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Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios (Read 6779 times)
minarchist
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Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Dec 7th, 2018 at 4:05pm
 
This is a paper I recently came across. It was published by a company called Electric Power Consulting that looked at six different scenarios of electrical generation mixes. Links to the paper and the webpage containing a more detailed summary of how each scenario was developed are listed below:

https://epc.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/ReliableAffordableElectricPowerGen
eration_Booklet.pdf

https://epc.com.au/index.php/nem-model/

The six scenarios they developed are as follows:

Scenario 1: Approximation of the existing NEM
Scenario 2: Replace brown coal generators with nuclear
Scenario 3: Replace all coal generators with nuclear
Scenario 4: Approximation of an AEMO scenario for 2040, containing a mixture of both carbon based and renewable generators
Scenario 5: Replace all coal generators with Combine Cycle Gas Turbines
Scenario 6: 100% renewables consisting mostly of wind and supported by hydro

The following are the total LCOE for each scenario per MWh, including generation and distribution. Note that the report doesn't model expected Spot Prices for electricity in each scenario

Scenario 1: $211.12/MWh
Scenario 2: $214.73/MWh
Scenario 3: $232.48/MWh
Scenario 4: $389.69/MWh
Scenario 5: $238.97/MWh
Scenario 6: $557.75/MWh

The follow are the tonnes of CO2 per MWh expected to be emitted in each scenario:

Scenario 1: 0.83T/MWh
Scenario 2: 0.64T/MWh
Scenario 3: 0.06T/MWh
Scenario 4: 0.33T/MWh
Scenario 5: 0.36T/MWh
Scenario 6: 0.02T/MWh
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People accuse Capitalism of being a "dog eat dog" system, yet it was the Communists who ate each other when they were starving!
 
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lee
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #1 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 5:52pm
 
Interesting -

"In  the  short  term  the  proposed  National  Energy  Guarantee  (NEG)  should  be  supported,  but  the  expansion  of  intermittent  generation  and  storage  as  projected  by  AEMO  should  be  examined  for  practicability and cost. The NEG would also benefit from including a capacity market component to provide clear signals for investment in dispatchable generation when needed. "

ibid
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juliar
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #2 - Dec 10th, 2018 at 10:08am
 
The simple decision to make is, Do you want any industry in Australia or not? 

The mad as cut snakes minority Extremist Greenies want to see ALL industry in Australia closed down.


As solar sleeps at night and wind gets tired and rests for while it will obviously have blackouts.

Storage is a sick Greeny make believe joke as the capacity is so small it is irrelevant.


Industry needs a constant reliable power supply 24/7.

Gas is already in short supply so how can it be used as a major supply to generate electricity ?

Coal is in enormous supply and generates CHEAP electricity 24/7 as it has for the last 100 years or so.


Now the next question is, do YOU believe the Global Warming HOAX or not ?

It is clearly a UN fabricated SCAM to try to transfer wealth from rich countries to poorer countries as just a part of the UN One World Govt SCAM as described in the UN Agenda 2030 bulldust rubbish that the Greenies are trying to follow.


The sick Extremist Greenies want to reduce Australia to a trashy 4th world mess such as exists in Africa now full of  multicultural ghettos where it is unsafe for whities to go - you know just like the Black African Terrorist Ghettos in parts of Melbourne supported by the imposter Vic Labor "Govt".




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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #3 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 5:02am
 
juliar wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 10:08am:
The simple decision to make is, Do you want any industry in Australia or not? 

The mad as cut snakes minority Extremist Greenies want to see ALL industry in Australia closed down.


As solar sleeps at night and wind gets tired and rests for while it will obviously have blackouts.

Storage is a sick Greeny make believe joke as the capacity is so small it is irrelevant.


Industry needs a constant reliable power supply 24/7.

Gas is already in short supply so how can it be used as a major supply to generate electricity ?

Coal is in enormous supply and generates CHEAP electricity 24/7 as it has for the last 100 years or so.


Now the next question is, do YOU believe the Global Warming HOAX or not ?

It is clearly a UN fabricated SCAM to try to transfer wealth from rich countries to poorer countries as just a part of the UN One World Govt SCAM as described in the UN Agenda 2030 bulldust rubbish that the Greenies are trying to follow.


