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Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder (Read 16450 times)
tickleandrose
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #135 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am
 
Gnads wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:13am:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 1:01pm:
Gnads wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 12:35pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 7th, 2019 at 11:48am:
Re Frank

Quote:
Give me one concept that is not man made.

Of course its all man made, or man conceived. But that doesnt make it 'all the same'.


Good question!  When you realized that, then you are able to look at the world with more rational and objective perspective.  Atrocities do happen, and due to many man made reasons.  However, now, instead of easier way out: e.g. looking for differences in skin color, and religion on the surface, we can go into depth, and get to the root of the problem. 

With this rational perspective, we can go after the real perpetrators who committed a crime, instead of accusing other innocent people who had nothing to do with those atrocities. 

For example, those men in Afghanistan who rapes young children.  If you have godly power, and absolutely destroy the ideology of Islam, the same men will still carry on as usual raping young children. They could have easily said well I can do that, what are you going to do about it.    But if you put in effective law, and enforcement, with increase education for the masses, then such thing will not happen. 


Good grief what don't you get about a religion & it's Holy men who teach that women are unclean & they have to be covered up head to toe is going to cause the men to go looking elsewhere?

Besides the little boys ... the goats, donkeys, camels etc. cop a lot of man love.


Gnad, let me make this very very clear to you.  All of this.. religion stuff, they are man made.  They made it in a time, where science and technology are not advanced, however, human mind need some sort of 'explanation' for the things we cant explain.  Sharia law was man made.  But the main purpose of which, is to control the population by the ruling class. 

And besides, the concept that woman are not clean, predates Islam.  The concept of sinfulness of mankind and that of woman had its roots in Christianity, in the form of Original sin.

Now, why basically every region in the world seek to control women?  When you look through the veils of tradition, it boils down to survival.  In the past, if a tribe, or country wants to survive, it need to have a strong military and economy.  There can be no military not economy without a healthy fighting and working population.  Controlling the women is about controlling the fertility.   And religion is one of ways that our ruling class have devised to rule us and to divide us. 

For example, back in the medieval times, marrying outside religions (Christians and pagans, Christians and Muslims), or even within religion (protestants and catholics) were seen as highly forbidden, even as bad as marrying outside your class / caste.   They are tools to control to subjugate us for their gains. 

You need to transcend your thought process.  We are lucky that we live in Australia, under secular governance.  It is an opportunity that not everyone in the world has.  See through the illusions that other have created around you, go and make a friend with a muslim. See him not as a Muslim, an Arabic, or an Asian, see him as a human being.  And then all of sudden two person would be happy instead of none.  Smiley 


Oh durrrrh ..... and despite global advancement in education, science & technology these people still cling to dark ages religious dogma.

They fight wars with modern weapons, they kill their own & other with same .... except when punishing their women ... they revert back to stones for them.

Everything is "man made" ......

stop making excuses for barbarism & devotion to a 1400 yr old doctrine that promotes murder & paedophilia and is carried out by supposedly 21st century human beings.




Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #136 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #137 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:59pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!


No Frank, the perpetrators who did the crime.  You know the ones who are directly responsible.  Wink
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #138 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 4:27pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!


No Frank, the perpetrators who did the crime.  You know the ones who are directly responsible.  Wink


If it's not against their laws, is it a crime?
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #139 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 5:06pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 4:27pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!


No Frank, the perpetrators who did the crime.  You know the ones who are directly responsible.  Wink


If it's not against their laws, is it a crime?


They live here - they live by our rules.. if not, we introduce them to Allah for a personal chat...
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #140 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:05pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!


No Frank, the perpetrators who did the crime.  You know the ones who are directly responsible.  Wink

They don't  bow to your man made  laws. Allah's  law or nuffin'.

They are totalitarians in a quinessentially NON-Western way. Their totalitarianism pre-dates all Western concepts of totalitarianism by a millennium. That's  Mohammed's only contribution to world history. He was Hitler 1400 years before Hitler. And his adherent worship his every word.

The Koran is Mohammed's  Mein Kampf (Koran is German for Recitation of My Struggles).


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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #141 - Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:54pm
 
tickleandrose  wrote: Reply #131 - Today at 9:06am

Quote:
Moses, when you list the things you think that are pagan in Islam to dispute that its a Abrahamic, I easily listed two of the traditions that are Christian, and yet, pagan.   If you go into history a bit more, you would find that most religions in the world are have certain things that other have.  It is because, the people interact with each other, learn off each other. 

But at the end of the day, my original point still stands, what use is to dispute it was a 'moon god' or not.  It was all tools written by men to divide and rule the population from a historic point of view.


I fail to see how Christians celebrating easter which is the aniversary of the crucifixion of Christ is based on a pagan festival.

They base Easter on the traditions of the Judaic Passover hardly pagan.

