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Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St (Read 11458 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #120 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 8:54pm
 
moses wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 6:04pm:



Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  A link that goes no where?  How unusual for you, Moses, hey?

Until you produce evidence that I have "knowingly told an untruth", you are barking at the moon.   Run along, I hear the Pastor calling you back to Sunday School.  He wants to use you again, it seems.   How typical, hey of Christian Clergy to want to use children for their pleasure.  Tsk, tsk.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #121 - Nov 27th, 2018 at 11:08pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 8:49am:
Frank wrote on Nov 26th, 2018 at 9:31pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 26th, 2018 at 7:10pm:
moses wrote on Nov 26th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
brian ross is a deliberate liar on this debate site Gandalf.



And you are deliberately racist and engage in blatant hatemongering - which I find personally offensive... but I don't personally attack you.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTpkdGHWoAAjcDb.jpg


If you actually thought about what I said Frank, you'll see that I was making exactly the same point Fry makes. That I am not using my being offended as some license to engage in ad hominem's or anything else. As opposed to moses who seems to be saying 'because Brian lies, and since lying offends me - therefore I have a license to personally abuse Brian'.

You of course abuse Brian in every single reply to him. What is your excuse?


I am trying to make him say he is 'offended' so then I can send him the Fry meme and laugh at him.  What did you think??

(don't need an apostrophe for plurals. Typo, I know but if Bwian had spotted it you would have copped some eye rolling as well. Lucky you.)


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polite_gandalf
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #122 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:31pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
That's a cop-out, and you've ignored the rest of my post. I'll assume then that you're not interested in discussing solutions how to stop the attacks

I provided a link, seems you ignored that as well, it was the "
Religion of Islam.com
"

https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/10256/core-values-of-islam/


Firstly, if you really want to engage constructively and civilly with me on real solutions, I suggest you don't be deliberately insulting by saying that we all start our children't Islamic education by showing them youtube videos of killings. That sort of thing tends to put a dampener on any goodwill that might have existed.

Secondly, the link you gave me put those so called "core Islamic values" way down the page below far more important things that I tried to point out, under the heading "Core of Islamic Law". Clearly they were referring to values related to actual laws of an actual government within a theoretical Islamic state. Very different to the core of Islamic beliefs that are taught to all muslims, irrespective of whether they are under an actual Islamic state or not.


Quote:
Here's a good solution for potential attackers, would you support this, or would you oppose it? ....

Citizenship crackdown on Aussie extremists
5:23pm Nov 22, 2018

Australian-born terrorists could soon be stripped of their citizenship and kicked out of the country far more easily, under sweeping new powers to be debated in parliament before Christmas.

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/11/22/09/57/aussie-extremists-could-lose-citizensh...

Prime Minister Scott Morrison will introduce new laws within weeks aimed at revoking citizenship from dual nationals convicted of terror offences, regardless of the length of their sentence.
[/quote]

Its a little difficult to "oppose" the idea of ridding our nation of dangerous terrorists. However this is not a solution at all, its crass politicking designed only to win votes and which has about zero practical value.

Presumably the idea behind it is once they are stripped of Aussie citizenship, they can then be deported. But think about it, do you think thats actually going to happen? For this to be possible you need to things - 1. they have to be eligible for residency in another country - and no having dual citizenship doesn't necessarily make this so. And 2. That country has to accept them in even if they are eligible. And what do you think the chances of another country allowing convicted terrorists to live there? Would we do it? Hi Australia, this is Lebanon - there's this guy trying to blow up everything here - he was dual Lebanese/Australian citizen, but he's no longer Lebanese, you know, because terrorists are not welcome here...  so if you wouldn't mind letting him live there thanks... - I'm pretty sure you would be leading the howl of outrage against such a proposal yes?

So.. we strip them of citizenship, and its a pretty safe bet most of them won't be accepted into any other country. What then? There are two options left: 1. we keep them on the streets or put them in Aussie gaols - if so, what is the point of removing their citizenship? Nothing. or 2. we put them in permanent immigration detention - expensive, but more importantly legally questionable. You then have to consider the vulnerability such a regime has to legal challenge, and with that the very real risk that they will be released at any time.

Finally, another thought just occurred to me: Morrison says this applies to convicted terrorists right? Wait, aren't these guys sent to gaol? Whats the point then? They can no longer vote?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #123 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:52pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
That's a cop-out, and you've ignored the rest of my post. I'll assume then that you're not interested in discussing solutions how to stop the attacks

I provided a link, seems you ignored that as well, it was the "
Religion of Islam.com
"

https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/10256/core-values-of-islam/


Firstly, if you really want to engage constructively and civilly with me on real solutions, I suggest you don't be deliberately insulting by saying that we all start our children't Islamic education by showing them youtube videos of killings. That sort of thing tends to put a dampener on any goodwill that might have existed.

