Australian Politics Forum - All Muslims support genocide

freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #210 - May 10^th, 2019 at 6:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 6:44pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 2:49pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 12:28pm:

Quote:

Not necessarily, because in this case you are talking about a rational cognitive process to arrive at that belief

Are you suggesting my explanation in the OP is not a rational cognitive process?

Absolutely FD. You insist that 20% of the world's population unquestioningly support genocide - and worse, your insistence is not even based on any Islamic view on genocide, nor on any knowledge on your part on how muslims actually view genocide. Merely on the false logic that because you (but no one else) think Muhammad committed genocide, and because muslims must consider Muhammad as the best of men, ipso facto, muslims must support genocide. Where does one even begin at dismantling such flaw in logic? If nothing else, you are ignoring the muslims who don't accept that the massacre even happened, in which case it is clearly not every single muslim on earth, man woman and child as you insist.

As I keep saying, you singularly deny muslims any agency to think for themselves (and then laughably contradict yourself by acknowledging muslims who are morally flexible). You laughably insist 1.5 billion men women and children from all cultures, from all corners of the globe are in lock-step on this one belief - which also just happens to be the most inflamatory smear you could possibly think of (whats worse than supporting genocide?), and which is obviously particularly sensitive in the context of our own western cultural history. That is applying group think in the most blatant and bigoted way - with the express aim of defaming and smearing an entire religious group of people.

We've been over this. Plenty of other people also think Muhammad committed genocide.

Plenty of muslims don't. Some even don't believe it happened at all.

But you singularly deny every one of them any agency to think for themselves, and arrogantly apply a blanket "FD-think" on all of us. *YOU* insist its genocide, therefore muslims must accept it as such, and therefore just like that, you get 20% of the world's population all in perfect lock step, of one mind (dare I say a 'mindless collective'??) in supporting genocide. No questions, no ifs or buts. Apparently without even any of the 'moral flexibility' or hypocricy you just finished explaining is a feature of muslims.

There are two words starting with 'r' that describe this - one is 'ridiculous'.

You tried the denial angle also. But you still maintained that you support the genocide even if it didn't happen.

I am not denying anyone the agency to think for themselves. In fact I credit Muslims with great creativity in coming up with ways to support genocide.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #211 - May 11^th, 2019 at 12:55am

moses wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 3:22pm:

qur'an 8.67: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made a great slaughter in the land
. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Seems allah / muhammad was partial to a bit of blood flowing around.

Strangely enough, that passage says the exact opposite. You?

Don't answer that.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #212 - May 11^th, 2019 at 12:57am

polite_gandalf wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 6:44pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 2:49pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 12:28pm:

Quote:

Not necessarily, because in this case you are talking about a rational cognitive process to arrive at that belief

Are you suggesting my explanation in the OP is not a rational cognitive process?

Absolutely FD. You insist that 20% of the world's population unquestioningly support genocide - and worse, your insistence is not even based on any Islamic view on genocide, nor on any knowledge on your part on how muslims actually view genocide. Merely on the false logic that because you (but no one else) think Muhammad committed genocide, and because muslims must consider Muhammad as the best of men, ipso facto, muslims must support genocide. Where does one even begin at dismantling such flaw in logic? If nothing else, you are ignoring the muslims who don't accept that the massacre even happened, in which case it is clearly not every single muslim on earth, man woman and child as you insist.

As I keep saying, you singularly deny muslims any agency to think for themselves (and then laughably contradict yourself by acknowledging muslims who are morally flexible). You laughably insist 1.5 billion men women and children from all cultures, from all corners of the globe are in lock-step on this one belief - which also just happens to be the most inflamatory smear you could possibly think of (whats worse than supporting genocide?), and which is obviously particularly sensitive in the context of our own western cultural history. That is applying group think in the most blatant and bigoted way - with the express aim of defaming and smearing an entire religious group of people.

We've been over this. Plenty of other people also think Muhammad committed genocide.

Plenty of muslims don't. Some even don't believe it happened at all.

But you singularly deny every one of them any agency to think for themselves, and arrogantly apply a blanket "FD-think" on all of us. *YOU* insist its genocide, therefore muslims must accept it as such, and therefore just like that, you get 20% of the world's population all in perfect lock step, of one mind (dare I say a 'mindless collective'??) in supporting genocide. No questions, no ifs or buts. Apparently without even any of the 'moral flexibility' or hypocricy you just finished explaining is a feature of muslims.

There are two words starting with 'r' that describe this - one is 'ridiculous'.

Starting with R?

Shurely shome mishtake.

