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Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby (Read 8774 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #15 - Nov 21st, 2018 at 5:55pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Nov 21st, 2018 at 12:40am:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 20th, 2018 at 5:10pm:
Mortdooley wrote on Nov 20th, 2018 at 12:15am:
Would it really do any harm to review all of the restrictions placed on your citizens? It is my understanding that your restrictions include regulating the ownership of the Daisy Red Rider BB gun. A smooth bore, spring powered device that might shoot your eye out per "A Christmas Story"!

Are your people so indoctrinated by your time as a colony of a Monarchy that you still feel the population is subservient to government? Would it really be so bad to go down a list of restrictions and say some of them serve no reasonable purpose and delete them? Occasionally we have a burst of common sense here and remove pointless restrictions. Maybe your government needs a little common sense gun law reviews. The likelihood that something will be used in a crime is a good indication of whether it should be restricted or not.

"Because you don't need that" isn't a valid reason to restrict!


The restrictions have not resulted in fewer firearms.  Just fewer firearms of the types that Cowboys and lunatics seem to prefer.  There are now more firearms in private hands than there were before Port Arthur.   So, the claim that Australia has been disarmed are completely false, which is so typical of the US NRA - relying on lies and innuendo to create an atmosphere of fear to justify their acquisition of firearms of types unsuitable to hunting.

Our firearm laws are suitable to Australian society - firearms ownership has always been a privilege, not a "right" downunder.   Scoot back to America, please with your bullshit.  The overwhelming majority of Australians are quite happy with the gun laws we have...   Roll Eyes


Privilege is for children and employees, Citizens have Rights even if they are not recognized by their country. While I am not criticizing your system, self defense in your country seems to be less than a privilege and can result in prosecution! Your legal system is based on throwing innocent people to the wolves as in Russian folk lore. 


"Rights" must be recognised in order for them to exist.  Australians have few "rights" under our Constitution.   Comes from being a British colony originally.   Britains have few "rights" as well.   Gun ownership has, since 1788 been recognised as a privilege, one granted by Government to the citizens when they are deemed responsible enough and under conditions of ownership.   As you much as you may dislike that, Australians accept it.  You must demonstrate that you are responsible, fit and are not intending to use your firearm to cause harm and mayhem to your fellow citizens.   Unfortunately, some firearms owners failed in that and after Port Arthur, the types of firearms were restricted.   Again, Australians were overwhelming in favour of those measures.   We have no had anything like Port Arthur occur again as a consequence.  Something Americans seem to suffer weekly in their society where firearms are considered a "right".   Guess which society I prefer to live in?

Quote:
The troika hurtles across the frozen plain. The wolves are close behind, and from time to time a peasant is hurled from the sleigh in the hope of letting the more important people escape. But nothing distracts the pack for long, not even when the occupants of the sleigh move up the pecking order and throw a couple of minor aristocrats to the wolves.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/7033/did-travelers-by-troika-throw-...


There are several major errors with your story which move it to the realm of folklore, rather than fact, mate.  There is a major error there: aristocrats never rode together with peasants.  Russians if going through a Wolf prone area, carried weapons.   Finally, the number of Wolf attacks are easily counted on one hand's fingers.   They were as rare as hen's teeth.

Quote:
We have totally different views about how responsible your fellow citizens are, I give them more credit than you! Since your family tree does not include convict immigrants you are clearly the superior man!


I trust my fellow Australians because they are Australians and not Americans.  They know they don't live in the Wild West, unlike Americans who believe they need to murder each other with gay abandon...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Secret Wars
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #16 - Nov 21st, 2018 at 6:57pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 21st, 2018 at 5:55pm:
I trust my fellow Australians because they are Australians and not Americans.  They know they don't live in the Wild West, unlike Americans who believe they need to murder each other with gay abandon...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian you need to watch your use of ordinary language, because unless you stipulate "some" Americans, forum morons will leap to the strawman accusing you of accusing all Americans and say things like "not a monolith" and "majority are peaceloving" and garnishing it all with spastic tics like tsk tsk and spasms of eye rolling.

It's stupid, moronic and pointless I know, so just a heads up for you. 

Grin Grin
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Jasin
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #17 - Nov 21st, 2018 at 9:12pm
 
Well said Brian.

In the USA - every idiot can own a gun. Every 'irresponsible' person can own a gun.
Every psychotic with a social issue can own a gun.
The USA constitution shoots itself in the foot and hence why the USA is a nation of...
TERRORISTS
as well.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Mortdooley
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #18 - Nov 21st, 2018 at 11:33pm
 
Quote:
"Rights" must be recognised in order for them to exist.