Secondly, the link you gave me put those so called "core Islamic values" way down the page below far more important things that I tried to point out, under the heading "Core of Islamic Law". Clearly they were referring to values related to actual laws of an actual government within a theoretical Islamic state. Very different to the core of Islamic beliefs that are taught to all muslims, irrespective of whether they are under an actual Islamic state or not.


Quote:
Here's a good solution for potential attackers, would you support this, or would you oppose it? ....

Citizenship crackdown on Aussie extremists
5:23pm Nov 22, 2018

Australian-born terrorists could soon be stripped of their citizenship and kicked out of the country far more easily, under sweeping new powers to be debated in parliament before Christmas.

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/11/22/09/57/aussie-extremists-could-lose-citizensh...

Prime Minister Scott Morrison will introduce new laws within weeks aimed at revoking citizenship from dual nationals convicted of terror offences, regardless of the length of their sentence.


[/quote]
Morrison's comment was aimed at dual citizens. If they have Lebanese citizenship it's illegal for Lebanon not to take them back. When they lose oz citizenship they lose the dole and facing indefinite offshore detention they will be forced back.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #124 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:52pm
 
Grin
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Frank
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #125 - Nov 28th, 2018 at 4:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
That's a cop-out, and you've ignored the rest of my post. I'll assume then that you're not interested in discussing solutions how to stop the attacks

I provided a link, seems you ignored that as well, it was the "
Religion of Islam.com
"

https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/10256/core-values-of-islam/


Firstly, if you really want to engage constructively and civilly with me on real solutions, I suggest you don't be deliberately insulting by saying that we all start our children't Islamic education by showing them youtube videos of killings. That sort of thing tends to put a dampener on any goodwill that might have existed.

Secondly, the link you gave me put those so called "core Islamic values" way down the page below far more important things that I tried to point out, under the heading "Core of Islamic Law". Clearly they were referring to values related to actual laws of an actual government within a theoretical Islamic state. Very different to the core of Islamic beliefs that are taught to all muslims, irrespective of whether they are under an actual Islamic state or not.


Quote:
Here's a good solution for potential attackers, would you support this, or would you oppose it? ....

Citizenship crackdown on Aussie extremists
5:23pm Nov 22, 2018

Australian-born terrorists could soon be stripped of their citizenship and kicked out of the country far more easily, under sweeping new powers to be debated in parliament before Christmas.

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/11/22/09/57/aussie-extremists-could-lose-citizensh...

Prime Minister Scott Morrison will introduce new laws within weeks aimed at revoking citizenship from dual nationals convicted of terror offences, regardless of the length of their sentence.


Its a little difficult to "oppose" the idea of ridding our nation of dangerous terrorists. However this is not a solution at all, its crass politicking designed only to win votes and which has about zero practical value.

Presumably the idea behind it is once they are stripped of Aussie citizenship, they can then be deported. But think about it, do you think thats actually going to happen? For this to be possible you need to things - 1. they have to be eligible for residency in another country - and no having dual citizenship doesn't necessarily make this so. And 2. That country has to accept them in even if they are eligible. And what do you think the chances of another country allowing convicted terrorists to live there? Would we do it? Hi Australia, this is Lebanon - there's this guy trying to blow up everything here - he was dual Lebanese/Australian citizen, but he's no longer Lebanese, you know, because terrorists are not welcome here...  so if you wouldn't mind letting him live there thanks... - I'm pretty sure you would be leading the howl of outrage against such a proposal yes?

So.. we strip them of citizenship, and its a pretty safe bet most of them won't be accepted into any other country. What then? There are two options left: 1. we keep them on the streets or put them in Aussie gaols - if so, what is the point of removing their citizenship? Nothing. or 2. we put them in permanent immigration detention - expensive, but more importantly legally questionable. You then have to consider the vulnerability such a regime has to legal challenge, and with that the very real risk that they will be released at any time.

Finally, another thought just occurred to me: Morrison says this applies to convicted terrorists right? Wait, aren't these guys sent to gaol? Whats the point then? They can no longer vote?
[/quote]
Islamic State will take them.

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Frank
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #126 - Dec 1st, 2018 at 8:02pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 28th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 27th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
That's a cop-out, and you've ignored the rest of my post. I'll assume then that you're not interested in discussing solutions how to stop the attacks

I provided a link, seems you ignored that as well, it was the "
Religion of Islam.com
"

https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/10256/core-values-of-islam/


Firstly, if you really want to engage constructively and civilly with me on real solutions, I suggest you don't be deliberately insulting by saying that we all start our children't Islamic education by showing them youtube videos of killings. That sort of thing tends to put a dampener on any goodwill that might have existed.

Secondly, the link you gave me put those so called "core Islamic values" way down the page below far more important things that I tried to point out, under the heading "Core of Islamic Law". Clearly they were referring to values related to actual laws of an actual government within a theoretical Islamic state. Very different to the core of Islamic beliefs that are taught to all muslims, irrespective of whether they are under an actual Islamic state or not.


