Australian Politics Forum - blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad

freediver

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blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:38pm

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 10:59am:

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2019 at 9:56pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 16^th, 2019 at 9:38pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 16^th, 2019 at 9:24pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 16^th, 2019 at 9:13pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 16^th, 2019 at 8:48pm:

Where's the doctor of divinity when you need him? Charlie Hebdo Day has little to do with what is being discussed here.

Charlie Hebdo Day is the day when European liberal democracy and freedom of speech (including the right to lampoon anyone and anything) was denied by Islam in the most violent terms.

Like 911 in New York, Muzlims said you will not have these freedoms.

If you attempt to exercise your rights, or your sense of humour, we will kill you in your homelands.

This is the meaning of Charlie Hebdo Day.

It was denied by some Muslims - extremists - not moderates. I agree with you that was reprehensible and uncalled for. Do not however, blame all Muslims nor the religion of Islam for this act.

Tell me, do you blame all of Germany for the Holocaust or all of Japan for the Rape of Nanking? I'm curious to see if your logic extends to people other than Muslims... Roll Eyes

Do you blame Nazis for the holocaust?

In WWII, yes, I do, Freediver. How many Nazis are alive today in Germany, out of a matter of interest? How many militarists in Japan are there alive today? You appear to like the idea of blaming all Muslims for the acts of a minority. Do you blame Germans for the Holocaust or Japanese for Nanking, Freediver? Roll Eyes

What's the difference between blaming Muslims and blaming Nazis?

Because only a tiny minority of Muslims commit Terrorism, FD. You've been arguing this now for over 15 years IIRC. Are you really so slow that you cannot learn even the basic facts of reality?

Quote:

Is it that the Muslims won and the Nazis lost, so we have to be snivelling sycophants for Islam?

No, because the majority of Muslims are just as much victims - even more so than Westerners - of the Terrorists. You really are a silly sausage if you believe being killed by Terrorists constitutes "victory" for Muslims. Roll Eyes

Only a tiny minority of Nazis commit terrorism Brian. So can you point out where the difference is?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:33pm:

Good grief Brian, next you'll be telling me that the vast majority of Nazis weren't rejecting the violent and intolerant interpretation of Nazism, because virtually all Nazis agreed with it.

Which of course would be absurd - I mean how could we reconcile that with FD constantly pointing out to us that arguing that not all muslims are extremists is no more valid than arguing that not all Nazis are extremist?

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:34pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:26pm:

Only a tiny minority of Nazis commit terrorism Brian. So can you point out where the difference is?

See Brian??!! Grin

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freediver

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #1 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:40pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 12:33pm:

Good grief Brian, next you'll be telling me that the vast majority of Nazis weren't rejecting the violent and intolerant interpretation of Nazism, because virtually all Nazis agreed with it.

Which of course would be absurd - I mean how could we reconcile that with FD constantly pointing out to us that arguing that not all muslims are extremists is no more valid than arguing that not all Nazis are extremist?

Many years ago, I was asked if there was such a thing as a "good Nazi". I answered by asking what they meant by the word "good". Did they mean that were there any Nazis who were good at being Nazis and who (obviously) enjoyed killing/raping/sending innocent people to the death camps or did they mean were there any who were morally "good". Funnily enough, my interlocutor got upset at that question. He obviously didn't think there could be any "good Nazis". I am unsure about the second part of my answer but I am sure there were plenty of Nazis who were good at being Nazis. How else did they manage to industrially kill 10 million people? Shocked

As for what FD argues, I don't believe even he can keep track of all the points and contradictions he has made 'cause I certainly can't! I mean, he won't even answer a simple question! Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad Reply #2 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 1:39pm Would you like to take a wild stab FD, and guess which group has the greatest proportion of violent racist thugs - muslims in Islam, or nazis in Nazism? Do you think the answer to that question has some bearing on why one group is demonized more than the other?
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cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad Reply #3 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 2:29pm are there as many NAZIs today as there are MUSLIM TERRORIST.??.. lets hope no on e ever challenges the NAZI party to be the most evil in our lifetime... history will deal with who is/was the worst of the worst...... its repeating bad stuff that is the problem ....not learn ing from the past..
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greggerypeccary

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #4 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 2:42pm

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 2:29pm:

are there as many NAZIs today as there are MUSLIM TERRORIST.??..

In Australia there are many more Nazis than Muslim terrorists.

