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police hand to hand combat training (Read 1584 times)
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #15 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 12:10pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.



What a load of unadulterated nonsense. When, pray tell, have you in your infinite experience in unarmed combat, ever 'disarmed' someone with a knife? And for your information police training does indeed provide a certain basic level of DEFENSIVE unarmed combat, but I hasten to add that police officers are not Special Forces, they have the public to protect as well as themselves and going toe to toe with a lunatic with a knife is not about street fighting its about compliance as quickly as possible, one way or another, to stop the risk.
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #16 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 12:57pm
 
I trained in martial arts for 18 years

I fought competitively for 6 of those years.

We regularly practiced hand to hand knife fighting and self defence against knife attacks.

I was club champion, undefeated, for 8 years in knife fighting.

I woukd not have attempted to disarm a madman.
Two reasons
Firstly , you have no idea what he is going to do.
We trained and trained and trained some more, but generally it was the inexperienced fighters that got past our defences by doing something so stupid that it was not expected. He would not fight or use the weapon as it should or logically be used.
The attack this terrorist used was so poor it was almost laughable.
No sane or competent person attacks with downward attacks like that, it leaves him open to attack.
In most knifings, the attacker comes at you fast and hard stabbing continually at the primary body mass, stomach, chest etc, it's over before it began and the only strategy is to back off and distance yourself until you can effectively defend.
Go for the legs, kick the knees, avoid closing.

The second.
How many weapons did he have?
We know now he had the one, but what if he had 2 or 3 secreted about his body.
You might get the first one but not see the second until it was sticking out of your belly.
He might have had other weapons, they just didn't know.

The cops, in my opinion, did a reasonable job
Although a trunchon blow delivers at the nutcases hand woukd have effectively disarmed him, but we then have reason two to consider.

In the end, the cop did what he was trained to do and the only sensible thing.
He shot the nutcase.

He has nothing to answer for and any weekend warrior who thinks it could have been done differently obviously has never had a knife fight.
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #17 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:27pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 11:47am:
The cops tried to hit him hard with batons but they kept missing.

Seriously,... they didn't even look like they were trying in my opinion!
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #18 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:29pm
 
Term Dog wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 11:28am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.



The dumbest comment on the internet;



"Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training?"


Your opinion is worse than useless.

It is relatively straightforward: just ask any martial arts instructor.

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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #19 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:32pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 11:06am:
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 10:55am:
The perpertrator has a knife, so hand to hand combat in this case is too risky.   I remember from my self defence class days, is that human hands are very delicate, its got too many joints / weak point, and are evolved to use tools rathers than direct combat.   

When facing someone with a knife, the police at least should have the batton or mace, or even guns or tazers.  Talking about which, the two officers did not seemed to have one.  I thought tazers are standard nowadays. 


Even if they had tazers they didn't have time to pull it out. They were too busy dodging stabs. It was a pretty intense few moments.

They should have had the tazers out from the start!

That is a lack of training for the situation...
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #20 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:36pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 10:55am:
If it were isreal they would have disarmed him. Their police and tactical squads are trained in hand to hand but their prisoners aren't treated like we treat ours. Prison over there is not a holiday camp like it is here.

Our police are just revenue raisers and wouldn't know conflict untill it's to late....that's why they shot him.


You could even say that what looked like an untrained approach was infact all about making it look like they had no option but to use lethal force for the cameras.

Strategically brilliant when you think about it.
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #21 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:40pm
 
Term Dog wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 11:28am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.



The dumbest comment on the internet;



"Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training?"


Your opinion is worse than useless.


Thanks. However I was taught karate as a kid, and defending against a knife attack was about the first manuevre I learned. It really is surprisingly easy, and more than one way to do it.

Look I only brought it up because when I saw the video and saw the cop go toe to toe with him, it presented the perfect opportunity to perform a very simple manuevre, with extremely low risk. In fact it looks like he initially tried to do that, but then thought 'bugger it - I'll bail out" - at which point, it needs to be said, the attacker was far more dangerous than if he had tried to disarm him when he had the chance.
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #22 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 3:57pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
Term Dog wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 11:28am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.



The dumbest comment on the internet;



"Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training?"


Your opinion is worse than useless.


Thanks. However I was taught karate as a kid, and defending against a knife attack was about the first manuevre I learned. It really is surprisingly easy, and more than one way to do it.

