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The real threat of biblical law (Read 2993 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #105 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 1:31pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:40am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 7:36pm:
cods wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 7:27pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 7:15pm:
moses wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
Bobby wrote:Reply #50 -
Bobby wrote Reply #51 - Yesterday at 6:50pm
Quote:
It doesn't seem to make much sense does it?
What was the point of Jesus turning up if nothing changed as a result?


It all makes sense to Christians Bobby, they just read it as it says.


And ignore it, hey, Moses?   How else do you explain the millions who have been killed by Christians claiming to be acting in the name of Christ?  Tsk, tsk, tripped up once again by Christians doing what they bloody well like and killing anybody they don't like...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


mainly killing people before they kill them    maybe 

or dont you believe thats possible....

your blind hatred of CHristians..makes you sound completely insane sometimes..


Oh, it is possible, Cods.  However, I can't seem to find all that many Christians who were actually in danger of being killed by non-Christians when the Christians invaded the New World, Asia, Africa and Oceania and stole the land, resources and of course destroyed the cultures and lives of the inhabitants...    ::)


Which of course was never done by Romans, Greeks, Ottomans, Persians,Mongols, Tartars, Angles, Jutes, Saxons etc either.... was it? Roll Eyes


Where have I denied that, Gnads?  However, they were (well nearly all) of much lesser extent than the Christians who invaded and stole the land and resources from the local inhabitants in the New World (North, Central and Southern Americas), Asia, Africa and Oceania (New Zealand, Australia, the Pacific Islands).   I have read estimates of over 300 million killed by the Spanish alone in central and south America by the Conquistadores and their descendents.  I am unsure how many died in North America, Asia, Africa and Oceania...   Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #106 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:55pm
 
Imperial Japan, China, ottoman Empire, Persian Empire, Muslim conquests - you never belly ache about those, Bwian.

Europeans, especially the British, took civilisation to many primitive parts of the globe and those people should count themselves lucky it wasn't  the Japanese or Muslims or the Belgians. There is no way that the Americas or Australia, Africa, Asia could remain as they were before Comumbus  Cook etc.



Your guilt- mongering is stupid and also lopsided.
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Bobby.
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #107 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 3:01pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 12:52pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 11:40am:
Gnads wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:43am:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:18pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:15pm:
Aussie wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 1:42pm:
My Arabia includes the Lands of Lawrence.  You can have yours and I'll have mine.


Aussie are you basing your whole "let's slaughter millions of Jews because Arabia is for the Arabs" thing on the movie Lawrence of Arabia?



Hi FD,
did you know that Lawrence of Arabia -
representing England -
promised the holy lands of Palestine to the Arabs?


He didn't have that authority anyway.



Then why did he make that promise?


Carried away with his own self importance perhaps?

What authority do think a Colonel has?



Does it matter?
The Arabs took him seriously on his word.
You need to study history.

forgiven

namaste
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moses
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #108 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:47pm
 
Bobby wrote Reply #90 - Yesterday at 7:29pm

Quote:
1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)  Clearly the Old Testament is to be obeyed until the end of human existence itself.  None other then Jesus said so.
&
2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever.  “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17 NAB)
&
3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets.  He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.  “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17 NAB)


These are all talking about the same things The king James version (credited with being the most accurate translation of the early Greek writings) says:

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

The law was until John it has a time frame


Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

The Law didn't fail it remained in force until it was fulfilled by the death of Christ on the cross.


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Christ didn't come to destroy the law He came to fulfill it (bring it to a successful conclusion).


Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The law run its' course and was fulfilled by the death of Christ


Quote:
3b) “All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness…” (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)


The Scriptures also foretold of the coming of a Messiah who would bear the burden of all mankinds' sins.

Quote:
3c) “Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.” (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)


I see no interpretation just Christians taking the teachings at their word (Christ came to fulfill the law)

Quote:
4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law.  Mark.7:9-13  “Whoever curses father or mother shall die” (Mark 7:10 NAB)
&
5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating.  He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)


Both of these are talking about the same event:

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mark 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Full well means first rate, quiet well, very well.