"Radicalisation camps, fight clubs, hate campaigns and covert plans to infiltrate major political parties — this is the landscape for the far right in Australia today.

"Some groups, like the Antipodean Resistance, don't shy away from the Nazi label, with swastikas, Sieg Heil salutes and posters calling for the extermination of Australia's Jews.

"Others — including the Australia First Party, the United Patriots Front, the New Guard — don't outwardly identify with Nazism but have doctrines littered with fascist ideas."

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moses

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #5 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 3:39pm

Rights of Non-Muslims in an Islamic State

The Jizya (tribute)
Jizya literally means penalty. It is a protection tax levied on non-Muslims living under Islamic regimes, confirming their legal status. Paying the Jizya is a symbol of humiliation and submission because Dhimmi are not regarded as citizens of the Islamic state although they are, in most cases, natives to the country. Such an attitude alienates the Dhimmi from being an essential part of the community. How can a Dhimmi feel at home in his own land, among his own people, and with his own government, when he knows that the Jizya, which he pays, is a symbol of humiliation and submission?
According to Muslim jurists, the following legal ordinances must be enforced on Dhimmi(Christians and Jews alike) who reside among Muslims:
1) Dhimmi are not allowed to build new churches, temples, or synagogues. They are allowed to renovate old churches or houses of worship provided they do not allow to add any new construction. "Old churches" are those which existed prior to Islamic conquests and are included in a peace accord by Muslims. Construction of any church, temple, or synagogue in the Arab Peninsula (Saudi Arabia) is prohibited. It is the land of the Prophet and only Islam should prevail there. Yet, Muslims, if they wish, are permitted to demolish all non-Muslim houses of worship in any land they conquer.

2) Dhimmi are not allowed to pray or read their sacred books out loud at home or in churches, lest Muslims hear their prayers.

3) Dhimmi are not allowed to print their religious books or sell them in public places and markets. They are allowed to publish and sell them among their own people, in their churches and temples.

4) Dhimmi are not allowed to install the cross on their houses or churches since it is a symbol of infidelity.

5) Dhimmi are not permitted to broadcast or display their ceremonial religious rituals on radio or television or to use the media or to publish any picture of their religious ceremonies in newspaper and magazines.

6) Dhimmi are not allowed to congregate in the streets during their religious festivals; rather, each must quietly make his way to his church or temple.

7) Dhimmi are not allowed to join the army unless there is indispensable need for them in which case they are not allowed to assume leadership positions but are considered mercenaries.

Once a person becomes a Muslim, he cannot recant. If he does, he will be warned first, then he will be given three days to reconsider and repent. If he persists in his apostasy, his wife is required to divorce him, his property is confiscated, and his children are taken away from him. He is not allowed to remarry. Instead, he should be taken to court and sentenced to death. If he repents, he may return to his wife and children or remarry.

According to the Hanifites an apostate female is not allowed to get married. She must spend time in meditation in order to return to Islam. If she does not repent or recant, she will not be sentenced to death, but she is to be persecuted, beaten and jailed
until she dies. Other schools of Shari`a demand her death.

A non-Muslim wishing to become a Muslim is encouraged to do so and anyone, even a father or a mother, who attempts to stop him, may be punished. However, anyone who makes an effort to proselytize a Muslim to any other faith may face punishment.

Marriage and Children
A Muslim male can marry a Dhimmi girl, but a Dhimmi man is not allowed to marry a Muslim girl. If a woman embraces Islam and wants to get married, her non-Muslim father does not have the authority to give her away to her bridegroom. She must be given away by a Muslim guardian.

If one parent is a Muslim, children must be raised as Muslims. If the father is a Dhimmi and his wife converts to Islam, she must get a divorce; then she will have the right of custody of her child. Some fundamentalist schools indicate that a Muslim husband has the right to confine his Dhimmi wife to her home and restrain her from going to her own house of worship.

The Witness of Dhimmi
Dhimmi cannot testify against Muslims. They can only testify against other Zimmis or Musta'min. Their oaths are not considered valid in an Islamic court. According to the Shari`a, a Dhimmi is not even qualified to be under oath.

Political Rights and Duties
Some … “schools of the Shari`a which hold that non-Muslims are not allowed to assume any position which might bestow on them any authority over any Muslim. A position of sovereignty demands the implementation of Islamic ideology. It is alleged that a non-Muslim (regardless of his ability, sincerity, and loyalty to his country) cannot and would not work faithfully to achieve the ideological and political goals of Islam.