The sick Extremist Greenies want to reduce Australia to a trashy 4th world mess such as exists in Africa now full of  multicultural ghettos where it is unsafe for whities to go - you know just like the Black African Terrorist Ghettos in parts of Melbourne supported by the imposter Vic Labor "Govt".





hah dotty old aunty jules at it again... gather round kiddies Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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juliar
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #4 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 12:07pm
 
Aha! the lunar Village Idiot Tweedledee with the malformed brain malfunctioning due to overheating by Global Warming and over exposure to dangerous poisonous carbon dioxide crawls out from under the floor boards to parade her gross ignorance of all things Great and Small.

This awful creature is clearly a bit simple and not the full quid and it is not at all surprising such a mentally unabled wretch cannot see thru the very obvious Global Warming HOAX.

Then the lying Greeny Extremists would not exist were it not for such mentally impoverished creatures.

The childish simplicity of these reject creatures means they are UNABLE to even begin to understand how electricity is generated and so these awful rejects from the human race just vomit the lying rubbish they see on the lying Greeny trash sites.

To get these yucky creatures to expose their gross ignorance then get them to explain how renewable rubbish can supply the Tomago aluminium smelter.

But then the Greeny Extremists want to CLOSE DOWN the Tomago Aluminium Smelter.

And of course the Village Idiot Tweedledee just copes my very correct post and then dribbles some nauseatingly ridiculous rubbish. Tweedledee is definitely a bit simple and not quite the full quid and unfit to post anything in a technical section.
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #5 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 12:25pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 7th, 2018 at 5:52pm:
Interesting -

"In  the  short  term  the  proposed  National  Energy  Guarantee  (NEG)  should  be  supported,  but  the  expansion  of  intermittent  generation  and  storage  as  projected  by  AEMO  should  be  examined  for  practicability and cost. The NEG would also benefit from including a capacity market component to provide clear signals for investment in dispatchable generation when needed. "

ibid


You can't trust any of it, lee; it's all based on a computer model.
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #6 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 12:49pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 12th, 2018 at 12:25pm:
You can't trust any of it, lee; it's all based on a computer model.



Can you show me where I did say I trusted it?

You know about models?

Some have utility, some don't.

Engineering models have utility. They design planes with known metrics with them, bridges too.

The difficulty is where they parametrise the unknowns - forcings in climate models and  bedrock depths.

"With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk."  John von Neumann
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juliar
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #7 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 2:03pm
 
SA has a massive problem after the grossly incompetent imposter Labor "Govt" sabotaged the SA electricity network so that it is now an unstable mess TOTALLY dependent on the link to the Victorian Coal fields.

SA now has the most unreliable unstable most expensive electricity in all Australia.

See the fundamental problem with renewable rubbish is that it is FUNDAMENTALLY UNRELIABLE as solar and wind stop at times.

Now the Greeny misled brains trust reckons all you have to do is DUPLICATE all the renewable rubbish with gas powered turbines.

So the COST is DOUBLED as the amount of generating equipment is DOUBLED.

And as gas is already in short supply then where does all this gas come from ?

SA in panic mode bought many diesel generators to prop up their crippled power system mess.

Now the industry problem appears as industry requires power 24/7 non stop without fail and presents a constant load on the generators and is an ideal load for coal generators.

So the gas turbines will be working almost constantly supplying industry with expensive in short supply gas.

Most industries in SA already have their own diesel emergency generators.

The tiny Tesla battery is just an expensive white elephant joke with about 100MW capacity whereas SA pulls about 2000MW.

Perhaps the answer for renewable rubbish is HYDROGEN storage as this is unlimited and can be produced by electrolysis supplied by the erratic unreliable renewable rubbish and the hydrogen can be used to power the gas generators or heat the coal steam boilers.

Nuclear would be an IDEAL solution for SA as it has the uranium and a stable geological landmass.
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juliar
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #8 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 2:06pm
 
SA is already moving towards a HYDROGEN economy.



Hydrogen-fuelled power plant planned at Port Lincoln
By political reporter Nick Harmsen Updated 12 Feb 2018, 2:15pm

RELATED STORY: CSIRO breakthrough could turn renewable hydrogen into export boom
RELATED STORY: Why all the fuss about hydrogen cars?
RELATED STORY: Quick bids demanded for SA's big battery venture

A plan for a small hydrogen-fuelled power plant at Port Lincoln is getting funding from South Australia's renewable technology fund.

