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Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder (Read 16460 times)
Gnads
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #90 - Jan 5th, 2019 at 8:48am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 4:46pm:
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They came to power, not through theological means, but through barbaric and violent treatment of people on the lands that it occupies. 


Just like Muhammad did.

Can you explain how ISIL managed to recruit so many foreign jihadis, if not through "theological means"? Did they scare them all into flying halfway round the world to fight for the new Caliphate?


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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #91 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 9:33am
 
Re Gnads

Really? As far as I know, the origin of was Mohammad a pedophile comes from a criticism of him from a Dutch far right party person.   I am sure, if there are others, he would have quoted it as evidence. 

Gnads,  you need to read up on whats happening around the world and the region during those times.  There was no UN, there was no recognized country borders.  The strong lives, and weak dies.  That was our history.  And thats the same history every where you go. 

However, you must realize that 1.8 billion followers today ultimately follows the old god, the same god that was Christian and Jewish.  To them, Mohammad was the last messenger.   They revered him, because, prior to that, the people were scattered, in small groups, fighting amoungst each other, and at the same time being invaded by others.  By the end of his reign, the whole of Arabia is virtually under Islam. 

I can draw a parallel of him with the first Emperor of China.  You can say, that he too was a tyrant, he killed countless, and he was a child killer - using the children to make medicine that can allow him to live forever.  However, people in China still revered him, many criticized him, he was known as a tyrant.  But he was remembered for uniting the waring states, buidling the great wall (or start of), and standardize the language and mathematics.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #92 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 9:53am
 
Quote:
Really? As far as I know, the origin of was Mohammad a pedophile comes from a criticism of him from a Dutch far right party person.   I am sure, if there are others, he would have quoted it as evidence.
 

It comes from Muhammad having sex with little children.

Quote:
Gnads,  you need to read up on whats happening around the world and the region during those times.  There was no UN, there was no recognized country borders.


You have no clue.

Quote:
I can draw a parallel of him with the first Emperor of China.  You can say, that he too was a tyrant, he killed countless, and he was a child killer - using the children to make medicine that can allow him to live forever.  However, people in China still revered him, many criticized him, he was known as a tyrant.  But he was remembered for uniting the waring states, buidling the great wall (or start of), and standardize the language and mathematics.


No-one worships him today. People still have sex with children and slaughter innocent people because of Muhammad.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #93 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 10:03am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2019 at 4:46pm:
Quote:
They came to power, not through theological means, but through barbaric and violent treatment of people on the lands that it occupies. 


Just like Muhammad did.

Can you explain how ISIL managed to recruit so many foreign jihadis, if not through "theological means"? Did they scare them all into flying halfway round the world to fight for the new Caliphate?


But free diver, I dont think the foreign fighters joining the Islamic state out of fear. 

First of all, no matter how big Islamic state had been, it would never ever pose a threat to the existence of even Australia much less USA.  Yes, there can be smaller scale suicide attacks, all the way upto a 911.  However, the basis of western countries, its wealth, its tax base, its industry remain completely unharmed.   And the Islamic state know that once the west interferes against them, they will not stand a chance.   Hell, they couldnt even properly gain control of their own areas.   Had the USA not destroyed Iraq, or weakened Syria, then they were never able to exist as they were. 

So, what they want is asymmetrical warfare.  They promote their ideology as there is going to be a grand / end of days holy war between muslim and non muslim, and that they are on the right side through many forms of media.   They support their cause, by stating evidence of how people were killed via Western powers.  And they confound the evidence by not stating their own atrocity, stating that Western main stream media are not to be trusted (similar to what Trump is doing incidentally). 

This message then became very attractive to younger people.  You would find that most foreign fighters joining ISIL are often young men.  Now, if they are from poorer countries like Indonesia, its probably because they promise a '5 star' jihadi - as they provide pay, food, accomodation, a wife, and school for the kids.   In richer countries like Australia, well you find that often, those people have background issues with personality, criminality and mental health issue.   They are often socially inadequate.  And they wanted a sense of purpose in life in a society (right or wrong) that have rejected them. 