Business World
The political arena and the official public sectors are not the only area in which non-Muslims are not allowed to assume a position of authority.

Muslims and Dhimmis
Relationships between Muslims and Dhimmis are classified in two categories: what is forbidden and what is allowable.

continued next post

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moses

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #6 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 3:46pm

Continued from last post

I. The Forbidden:
A Muslim is not allowed to:
1.emulate the Dhimmis in their dress or behavior.

2.attend Dhimmi festivals or support them in any way which may give them any power over Muslims.

3. lease his house or sell his land for the construction of a church, temple, liquor store, or anything that may benefit the Dhimmi's faith.

4.work for Dhimmis in any job that might promote their faith such as constructing a church.

5.make any endowment to churches or temples.

6.carry any vessel that contains wine, work in wine production, or transport pigs.

7. address Dhimmis with any title such as: "my master" or "my lord."

II. The Allowable
A Muslim is allowed to:
1. financially assist the Dhimmis, provided the money is not used in violation of Islamic law like buying wine or pork.

2.give the right of pre-emption (priority in buying property) to his Dhimmi neighbor. The Hanbilites disapprove of this.

3.eat food prepared by the People of the Book.

4.console the Dhimmis in an illness or in the loss of a loved one. It is also permissible for a Muslims to escort a funeral to the cemetery, but he has to walk in front of the coffin, not behind it, and he must depart before the deceased is buried.

5.congratulate the Dhimmiis for a wedding, birth of a child, return from a long trip, or recovery from illness. However, Muslims are warned not to utter any word which may suggest approval of the Dhimmis' faith, such as: "May Allah exalt you," "May Allah honor you," or "May Allah give your religion victory."

Conclusion
This study shows us that non-Muslims are not regarded as citizens by any Islamic state, even if they are original natives of the and. To say otherwise is to conceal the truth. Justice and equality require that any Christian Pakistani, Melanesian, Turk, or Arab be treated as any other citizen of his own country. He deserves to enjoy the same privileges of citizenship regardless of religious affiliation. To claim that Islam is the true religion and to accuse other religions of infidelity is a social, religious and legal offense against the People of the Book.

Q/.What is the difference between Nazism and islam?

A/. Nothing.

So why are *moderates* and sick leftards trying to differentiate between the two?

At least the higher grades of muslims (the terrorists) are honest about the aims of islam.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #7 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 5:20pm

moses wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 3:46pm:

Continued from last post

[url=https://www.answering-islam.org/NonMuslims/rights.htm]
I. The Forbidden:
A Muslim is not allowed to:
1.emulate the Dhimmis in their dress or behavior.

2.attend Dhimmi festivals or support them in any way which may give them any power over Muslims.

3. lease his house or sell his land for the construction of a church, temple, liquor store, or anything that may benefit the Dhimmi's faith.

4.work for Dhimmis in any job that might promote their faith such as constructing a church.

5.make any endowment to churches or temples.

6.carry any vessel that contains wine, work in wine production, or transport pigs.

7. address Dhimmis with any title such as: "my master" or "my lord."

II. The Allowable
A Muslim is allowed to:
1. financially assist the Dhimmis, provided the money is not used in violation of Islamic law like buying wine or pork.

2.give the right of pre-emption (priority in buying property) to his Dhimmi neighbor. The Hanbilites disapprove of this.

3.eat food prepared by the People of the Book.

4.console the Dhimmis in an illness or in the loss of a loved one. It is also permissible for a Muslims to escort a funeral to the cemetery, but he has to walk in front of the coffin, not behind it, and he must depart before the deceased is buried.

5.congratulate the Dhimmiis for a wedding, birth of a child, return from a long trip, or recovery from illness. However, Muslims are warned not to utter any word which may suggest approval of the Dhimmis' faith, such as: "May Allah exalt you," "May Allah honor you," or "May Allah give your religion victory."

Conclusion
This study shows us that non-Muslims are not regarded as citizens by any Islamic state, even if they are original natives of the and. To say otherwise is to conceal the truth.

How do you come to that conclusion, Moses? I'm curious.

What's wrong with Muslims staying away from pork, booze and church production? What else would you expect?

And how does this revoke anybody else's citizenship?

Cheers.

