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Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA (Read 3678 times)
lee
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #15 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:44pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
xeej wrote Today at 7:04pm:
at best only benefit a few in certain situations.


Duh: that's by design.



What about the design that is for use when SA faces serious loss of power?

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Johnnie
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #16 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:48pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
Johnnie wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:04pm:
the batteries are unproven


True; the battery's been supplying FCAS for a year but that isn't for keepsies.

Johnnie wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:04pm:
at best only benefit a few in certain situations.


Duh: that's by design.

Nah, they wouldn't have a clue how long they will last under the baking sun, nor would Elon.
What will be the replacement costs, where will they dump the old batteries, Maralinga!
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Robot
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #17 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:05pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:44pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:39pm:
xeej wrote Today at 7:04pm:
at best only benefit a few in certain situations.


Duh: that's by design.



What about the design that is for use when SA faces serious loss of power?



SA hasn't got a battery for that. It's just a little battery that provides cheap FCAS and keeps SA's lights on for a bit when normal supply trips.
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Robot
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #18 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:09pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 9:48pm:
Nah, they wouldn't have a clue how long they will last under the baking sun, nor would Elon.
What will be the replacement costs, where will they dump the old batteries, Maralinga!


If they haven't been cooked by California's weather then Souf Australia poses no challenge.
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lee
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #19 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
SA hasn't got a battery for that. It's just a little battery that provides cheap FCAS and keeps SA's lights on for a bit when normal supply trips.



"The Government will also have the right to tap the battery's full output to prevent load shedding blackouts if supply runs low this summer."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-23/worlds-most-powerful-lithium-ion-battery-...
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Robot
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #20 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:27pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
SA hasn't got a battery for that. It's just a little battery that provides cheap FCAS and keeps SA's lights on for a bit when normal supply trips.



"The Government will also have the right to tap the battery's full output to prevent load shedding blackouts if supply runs low this summer."

<URL snipped>


And? But?
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lee
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #21 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:37pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:27pm:
And? But?


So if the battery is to be tapped to prevent load shedding it must be dual purpose.

If it is dual purpose it will apparently run 30,000 homes for  about 1 hour. Or because SA has about 767,500 households for about 3 minutes, providing shops and industry are isolated from the grid.

The diesel backup generators will have to be run up to temperature and speed before being switched over to the grid. They will also have to be phased into the grid. If they are fed in out of phase the generators will try to run as motors and cause widespread blackout and blown up generators.
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Robot
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #22 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:03pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:37pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:27pm:
And? But?


So if the battery is to be tapped to prevent load shedding it must be dual purpose.

If it is dual purpose it will apparently run 30,000 homes for  about 1 hour. Or because SA has about 767,500 households for about 3 minutes, providing shops and industry are isolated from the grid.


It's not meant to power the entire state by itself. It just adds a bit of extra juice and frequency control when, for example, the Heywood interconnector trips, and buys time for local generators to come online. It's already saved the state from a couple of blackouts.

lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:37pm:
The diesel backup generators will have to be run up to temperature and speed before being switched over to the grid. They will also have to be phased into the grid. If they are fed in out of phase the generators will try to run as motors and cause widespread blackout and blown up generators.


I trust the operator knows that they shouldn't blow up their generators.

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« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:12pm by Robot »  
 
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lee
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #23 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:07pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:03pm:
It's not meant to power the entire state by itself. It just adds a bit of extra juice and frequency control when the Heywood interconnector trips, and buys time for local generators to come online. It's already saved the state from a couple of blackouts.


Keep believing that. I'm merely quoting tha ABC; they could have got it wrong. Wink

Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:03pm:
I trust the operator knows that they shouldn't blow up their generators.


Yep. Time consuming too. Each one individually matched to the load.
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Johnnie
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #24 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:14pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:03pm:
It's not meant to power the entire state by itself. It just adds a bit of extra juice and frequency control when the Heywood interconnector trips, and buys time for local generators to come online[highlight]. It's already saved the state from a couple of blackouts.[/quote[/highlight]]

Keep believing that. I'm merely quoting tha ABC; they could have got it wrong. Wink

[quote author=Robot link=1543952145/22#22 date=1544533421]I trust the operator knows that they shouldn't blow up their generators.


Yep. Time consuming too. Each one individually matched to the load.