Christmas I think coincides with some pagan festival, however they are not celebrating anything pagan, they celebrate the birth of Christ on this day.

I dispute anyone trying to lump islam and Judaism together as Abrahamic.

That simply is not true and easily disproved by historical archeological and religious evidence. (islam is merely a fake reinvented moon god cult trying to plagiarize the Judaeo/Christian religious beliefs.

==================================================================

tickleandrose  wrote Reply #132 - Today at 9:12am

Quote:
Mose that is a very simplistic view of the world.  Our fundamental difference is that, you believe people do evil things because of some text telling them to, and the action of someone who lived more than thousand years ago.   I think differently.  Because, people had been doing terrible things to each other long before our written history.    The reason why people do it, its precisely because they know they can get away with it. 

Even if today, Mose, that you have godly powers, and all of sudden you remove the entire Islam religion from the face of the Earth.  If those areas are to remain lawless, then you can be sure that terrible things will continue to happen again and again and again.


You're slowly getting to the truth of it t&r you say evil men do things, very true.

So why can't evil men preach their depravities as religious doctrine?

Men preach their iner selves as the attributes of the god they're proclaiming.

This is exactly what happened with islam, muhammad changed the attributes of his god allah into a god which approved all the degeneracies he practiced.

The islamic problem today is one simple thing, they have no foundation on which to build a modern 21st century civilization. muslims are stuck with their 7th century mentality.

Why do you think they are still amputating peoples' limbs for trivial crime, stoning people to death for homosexuality adultery blasphemy & apostasy?

They do it because islam tells them to do it, not because they are so depraved they simply want to kill people for the sake of it.

muslims are the worlds religious terrorists, they commit islamic terrorism because islam causes and motivates it.

Stop making excuses for islam t&r, let's call a spade a spade and stop all the world wide muslim terrorism, world wide millions of muslim refugees, tens of thousands of little children being deliberately starved to death by muslim wars, thousands of little children dying in the refugee flight caused by muslims, all because they have a culture / religion which is toxic and evil held down by the 7th century depravity of muhammad which he turned into prescribed consecrated deeds .
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #142 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 9:49am
 
Re Frank and Cu Chullain

Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:05pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!


No Frank, the perpetrators who did the crime.  You know the ones who are directly responsible.  Wink

They don't  bow to your man made  laws. Allah's  law or nuffin'.

They are totalitarians in a quinessentially NON-Western way. Their totalitarianism pre-dates all Western concepts of totalitarianism by a millennium. That's  Mohammed's only contribution to world history. He was Hitler 1400 years before Hitler. And his adherent worship his every word.

The Koran is Mohammed's  Mein Kampf (Koran is German for Recitation of My Struggles).


Do you not see.  Not Allah's laws.  But human MADE laws.  Laws for which they pick and choose to their liking.  Cu Cullian is right, they dont care, because no one is there to hold them accountable for now.  And the sad thing is that, perhaps, no one can held them responsible this lifetime. 

This is what happens when war, conflict, and conservatism holds back the tides of change.  Here, in the Western world, those changes did not come without sacrifice and at alot of times sheer luck. 

You can barking on about oh.... erh... the Koran is equivalent of my struggle, and utter your distaste.  But, what is going to happen is that, by generalizing, you are only going to make the positions of hardliners more entrenched, and the moderates more prosecuted.  And thereby increasing suffering ten folds, a hundred folds for the people who actually live there, while you remaining safe behind your ivory tower.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #143 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 10:06am
 
Re Moses:

Easter is a good example of how traditions mixed with a relative new but dominant religion at the same time.  Prior to the Christianity, those Easter days began as a pagan festival celebrating spring in the Northern Hemisphere.  The spring equinox is a day where the amount of daylight and the amount dark is similar.  People celebrate them in those times, because, back then, humans are roughly divided into two types of society: the normads, and the agriculture society. 

The Easter period became associated with resurrection of Christ following the coming of Christianity.   But there are still disputes as to the exact day and time when Jesus was Cruxified and resurrected.  It made sense then, because spring are associated with change, and renewal, which symbolizes the passing of darkness by Jesus sacrifice and the renewal of human faith in god.

In German, the pre Christian - celebration period is called Ostern, after the goddess Ostara.  And the act of decorating eggs follows a German tradition linked to the fertility goddess Eostre.   And of course later, there is addition of commercial things, like greeting cards, confectioneries and toys.  Whether or not that reflect the true meaning of Christianity its of course up for debate as well. 

So, in its Essence, even with the act of celebrating Easter, one of the most important days in Christianity, have many of its roots in Pagan traditions.  Everything is mixed, people mix. 