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Yadda

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #8 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 5:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 1:39pm:

Would you like to take a wild stab FD, and guess which group has the greatest proportion of violent racist thugs - muslims in Islam, or nazis in Nazism?

Do you think the answer to that question has some bearing on why one group is demonized more than the other?

gandalf,

IMO, ISLAM is very similar [in its violent political modus] to the philosophy which we know as Nazism.

And imo, ISLAM is definitely a philosophy which promotes violent 'religious' fascism.

duckduckgo.com;
similarity between islam and nazism

gandalf,

Many moslems are proud to publicly proclaim that they are followers of ISLAM.

But almost all of those same moslems, will declare it to be violently objectionable, for any non-moslem to examine and criticise the apparent doctrines and tenets and laws, of ISLAM.

Why is that ?

Why is it violently objectionable to many moslems, that the doctrines and the tenets and the laws,
of ISLAM should be exposed to the OPEN, PUBLIC SCRUTINY, of persons who are not followers of ISLAM ?

And why does the examination, by any reasonable person, of the doctrines and tenets and laws, of ISLAM,
always expose the violent religious bigotry, at the heart of ISLAM ?

And why do moslems object to that truth about ISLAM being exposed ?

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1424590530/17#17
Quote:

The heart of ISLAM is the Koran

[and heart of the Koran, is the ideas and ideals it contains].

SO WHAT DOES THE KORAN SAY ABOUT MOSLEMS LIVING IN PEACE WITH DISBELIEVERS ? ;

---------- >

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1547622612/0#0

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1536141258/46#46

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1534830555/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92378 Gender:	Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad Reply #9 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:02pm That's true, Y. Many Moslems are followers of Islam. Do you deny it, G?
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freediver

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #10 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:28pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 1:39pm:

Would you like to take a wild stab FD, and guess which group has the greatest proportion of violent racist thugs - muslims in Islam, or nazis in Nazism?

Do you think the answer to that question has some bearing on why one group is demonized more than the other?

Do you think the proportion might have something to do with the fact that Muslims won and Nazis lost?

If the Nazis had won, do you think there would be a higher proportion of 'good' ones today?

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Frank

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #11 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:35pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:02pm:

That's true, Y. Many Moslems are followers of Islam.

Do you deny it, G?

Tell us what is new and positive in Islam, Paki. A question un-answered for about 800 years by Muslims and their spineless apologist like you because the evident and obvious answer is 'nothing'.

Can you do better than 'nothing', Paki? Go on, lippy git, tell us what's new and wonderful about Islam.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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cods

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #12 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:42pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 2:42pm:

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 2:29pm:

are there as many NAZIs today as there are MUSLIM TERRORIST.??..

In Australia there are many more Nazis than Muslim terrorists.

"Radicalisation camps, fight clubs, hate campaigns and covert plans to infiltrate major political parties — this is the landscape for the far right in Australia today.

"Some groups, like the Antipodean Resistance, don't shy away from the Nazi label, with swastikas, Sieg Heil salutes and posters calling for the extermination of Australia's Jews.

"Others — including the Australia First Party, the United Patriots Front, the New Guard — don't outwardly identify with Nazism but have doctrines littered with fascist ideas."

you dont say how many though.....some of these far right groups only have about 10 or 12 members.......

the police know who they are its not like they are shrinking violets is it...

where as our muslims groups are more shady......

can you honestly say we know who and where they all are????????????....

btw how many far righties in our jails..????

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47472 At my desk.	Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad Reply #13 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:48pm Greg just makes it up. He doesn't even bother to make sense.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: blaming Nazis good, blaming Muslims bad
Reply #14 - Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:49pm

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 7:42pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 2:42pm:

cods wrote on Jan 17^th, 2019 at 2:29pm:

are there as many NAZIs today as there are MUSLIM TERRORIST.??..

In Australia there are many more Nazis than Muslim terrorists.

"Radicalisation camps, fight clubs, hate campaigns and covert plans to infiltrate major political parties — this is the landscape for the far right in Australia today.

"Some groups, like the Antipodean Resistance, don't shy away from the Nazi label, with swastikas, Sieg Heil salutes and posters calling for the extermination of Australia's Jews.

"Others — including the Australia First Party, the United Patriots Front, the New Guard — don't outwardly identify with Nazism but have doctrines littered with fascist ideas."

you dont say how many though.....some of these far right groups only have about 10 or 12 members.......

Link?

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