Don't you mean W?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #213 - May 11^th, 2019 at 1:03am

freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 3:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 6:44pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 2:49pm:

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2019 at 12:28pm:

Quote:

Not necessarily, because in this case you are talking about a rational cognitive process to arrive at that belief

Are you suggesting my explanation in the OP is not a rational cognitive process?

Absolutely FD. You insist that 20% of the world's population unquestioningly support genocide - and worse, your insistence is not even based on any Islamic view on genocide, nor on any knowledge on your part on how muslims actually view genocide. Merely on the false logic that because you (but no one else) think Muhammad committed genocide, and because muslims must consider Muhammad as the best of men, ipso facto, muslims must support genocide. Where does one even begin at dismantling such flaw in logic? If nothing else, you are ignoring the muslims who don't accept that the massacre even happened, in which case it is clearly not every single muslim on earth, man woman and child as you insist.

As I keep saying, you singularly deny muslims any agency to think for themselves (and then laughably contradict yourself by acknowledging muslims who are morally flexible). You laughably insist 1.5 billion men women and children from all cultures, from all corners of the globe are in lock-step on this one belief - which also just happens to be the most inflamatory smear you could possibly think of (whats worse than supporting genocide?), and which is obviously particularly sensitive in the context of our own western cultural history. That is applying group think in the most blatant and bigoted way - with the express aim of defaming and smearing an entire religious group of people.

We've been over this. Plenty of other people also think Muhammad committed genocide.

Plenty of muslims don't. Some even don't believe it happened at all.

But you singularly deny every one of them any agency to think for themselves, and arrogantly apply a blanket "FD-think" on all of us. *YOU* insist its genocide, therefore muslims must accept it as such, and therefore just like that, you get 20% of the world's population all in perfect lock step, of one mind (dare I say a 'mindless collective'??) in supporting genocide. No questions, no ifs or buts. Apparently without even any of the 'moral flexibility' or hypocricy you just finished explaining is a feature of muslims.

There are two words starting with 'r' that describe this - one is 'ridiculous'.

You tried the denial angle also. But you still maintained that you support the genocide even if it didn't happen.

I am not denying anyone the agency to think for themselves. In fact I credit Muslims with great creativity in coming up with ways to support genocide.

That's true, FD. Let's write down all the creative ways the Muselman supports genocide.

1. Moh killed some Jews.

2. Your Muselman worships Moh.

3. Always absolutely never ever.

Have we missed any of their creative solutions?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47352 At my desk.	Re: All Muslims support genocide Reply #214 - May 11^th, 2019 at 8:55am Tough titties, off with their heads. They were literally a mindless collective of treacherous Jews, with no individual personality. etc etc
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92258 Gender:	Re: All Muslims support genocide Reply #215 - May 11^th, 2019 at 2:06pm freediver wrote on May 11^th, 2019 at 8:55am: Tough titties, off with their heads. They were literally a mindless collective of treacherous Jews, with no individual personality. etc etc You said that, FD. Supporting genocide, are you? Naughty naughty.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #216 - May 13^th, 2019 at 2:53pm

freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

I am not denying anyone the agency to think for themselves. In fact I credit Muslims with great creativity in coming up with ways to support genocide.

You really are FD.

You are claiming that every single muslim, man woman and child support genocide - without even bothering to hear what they have to say about it.

Thats as clear cut case of denying people agency as you can get FD

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: All Muslims support genocide Reply #217 - May 13^th, 2019 at 2:58pm freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 6:46pm: I am not denying anyone the agency to think for themselves. In fact I credit Muslims with great creativity in coming up with ways to support genocide. You are singularly denying them agency to reject genocide. More succinct than my previous post I think.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Mattyfisk

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #218 - May 13^th, 2019 at 4:05pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 2:53pm:

freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

I am not denying anyone the agency to think for themselves. In fact I credit Muslims with great creativity in coming up with ways to support genocide.

You really are FD.

You are claiming that every single muslim, man woman and child support genocide - without even bothering to hear what they have to say about it.

Thats as clear cut case of denying people agency as you can get FD

Freeeedom, innit.

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freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #219 - May 13^th, 2019 at 4:43pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 2:53pm:

freediver wrote on May 10^th, 2019 at 6:46pm:

I am not denying anyone the agency to think for themselves. In fact I credit Muslims with great creativity in coming up with ways to support genocide.

You really are FD.

You are claiming that every single muslim, man woman and child support genocide - without even bothering to hear what they have to say about it.

Thats as clear cut case of denying people agency as you can get FD

I bothered to hear why you support genocide. And Abu. And Falah. And Lestat. And a few others I think.

Do I have to personally speak to a billion people before you let me say anything about Muslims?

Quote:

You are singularly denying them agency to reject genocide.

Wrong. I am saying they choose to support genocide.