Look I only brought it up because when I saw the video and saw the cop go toe to toe with him, it presented the perfect opportunity to perform a very simple manuevre, with extremely low risk. In fact it looks like he initially tried to do that, but then thought 'bugger it - I'll bail out" - at which point, it needs to be said, the attacker was far more dangerous than if he had tried to disarm him when he had the chance.



Plz stop talking.


Anyone else wondering, knife disarms are bullshit.


The poster who "did karate as a kid" is objectively  clueless on the topic.
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #23 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 4:39pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.


What if this muslim was wearing an explosive vest like numerous muslims when doing Jihad, would hand to hand combat be effective?

The only problem i have with police and this incident was why did they take so long to shoot him, were they afraid Dickhead Dan and other idiot leftists would accuse them of racism?

If you attack a cop with a knife you should expect them to shoot you.
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #24 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 4:40pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.


Gandalf you really are deluding yourself....!

Let’s put it this way have you got a 12 year old daughter, if not niece or whatever just think of a 12 year old girl.

If she attacks you with bare hands as viciously as she can, not holding anything back trying to damage you there should be no problem with you subduing her right, you might get a scratch or two but not a big deal for a grown man most of the time to subdue an adolescent girl or even boy for that matter.

Now put a kitchen knife in her hand and let her attack you in the same manner, she’s trying to kill you, the outcome is not so sure now is it ? especially if she niks a vital part.

On top of all that there’s also the adrenalin dump and your reaction to it, tunnel vision etc.

I once asked my karate instructor about facing someone with a knife and he was good, he could take your head off with one punch and he was hard to hit in return, basically he said he would run if he could, if not take his jumper or coat of wrap it around his hand and try to fend of the knife while trying to take his head off.



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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #25 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 5:43pm
 
Valkie wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
I trained in martial arts for 18 years

I fought competitively for 6 of those years.

We regularly practiced hand to hand knife fighting and self defence against knife attacks.

I was club champion, undefeated, for 8 years in knife fighting.

I woukd not have attempted to disarm a madman.
Two reasons
Firstly , you have no idea what he is going to do.
We trained and trained and trained some more, but generally it was the inexperienced fighters that got past our defences by doing something so stupid that it was not expected. He would not fight or use the weapon as it should or logically be used.
The attack this terrorist used was so poor it was almost laughable.
No sane or competent person attacks with downward attacks like that, it leaves him open to attack.
In most knifings, the attacker comes at you fast and hard stabbing continually at the primary body mass, stomach, chest etc, it's over before it began and the only strategy is to back off and distance yourself until you can effectively defend.
Go for the legs, kick the knees, avoid closing.

The second.
How many weapons did he have?
We know now he had the one, but what if he had 2 or 3 secreted about his body.
You might get the first one but not see the second until it was sticking out of your belly.
He might have had other weapons, they just didn't know.

The cops, in my opinion, did a reasonable job
Although a trunchon blow delivers at the nutcases hand woukd have effectively disarmed him, but we then have reason two to consider.

In the end, the cop did what he was trained to do and the only sensible thing.
He shot the nutcase.

He has nothing to answer for and any weekend warrior who thinks it could have been done differently obviously has never had a knife fight.



Valkie is correct,
actually you missed an important tip which I can tell everyone.
One of the best defenses against a knife is to hold up a chair
so that the 4 legs of the chair get in the way of the attacker.

The police batons would have been adequate in the hands
of a Bruce Lee type expert but they were just new cops.

Also - a madman swinging a knife around is very scary -
one cut to an artery and you're dead!
The cops should really have just shot him instantly &
not played around as they did.
It could have ended up as a dead policeman tragedy.
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #26 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:41pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 5:43pm:
Valkie wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
I trained in martial arts for 18 years

I fought competitively for 6 of those years.

We regularly practiced hand to hand knife fighting and self defence against knife attacks.

I was club champion, undefeated, for 8 years in knife fighting.

I woukd not have attempted to disarm a madman.
Two reasons
Firstly , you have no idea what he is going to do.
We trained and trained and trained some more, but generally it was the inexperienced fighters that got past our defences by doing something so stupid that it was not expected. He would not fight or use the weapon as it should or logically be used.
The attack this terrorist used was so poor it was almost laughable.
No sane or competent person attacks with downward attacks like that, it leaves him open to attack.
In most knifings, the attacker comes at you fast and hard stabbing continually at the primary body mass, stomach, chest etc, it's over before it began and the only strategy is to back off and distance yourself until you can effectively defend.
Go for the legs, kick the knees, avoid closing.