I think, we've seen this before just very recently, the rise of Nazism in Germany post world war 1.  It was a time where the economy is doing very poorly, and the entire country were suffering, being looked down upon as losers by other allied countries.  So people needed a quick answer, and Nazism filled the void.  And even though Hitler did unspeakable things, people followed him not because of the Nazism ideology (e.g. the master race quasi religion / mystic belief), but rather seeing him as a answer to their everyday woes, and the rest is history.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #94 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 10:14am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 6th, 2019 at 9:53am:
Quote:
Really? As far as I know, the origin of was Mohammad a pedophile comes from a criticism of him from a Dutch far right party person.   I am sure, if there are others, he would have quoted it as evidence.
 

It comes from Muhammad having sex with little children.

Quote:
Gnads,  you need to read up on whats happening around the world and the region during those times.  There was no UN, there was no recognized country borders.


You have no clue.

Quote:
I can draw a parallel of him with the first Emperor of China.  You can say, that he too was a tyrant, he killed countless, and he was a child killer - using the children to make medicine that can allow him to live forever.  However, people in China still revered him, many criticized him, he was known as a tyrant.  But he was remembered for uniting the waring states, buidling the great wall (or start of), and standardize the language and mathematics.


No-one worships him today. People still have sex with children and slaughter innocent people because of Muhammad.


Any way.... as a summary, I have already given the historic view that the historic facts were in itself not completely reliable.  Please read the posts about hadith, the differences between sunni and shia when it comes to hadith, and take into account the time when the supposed 'eye witness' accounts were written.   Also, look at the historic context of whats happening regarding child brides through history of the world.   Its hard to argue with someone, who just after a few posts completely forget everything, and goes to square one. 

My basic principal is this...  People do horrible things, rape killing - with many different reasons.  But at the end of the day, it is not because of religion, law, or culture that driven them to do it.  Rather, its men's own inner imperfection.   I can guarantee even without Islam, or Christianity, there will still be sexual embarrassments against women and there will still be mass murder.    You are stating that I am making excuses.  But in doing so, in fact, you are making excuses for people who are doing the wrong things today.  We need see through the veils of their lies, expose them for what they are - imperfect humans who does things for their own personal gain.   And doing so, this would give us a better knowledge of why they are so attractive to their followers, so that we can start countering their tactics in the very basic levels of society. 

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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #95 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 10:23am
 
Quote:
Please read the posts about hadith, the differences between sunni and shia when it comes to hadith


Do any of them disagree that Muhammad slaughtered Jews and had sex with children?

Quote:
and take into account the time when the supposed 'eye witness' accounts were written


If Muslims believe it, what is there to "take into account"?

Quote:
Also, look at the historic context of whats happening regarding child brides through history of the world.   Its hard to argue with someone, who just after a few posts completely forget everything, and goes to square one.
 

You haven't gotten to square one yet. Do you agree that while Christian Europe was abolishing slavery, Muslims were building an empire on rape, pillage and sex slavery? Or do you need to pick and choose the context?

Quote:
My basic principal is this...  People do horrible things, rape killing - in many different reasons.


Why do Muslims travel half way round the world to rape the infidel and die in the quest to impose the new Caliphate and destroy Iraqi democracy? Islam? Or do you have context for us to snivel over?

Quote:
But at the end of the day, it is not because of religion, law, or culture that driven them to do it.  Rather, its men's own inner imperfection.


There are plenty of imperfect people. But there's a big difference between imperfect and institutionalised rape and murder.

Quote:
I can guarantee even without Islam, or Christianity, there will still be sexual embarrassments against women and there will still be mass murder.    You are stating that I am making excuses.


You are making excuses in defense of Islam, for no apparent reason. Why do you describe the systematic capture and rape of Yazidi and other minorities as "sexual embarassment"? And what makes you think this would still be happening without Islam?
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #96 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 10:36am
 
re Gnads

Quote:

You're wrong there ... in Christianity Jesus is the son of God ... not God. Born of Mary by immaculate conception from God.

So in effect he was Gods prophet on earth .... just like Mohammad self claimed to be.


As you see from my posts, I am probably a very bad religious person.  But, still go to church since its something that I do since I was very young. 

Is Jesus the son of God - yes, except for Jewish, both Islam and Christians believe so.  But whats differ is the principal of holy trinity.

