Australian Politics Forum - All Muslims support genocide

freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #435 - Jun 28^th, 2019 at 7:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28^th, 2019 at 7:10pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2019 at 6:57pm:

Quote:

Nor is it the same as actually supporting genocide.

So it is two completely different issues? Thanks for clarifying. Is it time to move on yet, or shall we dwell on this for another 20 pages?

Depends whether or not you have yet grasped the simple concept that simply parrotting "denying genocide is not the same as actually opposing genocide" - doesn't actually have any relevance to your argument that all muslims, in fact *DO* support genocide. My guess is that you don't, since you keep trotting it out every time I point out that genocide-deniers don't need to follow the cognitive processes you outline as your "argument" in the OP (which requires genuinely held belief in the historiocity of the event - otherwise its completely nonsensical) - as if it is somehow a legitimate rebuttal.

Feel free to insert "but it wasn't really genocide" into any step of the cognitive process Gandalf. Along with cornflakes and any other obfuscation you wish.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #436 - Jun 28^th, 2019 at 7:29pm

Quote:

Feel free to insert "but it wasn't really genocide"

Yes that would work in your logic FD - congratulations. I'm sure the nazis don't call the slaughter of 6 million jews 'genocide' either.

The problem is, thats not what you need to insert.

Try inserting instead "Muhammad did not commit the mass execution he is accused of - thereby negating the need to spinelessly apologise for it - including denying such mass slaughter was genocide"

But let me guess - "because... gandalf"?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mr Hammer

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #437 - Jun 28^th, 2019 at 7:46pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28^th, 2019 at 7:29pm:

Quote:

Feel free to insert "but it wasn't really genocide"

Yes that would work in your logic FD - congratulations. I'm sure the nazis don't call the slaughter of 6 million jews 'genocide' either.

The problem is, thats not what you need to insert.

Try inserting instead "Muhammad did not commit the mass execution he is accused of - thereby negating the need to spinelessly apologise for it - including denying such mass slaughter was genocide"

But let me guess - "because... gandalf"?

I'm pretty sure Muslim armies did wipe out whole tribal groups, villages etc. The Christians did it also. That's genocide. ISIS almost did it to the Yazidi's in Syria. They weren't far off.

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freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #438 - Jun 28^th, 2019 at 10:20pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28^th, 2019 at 7:29pm:

Quote:

Feel free to insert "but it wasn't really genocide"

Yes that would work in your logic FD - congratulations. I'm sure the nazis don't call the slaughter of 6 million jews 'genocide' either.

The problem is, thats not what you need to insert.

Try inserting instead "Muhammad did not commit the mass execution he is accused of - thereby negating the need to spinelessly apologise for it - including denying such mass slaughter was genocide"

But let me guess - "because... gandalf"?

And what is wrong with my previous explanation of this? I'll give you a hint. It wasn't "because... gandalf".

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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #439 - Jun 29^th, 2019 at 12:13am

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2019 at 10:20pm:

And what is wrong with my previous explanation of this? I'll give you a hint. It wasn't "because... gandalf".

I'm sure you genuinely believe such an explanation exists, but all I've seen is incoherent nonsense, with the only thing that remotely makes sense is "because... gandalf". Everything else seems to be padding around that central theme.

Can you give it one more shot? Apologies in advance if it means repeating yourself, and please no need to fill your reply up with paragraphs of "slippery, evasive muslim" etc invectives. Just pretend I'm really stupid and can't understand what you've been saying, and really dumb it down for me in a catchy concise sentence or two. Can you do that FD?

And just to ensure we are on the same page - it is this opening argument that I want you to explain:

Quote:

Muslims believe that Muhammad (tgp) is the best example for all Muslims to follow. The Quran tells them so. So they cannot let something like Muhammad's genocide of the Medina Jews reflect badly on Islam or Muhammad. So, their religion compels them to support Muhammad's genocide.

Specifically: explain to me how this logic applies to muslims who reject the historiocity of the alleged massacre - not merely those who believe it but try and explain it away/downplay it. I'm talking about muslims who say "the entire male population was not condemned to death" - the tribe was not wiped out by Muhammad, no collective/indiscriminate punishment, therefore no genocide.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #440 - Jun 29^th, 2019 at 8:11am

From the previous page:

Even if they revised the numbers down to zero, they would still have to contend with the fact that the vast majority of Muslims claim Muhammad did something evil, and they don't want to put themselves in the position where a disagreement over historical fact, in which they are in the minority, is all it takes to paint Muhammad as evil.

Quote:

Most muslims FD? Thats funny, I'd say most muslims accept the numbers quoted by Islamic sources at face value. Where on earth did you get this idea?

And yet they still deny it is genocide. From the same post:

Or some other bald-faced lie such as it was an act of war, they were an army, or only the warriors were killed - all lies you have tried to tell us.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #441 - Jul 4^th, 2019 at 3:19pm

I was hoping you wouldn't drag this quote out FD, as it makes no freaking sense at all. Or at least, I was hoping that if you did drag it out, you would at least make it more comprehensible. Alas it was a forlorn hope Sad

Lets at least try and break it down then....