Not so, you have a right to the air you breathe and the time nature (God)gives you to live on this earth. No one has a right to deny you that, at least not without due process!

Quote:
I trust my fellow Australians because they are Australians and not Americans.  They know they don't live in the Wild West, unlike Americans who believe they need to murder each other with gay abandon...



I don't live in the Wild West either and stay out of the Barrios and Ghettos. Call it racist but white Americans don't commit violent crimes at a rate any higher than other majority white nations regardless of gun laws! Those that do have been overwhelmingly liberal, the Media would dearly love to be able to report that Conservative voting NRA members were the shooters! But then this isn't about me or our laws, it is about yours.

What is wrong with looking at the whole of your gun laws? If something has never been a problem and has little likelihood of ever being one why regulate or ban it? Are you Citizens or Subjects?
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rhino
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #19 - Nov 21st, 2018 at 11:37pm
 
No reason to trust idiots with firearms. Idiots comprise at least 50 percent of the population and increasing. Case closed.
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Jasin
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #20 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 12:54am
 
So Mortdooley.

There's a shooter massacring kids in a school.
Your only option from President down, is to all agree
that Teachers should be armed with guns too.
  Roll Eyes
So obviously - its all about creating more excuses to sell guns.
Then one of the Teachers has a bad hair day and shoots all the kids in class because one did a spit ball from a pen.
Are they going to arm all the kids with guns too
Roll Eyes

So you see - we know what the USA 'Guns Rights' really are - just a manufactured production sell.

You may have 'your' Gun rights in 'your' nation.
But in the INTERNATIONAL scene - the USA is in the WRONG.


Every nation is in the 'International' Pub.
Then an American walks in.
Is asked to leave his gun outside.
He cries "Its my right!"
The Publican states "Only in your own house drongo. Not here on the World stage. Disarm or get lost!"
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Jasin
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #21 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 1:09am
 
PS: Better to serve Britain, than to serve JEWS like you do in the USA
Tongue
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #22 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 10:38pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Nov 21st, 2018 at 11:33pm:
Quote:
"Rights" must be recognised in order for them to exist.


Not so, you have a right to the air you breathe and the time nature (God)gives you to live on this earth. No one has a right to deny you that, at least not without due process!


Governments must recognise rights for them to exist.  Without the Rule of Law, you are faced with the Rule of Man and that is what rules in the US - who ever has the largest number or type of gun plus the fastest trigger finger rules.  Tsk, tsk, one only has to listen to the news from the US every day - another gun massacre, another pre-school full of dead children, another party which was popped by a passerby with a gun...   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Quote:
I trust my fellow Australians because they are Australians and not Americans.  They know they don't live in the Wild West, unlike Americans who believe they need to murder each other with gay abandon...


I don't live in the Wild West either and stay out of the Barrios and Ghettos. Call it racist but white Americans don't commit violent crimes at a rate any higher than other majority white nations regardless of gun laws! Those that do have been overwhelmingly liberal, the Media would dearly love to be able to report that Conservative voting NRA members were the shooters! But then this isn't about me or our laws, it is about yours.

What is wrong with looking at the whole of your gun laws? If something has never been a problem and has little likelihood of ever being one why regulate or ban it? Are you Citizens or Subjects?


Our gun laws are too young to need revision along the lines the NRA wants.  We want fewer guns in our society, not more and definitely not owned by gun nuts who believe in killing their fellow citizens.  Run along, back to your WIld West society, back to where violence is accepted, where people are taught to hate one another and have the means to carry out their hatreds.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mortdooley
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #23 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 10:55pm
 
Jasin wrote on Nov 22nd, 2018 at 12:54am:
So Mortdooley.

There's a shooter massacring kids in a school.
Your only option from President down, is to all agree
that Teachers should be armed with guns too.
  Roll Eyes
So obviously - its all about creating more excuses to sell guns.
Then one of the Teachers has a bad hair day and shoots all the kids in class because one did a spit ball from a pen.
Are they going to arm all the kids with guns too
Roll Eyes

So you see - we know what the USA 'Guns Rights' really are - just a manufactured production sell.

You may have 'your' Gun rights in 'your' nation.
But in the INTERNATIONAL scene - the USA is in the WRONG.


Every nation is in the 'International' Pub.
Then an American walks in.
Is asked to leave his gun outside.
He cries "Its my right!"
The Publican states "Only in your own house drongo. Not here on the World stage. Disarm or get lost!"