Quote:
Here's a good solution for potential attackers, would you support this, or would you oppose it? ....

Citizenship crackdown on Aussie extremists
5:23pm Nov 22, 2018

Australian-born terrorists could soon be stripped of their citizenship and kicked out of the country far more easily, under sweeping new powers to be debated in parliament before Christmas.

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/11/22/09/57/aussie-extremists-could-lose-citizensh...

Prime Minister Scott Morrison will introduce new laws within weeks aimed at revoking citizenship from dual nationals convicted of terror offences, regardless of the length of their sentence.


Its a little difficult to "oppose" the idea of ridding our nation of dangerous terrorists. However this is not a solution at all, its crass politicking designed only to win votes and which has about zero practical value.

Presumably the idea behind it is once they are stripped of Aussie citizenship, they can then be deported. But think about it, do you think thats actually going to happen? For this to be possible you need to things - 1. they have to be eligible for residency in another country - and no having dual citizenship doesn't necessarily make this so. And 2. That country has to accept them in even if they are eligible. And what do you think the chances of another country allowing convicted terrorists to live there? Would we do it? Hi Australia, this is Lebanon - there's this guy trying to blow up everything here - he was dual Lebanese/Australian citizen, but he's no longer Lebanese, you know, because terrorists are not welcome here...  so if you wouldn't mind letting him live there thanks... - I'm pretty sure you would be leading the howl of outrage against such a proposal yes?

So.. we strip them of citizenship, and its a pretty safe bet most of them won't be accepted into any other country. What then? There are two options left: 1. we keep them on the streets or put them in Aussie gaols - if so, what is the point of removing their citizenship? Nothing. or 2. we put them in permanent immigration detention - expensive, but more importantly legally questionable. You then have to consider the vulnerability such a regime has to legal challenge, and with that the very real risk that they will be released at any time.

Finally, another thought just occurred to me: Morrison says this applies to convicted terrorists right? Wait, aren't these guys sent to gaol? Whats the point then? They can no longer vote?
[/quote]


The sentiment is to get rid of the toxic Islamist bastards.

Your sentiment and instinct is to hang on to them as long as possible and by any means possible.  You are the voice of not getting rid of the toxic bastards. That's why you are an untrustworthy Islamist. You are on their side, on the side of the revolting Muslims against the West. You are not on the West's side because you identify with the jihadists much, much more than with the victims of the jihadists.

You are cowardly, duplicitous, untrustworthy.  Typical Muslim 'progressive. You are of another word, of another value system.



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polite_gandalf
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #127 - Dec 7th, 2018 at 1:58pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 1st, 2018 at 8:02pm:
The sentiment is to get rid of the toxic Islamist bastards.

Your sentiment and instinct is to hang on to them as long as possible and by any means possible.  You are the voice of not getting rid of the toxic bastards. That's why you are an untrustworthy Islamist. You are on their side, on the side of the revolting Muslims against the West. You are not on the West's side because you identify with the jihadists much, much more than with the victims of the jihadists.


thats just meaningless ranting Frank that addresses precisely nothing.

Like I said, no sane person could oppose the idea of getting rid of convicted criminals who pose a terrorist threat. But what can actually be done in practice? I gave considered arguments for why stripping citizenship is pretty useless in terms of making our streets safer. If you can offer a reasonable refutation to them, then I'd be interested to hear them.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Frank
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #128 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 5:31pm
 
Punish all who were aware of the bastards but did not report them. You can't be a jihadist in isolation. They have families, friends, co-religionists at the same mosques. Muslim communities are tightly knit, watching each other and knowing about each other.

Pretending that they are somehow cosmopolitan individualists and islands unrelated to other Muslims is a fantastic lie.

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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #129 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 6:45pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 5:31pm:
Punish


elaborate please?

And this time don't answer by ranting on about how guilty they are, but rather try and offer a practical solution vis the deportation proposal and the challenges to that I have pointed out before.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Frank
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #130 - Dec 9th, 2018 at 7:32pm
 
Punish them as traitors and enablers of traitors. That is what they are.  Throw them all out if they are foreign citizens, strip them of citizenship if they are not born here, strip them of rights and jail them if they are citizens.

Muslims have gotten away with jihad and disloyalty for far too long. Make jihad a treasonous crime and treat all who participate or enable it as traitors. Execute convicted jihadists. Execute their handlers. They want to kill us. The least we can do is apply their own standards to them.




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polite_gandalf
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Re: Brilliant summary of muslim sentiment re Bourke St
Reply #131 - Dec 10th, 2018 at 8:04am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 9th, 2018 at 7:32pm:
The least we can do is apply their own standards to them.


Because we're morally superior to them?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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