Key points:
The project will use renewable energy and split water into hydrogen and oxygen
Hydrogen can then be stored as a gas or liquid, or converted into ammonia
The project includes two new power generation facilities — a 10MW gas turbine to burn hydrogen in air and a 5MW hydrogen fuel cell
Infrastructure company Hydrogen Utility (H2U) is proposing a $117.5 million facility with a 15-megawatt electrolyser plant to convert renewable power into hydrogen and an ammonia production facility for fertiliser production.

It said there would also be a 10-megawatt hydrogen-fuelled turbine and a 5-megawatt hydrogen fuel cell, both to supply electricity to the grid, with water their only by-product.

The company is getting a $4.7 million grant and a $7.5 million loan from the state renewables fund.

Hydrogen Utility chief executive Attilio Pigneri said the project would demonstrate the possibilities from hydrogen production.

"It will provide balancing services to the national transmission grid [and] fast frequency response support to new solar plants under development on the Eyre Peninsula," he said.

He said fertiliser and chemical production would help the farming and aquaculture sectors.

Dr Pigneri also hoped hydrogen could be exported to the Asia-Pacific region.

South Korean car makers have been investing in development of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

By the 2020 Olympics, Japan is aiming to have 40,000 hydrogen fuel cell cars and 1.4 million hydrogen fuel cells.

The South Australian Government said it was planning to capitalise on the state's high penetration of renewable energy, and to have ports capable of exporting hydrogen either as liquid or stored as ammonia.

Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis said domestic storage and consumption was also being planned.

"South Australia is at the global forefront of a broad range of storage technologies, from big batteries to virtual power plants to pumped hydro," he said.

"Now we will also be home to one of the largest hydrogen production facilities in the world as well."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-12/hydrogen-power-plant-port-lincoln/9422022
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #9 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 2:38pm
 
"Professor Anthony O’Mullane said the potential for the chemical storage of renewable energy in the form of hydrogen was being investigated around the world.

“The Australian Government is interested in developing a hydrogen export industry to export our abundant renewable energy,” said Professor O’Mullane from QUT’s Science and Engineering Faculty.

“In principle, hydrogen offers a way to store clean energy at a scale that is required to make the rollout of large-scale solar and wind farms as well as the export of green energy viable.

“However, current methods that use carbon sources to produce hydrogen emit carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that mitigates the benefits of using renewable energy from the sun and wind.

“Electrochemical water splitting driven by electricity sourced from renewable energy technology has been identified as one of the most sustainable methods of producing high-purity hydrogen.”

Professor O’Mullane said the new composite material he and PhD student Ummul Sultana had developed enabled electrochemical water splitting into hydrogen and oxygen using cheap and readily available elements as catalysts."

“Gold Doping in a Layered Co-Ni Hydroxide System via Galvanic Replacement for Overall Electrochemical” was published in Advanced Functional Materials.

https://www.qut.edu.au/news?id=138610
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #10 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 2:58pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 12th, 2018 at 12:49pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 12th, 2018 at 12:25pm:
You can't trust any of it, lee; it's all based on a computer model.



Can you show me where I did say I trusted it?

You know about models?

Some have utility, some don't.

Engineering models have utility. They design planes with known metrics with them, bridges too.

The difficulty is where they parametrise the unknowns - forcings in climate models and  bedrock depths.

"With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk."  John von Neumann


"I only distrust computer models when they don't support my beliefs."
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lee
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #11 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 3:18pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 12th, 2018 at 2:58pm:
"I only distrust computer models when they don't support my beliefs."



Oh dear. Stuck in a rut. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #12 - Dec 13th, 2018 at 4:15pm
 
Lee you know these uninformed Greeny Types cannot argue their way out of a wet paper bag.
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lee
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #13 - Dec 13th, 2018 at 4:40pm
 
That's the trouble with robots. No independent thought.
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Re: Some Australian Electrical Generation Scenarios
Reply #14 - Dec 13th, 2018 at 7:50pm
 
Lee and Jules, its like they r the same person their thinking is so alike  Wink
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