Christ was not criticizing the Jews for not upholding the law, He agreed with them that they were doing the right thing by rejecting that particular law.


Quote:
6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole.  The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell.  (Matthew 5:27)


Why the massive distortion Bobby?

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Christ was saying that to look upon a woman with lust you have already committed adultery in your heart.


continued next post

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moses
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #109 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:49pm
 
continuing on

The next couple of verses are a parable

5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Christ saying to keep all your thoughts and deeds righteous, you can't be part right and part wrong, would you destroy your whole body for one bad part?


Quote:
7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18


1Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Nothing about cruel etc.

Froward means not willing to yield or comply with what is required; unyielding; ungovernable; refractory; disobedient; peevish;

Peter is talking about masters who did  not comply with the accepted rules and regulations for the way they should treat their servants.

Quote:
8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,…” (John 1:17).


John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

A statement of fact. The law was given to moses, grace and truth came by Christ


John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

No one is keeping the law as they all want to kill Him


So I'm still convinced that Christians have got it right, the law came to an end 2018 years ago as it was fulfilled by Christ. Mankind is now justified by faith not the deeds of the law.


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Brian Ross
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #110 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:47pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:55pm:
Imperial Japan, China, ottoman Empire, Persian Empire, Muslim conquests - you never belly ache about those, Bwian.


Nearly all were in ancient/medieval times, Soren.   European/Christian Imperialism is much more recent.  Tsk, tsk, tripped up again by history...

Quote:
Europeans, especially the British, took civilisation to many primitive parts of the globe and those people should count themselves lucky it wasn't  the Japanese or Muslims or the Belgians. There is no way that the Americas or Australia, Africa, Asia could remain as they were before Comumbus  Cook etc.


"Comumbus"?  Tsk, tsk, got to turn off that autospell feature on your phone, Soren.

The Christians destroyed entire civilisations, Soren.  Is that something we should be proud of?  Did they ask the local inhabitants if they wanted to be conquered and enslaved?  Really?   Roll Eyes

Millions, billions died as a consequence.   You really are a fool, you realise?   I wonder what they taught at the University of Baloney.  I really do.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
Your guilt- mongering is stupid and also lopsided.


...
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Bobby.
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #111 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:56pm
 
Moses,
Quote:
Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

The Law didn't fail it remained in force until it was fulfilled by the death of Christ on the cross.



dear Moses,
nice try but aren't you trying to re-write the Bible?
You keep interpreting everything with your own slant on it.
If taken literally it has meaning without any translation.
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moses
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #112 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 7:22pm
 
@ Bobby

The writings of the N.T. takes the various forms of parables, parallels, symbols, prophecies, etc.

It's  not hard to read each chapter as it was meant to be read if you want to.

If you're a committed anti - Christ brigade member then it will be read that way by the reader.

The whole theme of the Bible can be summarized fairly easily.

The ancient Hebrew writings which told of their covenant with their God, the foretelling of the coming of a Messiah who would bear the burden of the sins of mankind, then the Messiah comes goes through all trials and tribulations however his message remains rock solid, he came to fulfil the law and usher in a new era of grace and justification by faith.

That's pretty much it, so why do you think Christians are going to change and say no the crucifixion has no meaning, mankind must remain the dark barbaric past?

It will never happen.

As for those who try and put the Christians down with untruths etc. they were all foretold also, so the works of the people trying to bring Christians down just strengthens the followers faith.
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #113 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 8:52pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 10:06am:
freediver wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 9:15pm:
Aussie wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 1:42pm:
My Arabia includes the Lands of Lawrence.  You can have yours and I'll have mine.


Aussie are you basing your whole "let's slaughter millions of Jews because Arabia is for the Arabs" thing on the movie Lawrence of Arabia?


Who are you quoting there, Effendi?


I am quoting you Aussie. Have you forgotten posting that already? It was only yesterday.
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Re: The real threat of biblical law
Reply #114 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:12pm
 
Excuse me, Aussie, you're going to have to clarify such a statement, I'm afraid. It's terrible. Why on earth did you say we should slaughter millions of Jews?

Whoops. I've said it now too. That's one cunning tactic FD has there.
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