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Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios (Read 6729 times)
juliar
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #15 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 2:20pm
 
And the brainless Tweedledee Greeny Type robot twit rushes in to show her limitless ignorance of all things great and small.

it is all because her primitive malformed brain is malfunctioning because of overheating caused by Global Warming and exposure to high concentrations of dangerous poisonous CO2 gas.

What the ultimately dumb Tweedledee knows about power generation would fit on the back of a postage stamp. Classic empty headed full of wind and bulldust Greeny type.
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juliar
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #16 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 2:33pm
 
A rundown of the insane stupidity of the now deposed imposter SA Labor "Govt" in following the idiotic Greenies down the gurgler and wrecking their power system.

Now the equally idiotic Federal Labor imbeciles want to inflict the same traitorous Extremist Greeny insanity on ALL OF AUSTRALIA!!!!




Why SA's power prices are so high and the potential fixes so risky
Richard Blandy ADELAIDE Tuesday March 07, 2017

ANALYSIS
In this detailed explainer, former essential services commissioner Richard Blandy sets out why South Australia’s power bills are so high and warns that some of the touted solutions to the problem could lead to an economic catastrophe for the state.


...
Be careful what you wish for: some solutions to our power problems may have unintended consequences.

What’s driving your bills
According to the most recent report of the Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC), a representative consumer in South Australia paid $1487 for electricity in 2015/16 – a bill which is expected to rise to $1602 in 2016/17, and to $1717 in 2017/18, before falling to $1679 in 2018/19.

Environmental policies – mostly to mitigate emissions of CO2 – cost about $150 p.a. as part of these bills.

For comparison, a representative consumer in Victoria paid $1099 in 2015/16, expected to rise to $1107 in 2016/17, and to $1200 in 2017/18, before falling to $1185 in 2018/19 (about 70% of the cost in SA). Environmental policies cost about $75 p.a. as part of these bills (half of what they cost in SA).

What explains these trends and price differences?

The Eastern States of Australia form an interconnected electricity market but one split into regions with their own supply and demand conditions. This market is run by the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO).

For all intents and purposes, South Australia is a stand-alone region with its own (privately-owned) generation, high-voltage transmission and low-voltage distribution system, but linked by two high-voltage transmission lines (interconnectors) to Victorian generators. Electricity retailers buy electricity from the generators, pay the costs of transmitting and distributing it to their customers, and charge their customers sufficiently to cover these costs and make a profit.

There are markets in each of the four components of the electricity supply chain: generation, transmission, distribution and marketing. The price that a consumer pays for a kWh of electricity (as well as his/her supply charge) depends on the prices formed in each of these markets, which, in turn, depend on the costs and profit margins that give rise to the prices. These costs and profit margins depend on the technologies and competitive conditions characterising electricity’s generating, transmitting, distributing and retailing activities.

In a typical final consumer’s bill, about 45% flows from the cost of generation, about 45% comes from the cost of transmission and distribution, and about 10% comes from the cost of retailing.

Retailing costs are unlikely to be a source of rapidly rising electricity prices because they represent a small proportion of final prices to consumers and there is a high level of competition in this part of the electricity supply chain. Energy Watch shows that there are seven electricity retailers selling electricity to small businesses, and 12 electricity retailers selling electricity to households. Therefore, price rises at the retail level are likely to be cost-based.

By contrast, the transmission and distribution networks are natural monopolies. This means that they could charge very high prices unrelated to their costs and earn significant monopoly profits. Normally, such monopoly networks are either government owned or subject to independent regulation and oversight. The Australian Energy Regulator (AER) sets the maximum amount of revenue that ElectraNet and SA Power Networks (SAPN) can earn in order to make a profit just sufficient to provide efficient transmission and distribution services.

The AER looks at the projected demand for electricity, replacement and investment in pylons, cables and other infrastructure, operating and financial costs, and network reliability and safety objectives.

Has the AER has been asleep at the wheel? In particular, has the AER inadvertently allowed the Regulated Asset Base (RAB) to increase too much so that transmission and distribution costs are too high? Some critics of the regulatory system for transmission and distribution would abolish the “locked in past investment history” RAB-based regulatory process, in favour of a system that better took into account major potential economies, as these emerged, writing off past investments that became uneconomic, like competitive businesses do.

Read the rest of this sick account of Greeny led Labor's imbecilic following the Extremist Greenies down the gurgler here.

https://indaily.com.au/news/analysis/2017/03/07/why-sas-power-prices-are-so-high...
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Robot
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #17 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:24pm
 
Quote:
What’s driving your bills
According to the most recent report of the Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC), a representative consumer in South Australia paid $1487 for electricity in 2015/16 – a bill which is expected to rise to $1602 in 2016/17, and to $1717 in 2017/18, before falling to $1679 in 2018/19.

Environmental policies – mostly to mitigate emissions of CO2 – cost about $150 p.a. as part of these bills.

For comparison, a representative consumer in Victoria paid $1099 in 2015/16, expected to rise to $1107 in 2016/17, and to $1200 in 2017/18, before falling to $1185 in 2018/19 (about 70% of the cost in SA). Environmental policies cost about $75 p.a. as part of these bills (half of what they cost in SA).