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 8:11am:

Even if they revised the numbers down to zero, they would still have to contend with the fact that the vast majority of Muslims claim Muhammad did something evil

Why is this a contention? Personally I have no problem with disagreeing with other muslims on any number of theological points (and this is not even theological, but historical).

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 8:11am:

and they don't want to put themselves in the position where a disagreement over historical fact, in which they are in the minority, is all it takes to paint Muhammad as evil.

This is where the logical fallacy kicks in. Plus it makes no sense. I don't even know where to begin, as it is literally incomprehensible. So I guess this is what I meant by "pretend I'm stupid - dumb it down even more please".

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 8:11am:

Quote:
Most muslims FD? Thats funny, I'd say most muslims accept the numbers quoted by Islamic sources at face value. Where on earth did you get this idea?

And yet they still deny it is genocide.

No FD, these are not the genocide deniers.

Genocide deniers obviously don't accept any figure that purports to be the slaughter of the entire male population.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2019 at 8:11am:

Or some other bald-faced lie such as it was an act of war, they were an army, or only the warriors were killed - all lies you have tried to tell us.

Or try even "only the ringleaders/those directly involved in treating with the enemy" - all other males, including warriors, were spared.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98425	Re: All Muslims support genocide Reply #442 - Jul 4^th, 2019 at 3:52pm Even the slaughter of one Jew is genocide, G - even if they reduced the number down to zero. This means you must support genocide. And if you don't, you're a dastardly genocide denier. So typical of your Muselman.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #443 - Jul 4^th, 2019 at 3:56pm

Karnal wrote on Jul 4^th, 2019 at 3:52pm:

Even the slaughter of one Jew is genocide, G - even if they reduced the number down to zero.

He seems to be saying that even if you believe zero were slaughtered, you still have to spinelessly apologise for a hypothetical slaughter of hundreds... because err.. they don't want to put themselves in a position of disputing history?... or something like that. Honestly I can't make head nor tail of that argument. Can you?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50566 At my desk.	Re: All Muslims support genocide Reply #444 - Jul 4^th, 2019 at 5:22pm Quote: Why is this a contention? Personally I have no problem with disagreeing with other muslims on any number of theological points (and this is not even theological, but historical). If you had quoted the rest of the sentence, you would not need to ask.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51464 Gender:	Re: All Muslims support genocide Reply #445 - Jul 4^th, 2019 at 7:43pm Muslims regard themselves as a race apart. Allah's chosen, special people, supplanting the Jews. Explains their psychology and motivations for wanting to eliminate the Jews and lord it over everyone else ('caliphate, jihad, dhimmitude').
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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #446 - Jul 5^th, 2019 at 11:30am

freediver wrote on Jul 4^th, 2019 at 5:22pm:

Quote:

Why is this a contention? Personally I have no problem with disagreeing with other muslims on any number of theological points (and this is not even theological, but historical).

If you had quoted the rest of the sentence, you would not need to ask.

The next sentence makes absolutely no sense FD, thats what I said - if only you had read my next sentence.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #447 - Jul 5^th, 2019 at 7:42pm

It means that if the vast majority of mainstreams muslims were correct on the 'technical' question of historical fact, then they would be forced to concede that Muhammad was evil. Hence, Muslims who deny the genocide also find a way to support it if it did happen.

All Muslims do this. Even the mainstream ones who give the 600 to 900 dead Jews figure find a way to deny that it was genocide at the same time as supporting it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #448 - Jul 5^th, 2019 at 8:58pm

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2019 at 7:42pm:

It means that if the vast majority of mainstreams muslims were correct on the 'technical' question of historical fact, then they would be forced to concede that Muhammad was evil.

This is complete jibberish FD. *IF* they are correct? What about *IF* they are not? Its meaningless jibberish.

What actually happened as a matter of historical fact (which neither of us know for sure) is neither here nor there to the only issue that matters here - which is what muslims actually believe. The only way your jibberish could possibly come close to making sense was if you arrogantly assume that it definitely did happen, and furthermore that all muslims must secrety accept that it happened, and go through, as a perfect singular mind, the absurd logical leaps you set out in the OP that leads them to support genocide. Yet another manifestation of the mindless collective argument.

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2019 at 7:42pm:

Muslims who deny the genocide also find a way to support it if it did happen.

Oh I know FD, because... gandalf. We're still working on why that necessarily means every other genocide-denying muslim thinks the same, but not to worry, I'm sure another 40 pages and we'll get there.

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2019 at 7:42pm:

All Muslims do this.

Of course FD, you know for a fact what 1.5 billion people "do"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: All Muslims support genocide
Reply #449 - Jul 5^th, 2019 at 9:32pm

Quote:

What actually happened as a matter of historical fact (which neither of us know for sure) is neither here nor there to the only issue that matters here - which is what muslims actually believe. The only way your jibberish could possibly come close to making sense was if you arrogantly assume that it definitely did happen, and furthermore that all muslims must secrety accept that it happened

The vast majority openly accept that it happened - hence the problem for those theoretical Muslims of yours who hold that if those vast majority are correct, the foundation of their faith is an evil man.

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