The dishonest narrative of giving teachers guns along with their study plans is a canard. No one ever proposed that! If any staff member at a school is willing to get the proper training and willing to place their lives on the line for their students they should be allowed to have a firearm handy. I personally know a man that works as a History teacher at a private school, he supported his family as a Police Officer while earning his university Degree. I expect you feel it would be wrong for him to be discretely armed.

In all time I have had these types of conversations I have only had one person tell me what their real issue is. You feel if you had a gun available and had some emotional episode you would shoot innocent people! I don't think you would but I don't know you.
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The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. ~Ecc. 10:2
 
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Mortdooley
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #24 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:33pm
 
Quote:
Our gun laws are too young to need revision along the lines the NRA wants.  We want fewer guns in our society, not more and definitely not owned by gun nuts who believe in killing their fellow citizens.  Run along, back to your WIld West society, back to where violence is accepted, where people are taught to hate one another and have the means to carry out their hatreds.




I shutter shudder to think what could happen if one of your citizens were found on a public place in possession of a boomerang. (fixed it just for you)

At what velocity does a pellet gun become a firearm or a cross bow and how many crimes have been committed with each?  Does the Italian reproductions of percussion and flintlock firearms have the same restrictions as modern design firearms?
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« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:54am by Mortdooley »  

The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. ~Ecc. 10:2
 
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rhino
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #25 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:47pm
 
A boomerang is not classed as a firearm Mort, learn the difference. Never been a mass school shooting in Australia Mort, how many in your country just the last year. Get a grip man.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #26 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:50pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:33pm:
Quote:
Our gun laws are too young to need revision along the lines the NRA wants.  We want fewer guns in our society, not more and definitely not owned by gun nuts who believe in killing their fellow citizens.  Run along, back to your WIld West society, back to where violence is accepted, where people are taught to hate one another and have the means to carry out their hatreds.


I shutter to think what could happen if one of your citizens were found on a public place in possession of a boomerang.


I think you mean, "shudder" not "shutter", Mort.

Boomerangs are not considered dangerous weapons.  It takes real skill to use a Boomerang and then, the worse it could do for you is give you a clout on the back of your head.  Hunting Boomerangs are rare beasts and resemble small throwing logs, rather than a curved stick and they definitely don't come back once thrown.

Quote:
At what velocity does a pellet gun become a firearm or a cross bow and how many crimes have been committed with each?  Does the Italian reproductions of percussion and flintlock firearms have the same restrictions as modern design firearms?


In Western Australia, where I reside Firearms are defined as:

Quote:
Firearm types
Pneumatic firearms

Pneumatic firearms are commonly referred to as air guns. Some firearms have rifled barrels and some do not. Most are not fitted with any type of safety catch. They come in various calibres however mainly .177 or .22 and there are pneumatic pistols and rifles available in these calibres. They are usually single shot firearms although some gas operated models have magazines.
Break open firearms

Break open firearms are usually single or double barrel shotguns in various gauges but can include some rifles and handguns. In most cases there is a lever on the rear of the action or top tang. Generally moving this lever to the right allows the action to be opened.

Usually firearms of this type will have the safety catch located at the rear of the lever that opens the action making it readily accessible to the shooter's thumb. Some models have no external safety catch.
Bolt action firearms

Bolt action firearms are usually a repeating rifle or single shot in almost every conceivable calibre and can include some shotguns. They may have a fixed or removable box magazine, hinged floor or tubular magazine under the barrel or in the butt of the firearm. These firearms can be easily identified by a turned bolt, with the bolt handle usually on the right-hand side of the action. The bolt is raised and drawn to the rear to open the action. Safety catches are normally found at the rear of the action behind the bolt handle or near the trigger guard.
Lever action firearms

Lever action firearms are usually manually operated repeating rifles and can be identified by the cocking lever under the action of the firearm. They usually have a tubular magazine under the barrel or movable box magazine. They are available in a variety of calibres.

Downwards movement on the lever opens the action. Most of the western style rifles will not be fitted with a safety however the newer models have been fitted with a push button safety just in front of the hammer.
Pump action firearms

Pump action firearms are common in shotguns of various gauges but can also include rifles in rim fire and centre fire calibres.

They can be identified by a sliding fore end that is drawn to the rear to open the action. They can be fitted with a tubular magazine under the barrel or a box magazine. Most have a safety catch located near the trigger guard.
Self loading firearms

Self loading firearms are available in a large variety of rifle calibres and in shotgun gauges. They are usually identifiable by a small cocking handle which usually protrudes to the right-hand side of the breech bolt. They may be fitted with box or tubular magazines and can vary greatly in ammunition capacity.

