.


What's to stop Muslims paying attention to it again?

Would it be fair to describe you as a hypocrite for suggesting Muslims ignore those parts of the Quran they feel uncomfortable with? Or are you only suggesting that non-Muslims ignore them?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91862
Gender: male
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #27 - Jan 30th, 2019 at 10:34pm
 
FD, would it be fair to describe you as a hypocrite for ignoring the parts of Freeeedom you disagree with?

You know, like having a mind of your own?

Don't answer this. It's a question.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39382
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #28 - Jan 31st, 2019 at 12:55pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 30th, 2019 at 10:34pm:
FD, would it be fair to describe you as a hypocrite for ignoring the parts of Freeeedom you disagree with?

You know, like having a mind of your own?

Don't answer this. It's a question.


Mmm, it's actually two questions, old chap.  Of course, FD, doesn't answer questions, he just asks them.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
moses
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6353
Re: Islam is unreformable. Never ever.
Reply #29 - Jan 31st, 2019 at 4:37pm
 
Women according to Christ:
John 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
John 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
John 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
John 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

It seems Christ taught compassion and forgiveness.



Now according to  muhammad:
qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death claims them.”

qur'an 4.34: Men are the maintainers of women because allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely allah is high, great.

qur’an 24:33 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

muhammad preached wife beating, confining women to houses until they died, rape was perfectly O.K. as allah was forgiving.

islam is still coming a very bad second to Christianity in the treatment of women stakes.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 ... 12
Send Topic Print