One God and One Only
Exists in three Persons
Equal and Eternal
Worthy of equal praise and worship
Distinct yet acting in unity
Constituting the one true God of the Bible

Now, this is where it gets interesting.  Main stream churches, catholics, and most Protestants believe holy trinity, except for a few:
1. Mormons - the mormons believe that the trinity are three different being.
2. Jehova's witness - believes one god, Jesus is son of god, but not the god.  And the holy spirit is an active force. 

And of course, Islam does not believe in holy trinity.  They believe Jesus is a great messenger of god, and his teachings are fundamental to the muslim faith.   However, they believe that the principal view of holy trinity itself undermines the oneness of god.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #97 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 11:00am
 
Freediver, may be try to talk to a muslim, and you will find that they disagree with you that he was a pedophile.  With various texts, views and historic contexts we just being through.   

But however, I like to clarify, that you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.  I am just providing the forum with some historic context and opposing views.  So no hard feelings please. 

In terms of slavery, its not unique to either the Christians or the Muslims.  In fact, in places like China, where there is little to no influence of Islam, slavery was not abolished until the 1900.  And of course, the mid 1800s in USA just a bit after bans in Europe from early 1800s.   But the actual history of slavery predates even Christianity.  I mean the whole biblical story of Moses, is about slavery in Egypt, and Islam have absolutely nothing to do with that.   So I think its a bit rich to link slavery to a religion really.

In terms of institutionalized rape and murder.  Well, thats what happens when you have a group of imperfect people with power in their hands.  And its not unique to just Islam. 

In terms of systematic capture and rape of Yazidis women are perfect examples of the system of fear and intimidation employed by the Islamic State.  Ultimately, they want to subdue the population, basically snuff out any resistance.   It is the exact tatics employed by other invading forces throughout history of mankind.  A good case study would be the Japanese and the Germans in WW2.  Both of which are not religion related, but nevertheless, still happened. 
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #98 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 1:03pm
 
Rose can you explain how ISIL managed to recruit so many foreign jihadis, if not through "theological means"? Did they scare them all into flying halfway round the world to fight for the new Caliphate and destroy Iraq's new democracy? Why do you keep dodging this question? Would you like to retract your claim that it has nothing to do with Islam? Or keep sprouting it and running away when challenged?

Why do you say we must not blame Islam for what Muslims do in the name of Islam?

Also, why do you think there is a meaningful comparison between Muhammad and some long-dead Chinese warlord? Do any Chinese worship this warlord and rape and pillage in his name?

Quote:
Freediver, may be try to talk to a muslim, and you will find that they disagree with you that he was a pedophile.


They attempt to redefine pedophile, but they do that with slavery, rape, murder, genocide and all the other nasty things Muhammad did, without disputing any of the facts. It is mainstream Islamic belief that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl when he was over 50 years old. Trying to put a positive spin on sex with children does not mean Muhammad did not have sex with children.

Quote:
But however, I like to clarify, that you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.  I am just providing the forum with some historic context and opposing views.  So no hard feelings please.
 

You duck and weave at every turn.

Quote:
In terms of slavery, its not unique to either the Christians or the Muslims.


This is not context. This is destroying the context in defense of Islam. Do you agree that while Christian Europe was abolishing slavery, Muslims were building an empire on rape, pillage and sex slavery?

Quote:
But the actual history of slavery predates even Christianity.  I mean the whole biblical story of Moses, is about slavery in Egypt, and Islam have absolutely nothing to do with that.   So I think its a bit rich to link slavery to a religion really.


Only a complete idiot would interpret what I said that way.

Quote:
In terms of institutionalized rape and murder.  Well, thats what happens when you have a group of imperfect people with power in their hands.  And its not unique to just Islam.
 

It's what happens when a religion is built on rape and murder.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #99 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 1:21pm
 
Quote:
They attempt to redefine pedophile, but they do that with slavery, rape, murder, genocide and all the other nasty things Muhammad did, without disputing any of the facts. It is mainstream Islamic belief that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl when he was over 50 years old. Trying to put a positive spin on sex with children does not mean Muhammad did not have sex with children.


That is one of the horses you love riding to death Effendi, and you keep ignoring the fact that God, it is said by Christians, in an act of adultery, impregnated the virgin child Bride of Joseph and at that time who knows how old God was.  Can you explain why Christians follow the word of such an adulterous paedophile?
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #100 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 2:18pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 6th, 2019 at 9:33am:
Re Gnads

Really? As far as I know, the origin of was Mohammad a pedophile comes from a criticism of him from a Dutch far right party person.   I am sure, if there are others, he would have quoted it as evidence. 