The second.
How many weapons did he have?
We know now he had the one, but what if he had 2 or 3 secreted about his body.
You might get the first one but not see the second until it was sticking out of your belly.
He might have had other weapons, they just didn't know.

The cops, in my opinion, did a reasonable job
Although a trunchon blow delivers at the nutcases hand woukd have effectively disarmed him, but we then have reason two to consider.

In the end, the cop did what he was trained to do and the only sensible thing.
He shot the nutcase.

He has nothing to answer for and any weekend warrior who thinks it could have been done differently obviously has never had a knife fight.



Valkie is correct,
actually you missed an important tip which I can tell everyone.
One of the best defenses against a knife is to hold up a chair
so that the 4 legs of the chair get in the way of the attacker.

The police batons would have been adequate in the hands
of a Bruce Lee type expert but they were just new cops.

Also - a madman swinging a knife around is very scary -
one cut to an artery and you're dead!
The cops should really have just shot him instantly &
not played around as they did.
It could have ended up as a dead policeman tragedy
.

I'm thinking they were winning public sentiment by not acting too quickly and letting the situation play out for the cameras!
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #27 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:44pm
 
Term Dog wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 3:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
Term Dog wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 11:28am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.



The dumbest comment on the internet;



"Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training?"


Your opinion is worse than useless.


Thanks. However I was taught karate as a kid, and defending against a knife attack was about the first manuevre I learned. It really is surprisingly easy, and more than one way to do it.

Look I only brought it up because when I saw the video and saw the cop go toe to toe with him, it presented the perfect opportunity to perform a very simple manuevre, with extremely low risk. In fact it looks like he initially tried to do that, but then thought 'bugger it - I'll bail out" - at which point, it needs to be said, the attacker was far more dangerous than if he had tried to disarm him when he had the chance.



Plz stop talking.


Anyone else wondering, knife disarms are bullshit.


The poster who "did karate as a kid" is objectively  clueless on the topic.

Knife disarms aren't bullshit: you just have to be very well trained!


NOT ALL COPS ARE THE SAME YA KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #28 - Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:47pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 1:40pm:
Term Dog wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 11:28am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2018 at 8:28am:
OK, I'm probably setting myself up for a whole heap of trolling here but here goes...

So I'm watching again the footage of the jihadi lunging at police on Bourke St. Then I notice at least on one occasion one officer actually goes toe to toe, hand to hand. He appears to make an attempt to grab the arm that was holding the knife. But then he stumbles back and resumes pointing his gun at him.

Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training? Yet the officer I saw looked like he had no idea. Yes yes, I get the 'heat of the moment' thing, but really, this should be something police can do.

And no, I'm not rootin for the terrorists - in this case lives that were at real risk with him dancing around and police seemingly clueless - would have been spared less risk if he had been disarmed at the opportune time.



The dumbest comment on the internet;



"Disarming someone with a knife is relatively straightforward for anyone with even the most basic hand to hand combat training. There are several different ways it can be done. I would have thought police these days get that training?"


Your opinion is worse than useless.


Thanks. However I was taught karate as a kid, and defending against a knife attack was about the first manuevre I learned. It really is surprisingly easy, and more than one way to do it.

Look I only brought it up because when I saw the video and saw the cop go toe to toe with him, it presented the perfect opportunity to perform a very simple manuevre, with extremely low risk. In fact it looks like he initially tried to do that, but then thought 'bugger it - I'll bail out" - at which point, it needs to be said, the attacker was far more dangerous than if he had tried to disarm him when he had the chance.

WHAT STOPPED HIM THEN? IT CAN ONLY BE THE REALITY OF ADRENALIN DUMP!!

HENCE THE NEED FOR SUPERIOR TRAINING - NOT EVERYONE CAN DO THESE THINGS WIHTOUT HESITATION!!!

IT'S A REAL SKILL BUT SOME PEOPLE CAN DO AMAZING THINGS!
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Re: police hand to hand combat training
Reply #29 - Nov 17th, 2018 at 6:53pm
 
Police are not trained for day-to-day combat operations - their focus is to avoid such things by being a presence....  the cost of training to the degree you specify is astronomical, and even police weapons training is severely limited, to a few rounds a year at a stationary target.
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