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Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh.. (Read 1723 times)
lee
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #15 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 12:55pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 12:49pm:
Roberts, just like you, focuses on an obscure small percentage of the data and ignores the overwhelming evidence from the vast majority of data that paints the picture of Global Warming.


Yes The small percentage of the data? The small percentage of the data from the Southern Hemisphere forms a large part of the uncertainty that is forgotten about.

It is supposed to be GLOBAL isn't it?

With you it is like beiing in an arse kicking competition with a one legged man. You really cannot admit the paucity of data in the Southern Hemisphere.
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #16 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:01pm
 
LOL

To state that there is less data south of 300 is stating the obvious isn't it?

Not many highly populated land masses down that way!

The majority of land is in the Northern Hemisphere.

However, there are more remote temperature sensors than in the past.

Like I said, all well and good to focus on a small issue and ignore the overwhelming evidence.

That's typical Malcolm Roberts stuff.  Grin
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« Last Edit: Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:06pm by Captain Nemo »  

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lee
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #17 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 2:12pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
To state that there is less data south of 300 is stating the obvious isn't it?



yes petal. So answer the question. How do they average global temps with the paucity of data, which you acknowledge?

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
Not many highly populated land masses down that way!



That's why Sea Surface Temperatures are so important. Oh that's right there is a severe lack of data for that as well. You do know they combine both to come up with a hemispherical estimated temperature?

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
The majority of land is in the Northern Hemisphere.



No sh!t Sherlock. It doesn't help to work out a global temperature, it merely weights it more to NH temperatures.

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
However, there are more remote temperature sensors than in the past.



So now they may be getting close to getting good data coverage. It doesn't help the past from which your graph relies.

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
Like I said, all well and good to focus on a small issue and ignore the overwhelming evidence.



It is only a small issue in your tiny brain.
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #18 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 2:41pm
 
Even if the data points are relatively fewer than elsewhere ... how does that negate the data telling us that there is record warming taking place?

You miss the wider picture by continuing to focus on irrelevant points.  Roll Eyes Just like Malcolm Roberts.  Grin
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #19 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 2:47pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 2:41pm:
Even if the data points are relatively fewer than elsewhere ... how does that negate the data telling us that there is record warming taking place?



Relatively fewer? Shouldn't the data points be relatively the same so that there is no bias? Grin Grin Grin Grin

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 2:41pm:
You miss the wider picture by continuing to focus on irrelevant points.


You have trouble seeing the picture. Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #20 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:16pm
 
Let's say there are 50 data point locations. Those 50 data point locations have been recording temperatures for over a hundred years.

Those 50 data point locations are telling us that the minimum and maximum temperatures are increasing over time.

To which you say: "Nah, isn't happening."  Roll Eyes

To which I say: "You're an idiot."  Wink
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #21 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 4:34pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Let's say there are 50 data point locations. Those 50 data point locations have been recording temperatures for over a hundred years.

Those 50 data point locations are telling us that the minimum and maximum temperatures are increasing over time.


Let's see - The Southern Hemisphere is one half of 510 MILLION square kilometres (255M sq Km).

50 data points? About 5 MILLION square KM represented  by each - assuming they are all equidistant.

And you could discern an average temperature from those 50 data points? Grin Grin Grin Grin

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:16pm:
To which you say: "Nah, isn't happening."



Nope I don't. I say we have no way of knowing because the data is too sparse.

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:16pm:
To which I say: "You're an idiot."



Yes. That's what tends to happen when YOU are losing the debate. Wink
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #22 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 10:20am
 
The data is not too sparse.

As to the number of data stations actually used around the planet:

The NASA GISTEMP record is the most detailed of the four datasets, with grid boxes two degrees longitude by two degrees latitude.

The other three have grid boxes measuring five by five degrees. They also differ in how many land stations they have around the world, too. HadCRUT4 has about 5,500, GISTEMP takes middle place with about 6,300, but MLOST has the most of all, with about 7,000 land stations.


They all come up with very similar results:

...

Global average temperature anomaly from 1880 to 2012, compared to the 1951-1980 long term average. Source: NASA Earth Observatory.

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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #23 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 11:54am
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 10:20am:
The data is not too sparse.



At your proposed 50 stations it is. What be be the level o uncertainty inolved for a mere 50 stations? Grin Grin Grin Grin

Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 29th, 2018 at 10:20am:
The other three have grid boxes measuring five by five degrees. They also differ in how many land stations they have around the world, too. HadCRUT4 has about 5,500, GISTEMP takes middle place with about 6,300, but MLOST has the most of all, with about 7,000 land stations.



All the way back to 1880? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

The earth's circumference is about 40,000 Km. To find the arc distance 5/360*40000. About 550km. So if we assume a box 5ºx5º it would be 302,500 sq km. And you are going to assume that the same conditions apply uniformly in that area.  Grin Grin Grin Grin

hese 5x5 grids? What happens when there is no landmass? The ocean is vast, especially in the Southern Hemisphere.

So what didn't you understand about the sparseness of the data in the SH?

"Tom,
        The issue Ray alludes to is that in addition to the issue
      of many more drifters providing measurements over the last
      5-10 years, the measurements are coming in from places where
      we didn't have much ship data in the past. For much of the SH
      between 40 and 60S the normals are mostly made up as there is
      very little ship data there."

https://web.archive.org/web/20131101144134/http://di2.nu/foia/foia2011/mail/2729...

That email was in 2009. So how good was the "made up" data prior to that?

Or this-

"
From John McLean's PHD thesis on HADCRUT4 data -

"For two years the entire Southern Hemisphere temperature was estimated from one sole land-based site in Indonesia and some ship data. We didn’t get 50% global coverage until 1906. We didn’t consistently get 50% Southern Hemisphere coverage until about 1950."

So just how much of this "global data" just made up?

You keep going back to 1880 as if the "data" actually existed.
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Re: Don't tell anyone, Its a Secret... shhhhh..
Reply #24 - Nov 29th, 2018 at 1:54pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 1:01pm:
LOL

To state that there is less data south of 300 is stating the obvious isn't it?

Not many highly populated land masses down that way!

The majority of land is in the Northern Hemisphere.

However, there are more remote temperature sensors than in the past.

Like I said, all well and good to focus on a small issue and ignore the overwhelming evidence.

That's typical Malcolm Roberts stuff.  Grin

Assymetry is always an argument in real life data collection: it's a political problem but science has always been political in essence- and thus the technology it serves as a basis for.

That is why battery technology was ignored for the bulk of the 20th century because it didn't power the industrial complex that first world countries needed to secure their borders!

...it's all valid argument until the poo hits the fan because people do what works... the people that get heard that is!

THUS THE MEDIA HAS BEEN LAUGHED AT BY THE BIGGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD FOR A GOOD DECADE BEFORE TRUMP HIT THE SCENE: EVEN IN AUSTRALIA WE GET OUR NEWS DELIVERED BY COMEDIANS  Cheesy

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