Self loading firearms are also referred to as semi automatic firearms as each press of the trigger cycles the action automatically. These firearms will operate in one of the following manners: blowback, gas operated or recoil operated.
Fully automatic

Most fully automatic weapons take the form of general purpose machine guns fed from either a cloth or disintegrating link belt, or sub machine guns of varying size and styles. They usually have a large capacity box or drum magazine. Most have a select fire switch to allow either semi automatic or full automatic fire. Some military rifles have selective fire capacity.
Single shot rifles

[cont'd]
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Brian Ross
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #27 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:54pm
 
Quote:
Single shot rifles do not have a magazine. Bolt or lever action single shot rifles are manually loaded through the ejection port and into the chamber.

Firearms categories
Category      Description
A1      an air rifle
A2.1      a single shot rim fire rifle
A2.2      a repeating rim fire rifle
A3.1      a single shot shotgun
A3.2      a double barrel shotgun
A3.3      a repeating shotgun (bolt action)
A4.1      a combination firearm made up of a shotgun and a rifle each of which would individually be of category A
A4.2      a rifle combination made up of rifles each of which would individually be of category A

Category B
Category      Description
B1      a muzzle loading firearm (except a handgun)
B2.1      a single shot centre fire rifle
B2.2      a double barrel centre fire rifle
B2.3      a repeating centre fire rifle
B2.4      a repeating shotgun (lever action) with a magazine capacity of no more than 5 rounds
B3.1      a combination firearm, not of category C or D, made up of a shotgun and a rifle at least one of which would individually be of category B
B3.2      a rifle combination, not of category C or D, made up of rifles at least one of which would individually be of category B

Genuine need test for Category B: the applicant is required to satisfy the Commissioner that a firearm of category A would be inadequate or unsuitable for the purpose for which the firearm is required.

Category C
Category      Description
C1      a self loading rim fire rifle with a magazine capacity no more than 10 rounds
C2      a self loading shotgun with a magazine capacity no more than 5 rounds
C3      a pump action shotgun with a magazine capacity no more than 5 rounds
C4.1      a combination firearm, not of category D, made up of a shotgun and a rifle at least one of which would individually be of category C
C4.2      a rifle combination, not of category D, made up of rifles at least one of which would individually be of category C

Category E
Category      Description
E1      a cannon
E3      a line thrower
E4      a tranquilliser
E5      a paintball gun
E6      any firearm that is not of sub-category E1, E2, E3, E4 or E5, or category A, B, C, D, or H
Category H
Category      Description
H1      a handgun (including an air pistol)
H2      an underwater explosive device
Genuine need test for Category H:

    The applicant is required to satisfy the Commissioner that a firearm of category A, B, or C would be inadequate or unsuitable for the purpose for which the firearm is required.
    A person does not have a genuine need to acquire or possess a firearm of category H because it is required for:
    (a) hunting,
    (b) recreational shooting, other than by a person described in paragraph under the heading “Restrictions for category H”, and for a purpose described in that paragraph; or
    (c) destroying stock or vermin.

[Source]

Blackpowder firearms would be classified as being a Category E6 Firearm.

Wikipedia however makes the point that:

Quote:
Certain antique firearms (generally muzzle loading black powder flintlock firearms manufactured before 1 January 1901) can in some states be legally held without a licence.[23] In other states they are subject to the same requirements as modern firearms.[24] All single-shot muzzleloading firearms manufactured before 1 January 1901 are considered antique firearms. Four states require licences for antique percussion revolvers and cartridge repeating firearms, but in Queensland and Victoria a person may possess such a firearm without a licence, so long as the firearm is registered (percussion revolvers require a licence in Victoria).

[[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia#Firearms_categories]Source[url]]


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« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:01am by Brian Ross »  

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mortdooley
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #28 - Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:31am
 
rhino wrote on Nov 22nd, 2018 at 11:47pm:
A boomerang is not classed as a firearm Mort, learn the difference. Never been a mass school shooting in Australia Mort, how many in your country just the last year. Get a grip man.



And neither is a pellet gun, that was my point!
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rhino
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Re: Australia's NRA-inspired gun lobby
Reply #29 - Nov 23rd, 2018 at 12:36am
 
No Mort, pellet guns are guns. They fire projectiles capable of injury. They havent always been banned in Australia, I seem to remember them mainly being used for target practise on stray cats. I think we can live without them.
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