Am I denying you agency when I say you support genocide?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #220 - May 13^th, 2019 at 7:15pm

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 4:43pm:

Do I have to personally speak to a billion people before you let me say anything about Muslims?

Of course not FD. But you are the one insisting that every single one of them, man woman and child, supports genocide. 1.5 billion of them. Not just a 'popular belief amongst muslims' or even a 'predominate belief amongst muslims' - no. Every single one of them without exceptions. Tell me how this is possible without personally knowing what each and every muslim thinks? How is this not just dismissing 20% of the entire population as a mindless hive mind who have no agency? You somehow 'know' that not a single one of them goes through any sort of rationalising process to decide that genocide is just not for them. This may be in spite of what they believe about Muhammad, or because of it. No, sorry not allowed. FD gets to define what they believe and why they believe it. You are, as we say, denying them any human agency for thinking for themselves. You think for them. Which is passing strange after you just finished explaining to me how muslims can be 'morally flexible' in, for example, believing that Islam is peaceful.

Muslims can be morally flexible - but apparently not on the issue of supporting genocide.

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 4:43pm:

Quote:
You are singularly denying them agency to reject genocide.

Wrong.

Lets put this to the test shall we? Would you accept a muslim's rejection of genocide?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #221 - May 13^th, 2019 at 7:26pm

Quote:

Of course not FD. But you are the one insisting that every single one of them, man woman and child, supports genocide. 1.5 billion of them. Not just a 'popular belief amongst muslims' or even a 'predominate belief amongst muslims' - no. Every single one of them without exceptions.

Would it be fair to say that every single one of them is a follower of Muhammad?

Quote:

Would you accept a muslim's rejection of genocide?

It depends how sneaky they are being, like with your weasel words on the mindless collective of treacherous Jews thing.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #222 - May 13^th, 2019 at 7:47pm

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 7:26pm:

Would it be fair to say that every single one of them is a follower of Muhammad?

No.

Define 'follower'.

Muslims 'follow' the Quran FD. They follow Allah.

Contemporaries of Muhammad 'followed' Muhammad. Many muslims today read the sayings and behaviours of Muhammad and follow those, but there is a significant number who reject the ahadith and sunna and follow the Quran only. For these people, Muhammad plays no real role in their religion. As for the 'best of mankind to follow' verse, many muslims simply take this as intended only for Muhammad's immediate contemporaries. Apart from this line, the Quran hardly says anything about Muhammad. Moses is mentioned more.

For a great deal of muslims, the alleged banu Qurayza massacre would be completely irrelevant for them. There would be no reason for such muslims to unquestioningly support 'genocide' on the pretext that Muhammad did it.

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 7:26pm:

It depends how sneaky they are being, like with your weasel words on the mindless collective of treacherous Jews thing.

Like me? Well I'm a genocide 'true believer' according to you - so it doesn't seem like you are giving them much choice. Like I said, muslims think how FD says they think. Although of course we are generously given the chance to disprove our default guilt.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #223 - May 13^th, 2019 at 8:23pm

Quote:

Muslims 'follow' the Quran FD. They follow Allah.

What do Muslims know about the Quran and Allah, other than what Muhammad told them?

Does the Quran tell Muslims that Muhammad is the best example to all mankind?

Quote:

but there is a significant number who reject the ahadith and sunna and follow the Quran only. For these people, Muhammad plays no real role in their religion.

You mean other than telling them what the Quran is?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #224 - May 13^th, 2019 at 10:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 7:15pm:

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 4:43pm:

Do I have to personally speak to a billion people before you let me say anything about Muslims?

Of course not FD. But you are the one insisting that every single one of them, man woman and child, supports genocide. 1.5 billion of them. Not just a 'popular belief amongst muslims' or even a 'predominate belief amongst muslims' - no. Every single one of them without exceptions. Tell me how this is possible without personally knowing what each and every muslim thinks? How is this not just dismissing 20% of the entire population as a mindless hive mind who have no agency? You somehow 'know' that not a single one of them goes through any sort of rationalising process to decide that genocide is just not for them. This may be in spite of what they believe about Muhammad, or because of it. No, sorry not allowed. FD gets to define what they believe and why they believe it. You are, as we say, denying them any human agency for thinking for themselves. You think for them. Which is passing strange after you just finished explaining to me how muslims can be 'morally flexible' in, for example, believing that Islam is peaceful.

Muslims can be morally flexible - but apparently not on the issue of supporting genocide.

freediver wrote on May 13^th, 2019 at 4:43pm:

Quote:
You are singularly denying them agency to reject genocide.

Wrong.

Lets put this to the test shall we? Would you accept a muslim's rejection of genocide?

Oh, look. FD won't say.

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