But at the end of the day, what does it matter?  Pagan or Christians, Muslims or Christians.  We are all humans.  We live in each other's space, and we exchange informations, and communicate.  Do we really have to point at each other's belief, and state oh this is pagan, mine is more genuine?  What does it serve?  Division.  All of sudden, two people who can be friends, suddenly cannot.  Is this what god intended for us?  To divide, and squable between us in his name? 
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #144 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 10:25am
 
re Moses

Quote:
You're slowly getting to the truth of it t&r you say evil men do things, very true.

So why can't evil men preach their depravities as religious doctrine?

Men preach their iner selves as the attributes of the god they're proclaiming.

This is exactly what happened with islam, muhammad changed the attributes of his god allah into a god which approved all the degeneracies he practiced.

The islamic problem today is one simple thing, they have no foundation on which to build a modern 21st century civilization. muslims are stuck with their 7th century mentality.

Why do you think they are still amputating peoples' limbs for trivial crime, stoning people to death for homosexuality adultery blasphemy & apostasy?

They do it because islam tells them to do it, not because they are so depraved they simply want to kill people for the sake of it.

muslims are the worlds religious terrorists, they commit islamic terrorism because islam causes and motivates it.

Stop making excuses for islam t&r, let's call a spade a spade and stop all the world wide muslim terrorism, world wide millions of muslim refugees, tens of thousands of little children being deliberately starved to death by muslim wars, thousands of little children dying in the refugee flight caused by muslims, all because they have a culture / religion which is toxic and evil held down by the 7th century depravity of muhammad which he turned into prescribed consecrated deeds .


Moses, it is admirable that you want to stop the suffering, to reduce the suffering of the world. From your words, I can feel your frustration, and sadness for those who are suffering. 

However, our differences is that, you firmly believe that it is a scripture that drives those suffering,  Where as I believe, it is the inner imperfection of mankind that drives those suffering.  What ever happened in the 6th century, that was well over 1000 years ago.  Whats happening now in the world, its a lot more complicated than just can be explained with religion. 

Moses, I encourage you to start looking at the world through a more secular view.  At the very minimum, perhaps, starting reading from WW1, especially at the end of WW1, with the breaking up of the Prussian empire in Europe, and the Ottoman Empire in the middle East.  And how, and why the formation of different middle East states.  And then go through WW2, and the cold war that followed.    Only then, you will start to understand a bit, about the formation of Al Qeada and ISIL in the modern times.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #145 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:50am
 
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 9:49am:
Re Frank and Cu Chullain

Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:05pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!


No Frank, the perpetrators who did the crime.  You know the ones who are directly responsible.  Wink

They don't  bow to your man made  laws. Allah's  law or nuffin'.

They are totalitarians in a quinessentially NON-Western way. Their totalitarianism pre-dates all Western concepts of totalitarianism by a millennium. That's  Mohammed's only contribution to world history. He was Hitler 1400 years before Hitler. And his adherent worship his every word.

The Koran is Mohammed's  Mein Kampf (Koran is German for Recitation of My Struggles).


Do you not see.  Not Allah's laws.  But human MADE laws.  Laws for which they pick and choose to their liking.  Cu Cullian is right, they dont care, because no one is there to hold them accountable for now.  And the sad thing is that, perhaps, no one can held them responsible this lifetime. 

This is what happens when war, conflict, and conservatism holds back the tides of change.  Here, in the Western world, those changes did not come without sacrifice and at alot of times sheer luck. 

You can barking on about oh.... erh... the Koran is equivalent of my struggle, and utter your distaste.  But, what is going to happen is that, by generalizing, you are only going to make the positions of hardliners more entrenched, and the moderates more prosecuted.  And thereby increasing suffering ten folds, a hundred folds for the people who actually live there, while you remaining safe behind your ivory tower. 

So by despising Islam I AM MAKING THEM MORE DESPICABLE. And this your 'more secular' learning. Pretty daft.

Murderous thugs would nice if only we didn't notice and say thet they are murderous thugs.


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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #146 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 4:42pm
 
tickleandrose wrrote Reply #143 - Today at 10:06am.
Quote:
Easter is a good example of how traditions mixed with a relative new but dominant religion at the same time.  Prior to the Christianity, those Easter days began as a pagan festival celebrating spring in the Northern Hemisphere.


You've completely sidestepped the very things which define the Christian Easter t&r.

To start with Christ was crucified during the  Hebrew passover.

Matthew 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Mark 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

Luke 22:2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.

John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Christ was crucified during the Hebrew passover.

Nothing to do with paganism the Jewish passover celebrates the time God spared the Hebrews from his wrath, they painted blood of a sacrificial lamb over their doors and God did passover them.

Quote:
But at the end of the day, what does it matter?  Pagan or Christians, Muslims or Christians.  We are all humans.  We live in each other's space, and we exchange informations, and communicate.  Do we really have to point at each other's belief, and state oh this is pagan, mine is more genuine?  What does it serve?  Division.  All of sudden, two people who can be friends, suddenly cannot.  Is this what god intended for us?  To divide, and squable between us in his name? 