Gnads,  you need to read up on whats happening around the world and the region during those times.  There was no UN, there was no recognized country borders.  The strong lives, and weak dies.  That was our history.  And thats the same history every where you go. 

However, you must realize that 1.8 billion followers today ultimately follows the old god, the same god that was Christian and Jewish.  To them, Mohammad was the last messenger.   They revered him, because, prior to that, the people were scattered, in small groups, fighting amoungst each other, and at the same time being invaded by others.  By the end of his reign, the whole of Arabia is virtually under Islam. 

I can draw a parallel of him with the first Emperor of China.  You can say, that he too was a tyrant, he killed countless, and he was a child killer - using the children to make medicine that can allow him to live forever.  However, people in China still revered him, many criticized him, he was known as a tyrant.  But he was remembered for uniting the waring states, buidling the great wall (or start of), and standardize the language and mathematics. 


Rubbish it was well known long before Geert Wilders was known or a Political aspirant.

Honestly do you think there has only been criticism of radical Islamists since the invention of "far left" or far right" politics.

If you want to go on about history ... then realise that the fight against the spread of Islamic oppression has been going on ever since its inception in 700 ad.

And 1400 yrs later they are still following an all encompassing patriarchal,fascist ideology with same primitive attitudes.

Whilst the rest of the world & religion has evolved to more civilized standards of societal acceptance.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #101 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 2:22pm
 
Every history of Mo states that he married an under-age girl and consummated the marriage pre-puberty.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #102 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 2:31pm
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 6th, 2019 at 1:21pm:
Quote:
They attempt to redefine pedophile, but they do that with slavery, rape, murder, genocide and all the other nasty things Muhammad did, without disputing any of the facts. It is mainstream Islamic belief that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl when he was over 50 years old. Trying to put a positive spin on sex with children does not mean Muhammad did not have sex with children.


That is one of the horses you love riding to death Effendi, and you keep ignoring the fact that God, it is said by Christians, in an act of adultery, impregnated the virgin child Bride of Joseph and at that time who knows how old God was.  Can you explain why Christians follow the word of such an adulterous paedophile?


Repetitious bs Aussie ... as an omnipotent God
that no one can see .... and in the light of so called biblical miracles & curses that have supposedly occurred why do you persist with the notion that God had a physical relationship to impregnate Mary immaculately?

If you had suggested physical relationships by Jesus or Muhammad you may have a point.

But as a comparison i.e God to Muhammads actions

you don't have a point ... score zero.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #103 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 2:37pm
 
Gnads wrote on Jan 6th, 2019 at 2:31pm:
Aussie wrote on Jan 6th, 2019 at 1:21pm:
Quote:
They attempt to redefine pedophile, but they do that with slavery, rape, murder, genocide and all the other nasty things Muhammad did, without disputing any of the facts. It is mainstream Islamic belief that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl when he was over 50 years old. Trying to put a positive spin on sex with children does not mean Muhammad did not have sex with children.


That is one of the horses you love riding to death Effendi, and you keep ignoring the fact that God, it is said by Christians, in an act of adultery, impregnated the virgin child Bride of Joseph and at that time who knows how old God was.  Can you explain why Christians follow the word of such an adulterous paedophile?


Repetitious bs Aussie ... as an omnipotent God
that no one can see .... and in the light of so called biblical miracles & curses that have supposedly occurred why do you persist with the notion that God had a physical relationship to impregnate Mary immaculately?

If you had suggested physical relationships by Jesus or Muhammad you may have a point.

But as a comparison i.e God to Muhammads actions

you don't have a point ... score zero.


Repetitious?  Gawd, do you not read Effendi.  He never stops regaling us with the tale of an alleged paedo Mo, yet he ignores that Christian history is rife with it.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #104 - Jan 6th, 2019 at 2:44pm
 
To this day Muslims campaign against minimum age of consent laws because their religion prevents them from even suggesting Muhammad might have done something wrong by having sex with children.

But Aussie would rather see those children continue to get raped than acknowledge the role Islam plays- hence his moronic BS about god having sex.
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