Which batteries saved the state from blackouts and when.
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Captain Nemo
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #25 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:23pm
 
Renewables-rich South Australia became a net electricity exporter for first time;

• 12 new wind and solar farms totalling 1050MW of capacity were added to the grid, including 500MW of large-scale solar, trebling the amount of large-scale solar in the system;

• The continued rapid uptake of rooftop solar by homes and businesses kept a lid on grid demand, even if overall consumption showed a rise, and;

• Electricity generation emissions in the national market fell again, but only slightly.



The most surprising of those developments may be the South Australia achievement, which shows that since the closure of the Hazelwood brown coal generator in Victoria in March 2017, South Australia has become a net exporter of electricity, in net annualised terms.

Hugh Saddler, lead author of the study, notes that this is a big change for South Australia, which in 1999 and 2000, when it had only gas and local coal, used to import 30% of its electricity demand.

The fact that wholesale prices in South Australia were higher in other states – then, as they are now – has nothing to with wind and solar, but the fact that it has no low-cost conventional source and a peaky demand profile (then and now).

“The difference today is that the state is now taking advantage of its abundant resources of wind and solar radiation, and the new technologies which have made them the lowest cost sources of new generation, to supply much of its electricity requirements,” Saddler writes.


Cool


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/05/south-australia-rides-ren...
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Robot
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #26 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:23pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:03pm:
It's not meant to power the entire state by itself. It just adds a bit of extra juice and frequency control when the Heywood interconnector trips, and buys time for local generators to come online. It's already saved the state from a couple of blackouts.


Keep believing that. I'm merely quoting tha ABC; they could have got it wrong. Wink


Feel free to reference the ABC article that says "Or because SA has about 767,500 households for about 3 minutes, providing shops and industry are isolated from the grid."

You know, the one you're "merely quoting".

lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:03pm:
I trust the operator knows that they shouldn't blow up their generators.


Yep. Time consuming too. Each one individually matched to the load.


It's a tricky job. That's why engineers get the big money. Not sure why this matters.
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Johnnie
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #27 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:25pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:23pm:
Renewables-rich South Australia became a net electricity exporter for first time;

• 12 new wind and solar farms totalling 1050MW of capacity were added to the grid, including 500MW of large-scale solar, trebling the amount of large-scale solar in the system;

• The continued rapid uptake of rooftop solar by homes and businesses kept a lid on grid demand, even if overall consumption showed a rise, and;

• Electricity generation emissions in the national market fell again, but only slightly.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/56c7ad2e9921492f64f516778db061944e0f94a8/0_0_590_...

The most surprising of those developments may be the South Australia achievement, which shows that since the closure of the Hazelwood brown coal generator in Victoria in March 2017, South Australia has become a net exporter of electricity, in net annualised terms.

Hugh Saddler, lead author of the study, notes that this is a big change for South Australia, which in 1999 and 2000, when it had only gas and local coal, used to import 30% of its electricity demand.

The fact that wholesale prices in South Australia were higher in other states – then, as they are now – has nothing to with wind and solar, but the fact that it has no low-cost conventional source and a peaky demand profile (then and now).

“The difference today is that the state is now taking advantage of its abundant resources of wind and solar radiation, and the new technologies which have made them the lowest cost sources of new generation, to supply much of its electricity requirements,” Saddler writes.


Cool


https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/05/south-australia-rides-ren...

Yep, SA is putting out.
As in output.
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« Last Edit: Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:33pm by Johnnie »  
 
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lee
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #28 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:38pm
 
Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:23pm:
Feel free to reference the ABC article that says "Or because SA has about 767,500 households for about 3 minutes, providing shops and industry are isolated from the grid."

You know, the one you're "merely quoting".


You seem confused. That article I quoted said -

lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm:
"The Government will also have the right to tap the battery's full output to prevent load shedding blackouts if supply runs low this summer."



Now the fact that SA has over 767,000 households comes from this-

"The Census usual resident population of South Australia in 2016 was 1,676,653, living in 767,267 dwellings with an average household size of 2.39."

https://profile.id.com.au/australia/population?WebID=130

Robot wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:23pm:
It's a tricky job. That's why engineers get the big money. Not sure why this matters.



And it is still time consuming. Wink
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Re: Tesla Batteries starting to do good in SA
Reply #29 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:41pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:14pm:
Which batteries saved the state from blackouts and when.


Well, SA only has one battery. It's the one we've been talking about.

Oops, it was just the one time: 25 August 2018 when the Heywood interconnector failed. The frequency surge should have caused blackouts in SA but the battery provided instant frequency control.
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