Once again you've sidestepped the fact that islam teaches muslim domination of the world, islam teaches that allah and muslims hate the non-believers, islam teaches that a thief liar pedophile rapist torturer and mass murderer is the best example for mankind to follow.

Why are you avoiding the fact that the islamic terrorists, islamic rapists with their forced child marriage, islamic men who practice bacha bazi with the little boys, the muslims who behead people, the muslim crowds who work themselves into a euphoric state of pure evil when calling for the death of homosexuals apostates blasphemers adulterers etc.,  all totally believe they are obeying their qur'an?

The qur'an is the root cause of all problems muslims face today 2019.

Reply #144 - Today at 10:25am
Quote:
What ever happened in the 6th century, that was well over 1000 years ago.  Whats happening now in the world, its a lot more complicated than just can be explained with religion. 


Except the muslims certainly don't believe you t&r.

They eat live and breathe islam, they do not think for themselves, the qur'an and what happened a millennium and a half ago is what drives them today 2019.
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #147 - Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:30pm
 
We don't really care - it's the deliberate attack on the culture that supports and accepts Easter and Christmas as they are, that is the problem here.

How would the Muslim cleric like it if the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope got up and said that Ramadan was worse than murder?

Once more - Merry Christmas to the Muslim cleric..... and keep on enjoying your free ride.... being a cleric means you don't have to work and your faithful pay you and feed you well.... so you don't even need a holiday...
(dick-head)
......

Must be suffering from relevance deprivation syndrome in the West - time to go home, Jackie-Jackie, and enjoy life there...
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #148 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:05am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:30pm:
We don't really care - it's the deliberate attack on the culture that supports and accepts Easter and Christmas as they are, that is the problem here.

How would the Muslim cleric like it if the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope got up and said that Ramadan was worse than murder?

Once more - Merry Christmas to the Muslim cleric..... and keep on enjoying your free ride.... being a cleric means you don't have to work and your faithful pay you and feed you well.... so you don't even need a holiday...
(dick-head)
......

Must be suffering from relevance deprivation syndrome in the West - time to go home, Jackie-Jackie, and enjoy life there...


Smiley
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Re: Muslim cleric: ‘Merry Christmas’ worse than murder
Reply #149 - Jan 10th, 2019 at 9:13am
 
Frank wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 11:50am:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 9th, 2019 at 9:49am:
Re Frank and Cu Chullain

Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 6:05pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:59pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 2:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Jan 8th, 2019 at 9:25am:
Then my argument to those perpetrators would be: its not good enough that you try to excuse your action on a 1400 year old doctrine.  You are doing it, with your free will right now.  And its not good enough for the 21 st century.   You need to change, and dont try to hide behind tradition, because you are responsible for it. 



Oh, this will upset gandalf, karnal and bwian.
Muslims responsible? How very dare you, colonialist islamophobe?!!


No Frank, the perpetrators who did the crime.  You know the ones who are directly responsible.  Wink

They don't  bow to your man made  laws. Allah's  law or nuffin'.

They are totalitarians in a quinessentially NON-Western way. Their totalitarianism pre-dates all Western concepts of totalitarianism by a millennium. That's  Mohammed's only contribution to world history. He was Hitler 1400 years before Hitler. And his adherent worship his every word.

The Koran is Mohammed's  Mein Kampf (Koran is German for Recitation of My Struggles).


Do you not see.  Not Allah's laws.  But human MADE laws.  Laws for which they pick and choose to their liking.  Cu Cullian is right, they dont care, because no one is there to hold them accountable for now.  And the sad thing is that, perhaps, no one can held them responsible this lifetime. 

This is what happens when war, conflict, and conservatism holds back the tides of change.  Here, in the Western world, those changes did not come without sacrifice and at alot of times sheer luck. 

You can barking on about oh.... erh... the Koran is equivalent of my struggle, and utter your distaste.  But, what is going to happen is that, by generalizing, you are only going to make the positions of hardliners more entrenched, and the moderates more prosecuted.  And thereby increasing suffering ten folds, a hundred folds for the people who actually live there, while you remaining safe behind your ivory tower. 

So by despising Islam I AM MAKING THEM MORE DESPICABLE. And this your 'more secular' learning. Pretty daft.

Murderous thugs would nice if only we didn't notice and say thet they are murderous thugs.



Because Frank, when you so called dispise Islam, not only you do that to the perpetrators, who I agree absolutely deserve it, but also alienate the victims that you sought to save them from.   When under threat, people will retreat back, and hardliners takes over.  Its like this forever in human history.  And when there is enough hardliners on both sides in control, war and conflict breaks out again, causing even more suffering.
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