According to Blandy's numbers, "environmental policies" are responsible for less than a third of the difference between the two states. Without any "environmental policies", SA's price would still be 150% of Victoria's price. And South Australia's prices have always been higher than Victoria's, even before SA had its wind farms..because it has always relied on gas. Perhaps the imbeciles in Federal government should fix the overwhelming cause of South Australia's energy prices: the price of natural gas. Would save the rest of the country money, as well.

Quote:
The price of RECs has doubled over the last three years. Since South Australia has more than three times the share of wind energy in its supply mix compared with the NEM as a whole, the rise in the price of RECs has impacted electricity prices in SA more than the national average.


That's absurd. The cost of RECs is spread out evenly over the NEM--that's the whole point! As Blandy himself points out:

Quote:
The arrangements for supporting commercial wind and solar energy generation are built around a system of Renewable Energy Certificates (RECs). Electricity retailers are required to source a (rising) proportion of their sales of electricity from hydro, wind and solar generators – overwhelmingly, in practice, from wind farms. To prove this, they buy RECs from eligible generators which they subsequently surrender to the Commonwealth Government, or pay a hefty penalty.

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lee
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #18 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:32pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Perhaps the imbeciles in Federal government should fix the overwhelming cause of South Australia's energy prices: the price of natural gas.



So the historic cost is due to gas prices, even before the gas peaking plants came on line.
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Robot
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #19 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:39pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:32pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
Perhaps the imbeciles in Federal government should fix the overwhelming cause of South Australia's energy prices: the price of natural gas.



So the historic cost is due to gas prices, even before the gas peaking plants came on line.


As far back as the turn of the millennium, when gas plants made up about half of SA's power supply.
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lee
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #20 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:57pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
As far back as the turn of the millennium, when gas plants made up about half of SA's power supply.



Oh only 18 years.

Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 9:24pm:
And South Australia's prices have always been higher than Victoria's, even before SA had its wind farms..because it has always relied on gas.



Rather makes the always seem a trifle overblown.
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Robot
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #21 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:09pm
 
Splitting that hair really makes a big difference.
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lee
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #22 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:12pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:09pm:
Splitting that hair really makes a big difference.



Well it puts the lie to your statement.

So how long really has SA electricity been more expensive?
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #23 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:27pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:12pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:09pm:
Splitting that hair really makes a big difference.



Well it puts the lie to your statement.

So how long really has SA electricity been more expensive?


See for yourself:
https://aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#a
verage-price-table

Average Prices - Historical
YEARSAVic
199947.6924.51
200059.2726.35
200156.3944.57
200231.6130.97
200330.1127.56
200434.8625.38
200536.0727.62
200637.7632.47
200751.6154.8
200873.546.79
200950.9841.82
201055.3136.28
201132.5827.09
201230.2827.28
201369.7557.44
201461.7151.49
201539.2930.35
201661.6746.14
2017108.6666.58
201898.192.33
201993.1788.71
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lee
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #24 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:43pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:27pm:
See for yourself:
https://aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#a

verage-price-table



and yet you haven't shown where in the pricing structure gas shows up. Wink
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Robot
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #25 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:51pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:43pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:27pm:
See for yourself:
https://aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-dashboard#a

verage-price-table


and yet you haven't shown where in the pricing structure gas shows up. Wink


"So how long really has SA electricity been more expensive?"

Don't bother moving the goalposts, because I can't be bothered taking the kick again.
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #26 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:57pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:51pm:
Don't bother moving the goalposts, because I can't be bothered taking the kick again.



That's funny seeing it was you blaming gas for ALWAYS higher prices in SA. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #27 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:58pm
 
In 2000, South Australia's electricity was over twice the price of Victoria's.

Should we blame that on gas, or should we blame it on coal?
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #28 - Dec 14th, 2018 at 11:47pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:58pm:
In 2000, South Australia's electricity was over twice the price of Victoria's.

Should we blame that on gas, or should we blame it on coal?



You are the one blaming it on gas. What was the cost of gas back then?
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #29 - Dec 15th, 2018 at 12:39am
 
lee wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 11:47pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 14th, 2018 at 10:58pm:
In 2000, South Australia's electricity was over twice the price of Victoria's.

Should we blame that on gas, or should we blame it on coal?



You are the one blaming it on gas. What was the cost of gas back then?


Tristan Edis
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/27/south-australias-absurd-electricity-prices-renewables-are-not-to-blame

Quote:
Back in 2002-03, when wind and solar were negligible and Northern coal power station was operating at about 90% of its full capacity, SA relied on gas for around half its electricity supply, while cheap imports from Victoria were about 20% of supply. This wasn’t much of a big deal at the time because gas prices were $4 per gigajoule which equates to an operating cost of SA’s largest power station – Torrens Island – of about $50 per megawatt-hour of electricity.

...

However due to the start-up of gas liquefaction plants. the gas price has now doubled to around $8 per gigajoule. This increases Torrens Island’s operating cost to about $95 per megawatt-hour, which coincidently is almost the same as the current electricity contract price.


Replacing coal with renewables actually pushed prices down:

Quote:
Given Northern Power Station had been operating at close to full capacity back in 2002-03, there’s no way it could have expanded output to prevent such gas price rises from flowing through to power prices.

It was only with the addition of wind and solar to the existing mix of coal plus the interconnector that gas could be driven down to less than a third of the electricity market. This acted to substantially shield SA from power price rises, not induce them.


Wink
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