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Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service. (Read 3963 times)
cods
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #30 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:39pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:29pm:
Term Dog wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 8:18am:
He went to another service without Merke/ Macron. Prolly sending a message to them.

The guy is a genius. Why stand next to traitors at a war memorial service.


It is not about the leaders it is about those who sacrificed their lives for their nation....Your defence of Trump makes him look even more petty and self absorbed!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



this isnt about trump... its about what Macron said..


you agree with his words I take it!
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #31 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:42pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
cods wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 12:56pm:
I do not see a lot of difference between Nationalism and Patriotism  to be honest   those who take everything to extreme   will always do so no matter what your spout..


I like the bit about Frances Values... lol does that  include... surrender...... Angry Angry Angry Angry


There is a great difference.  Patriotism is the love on one's country in face of adversity and danger.   To resist enemy of state, and not give in to the principal that we hold. 

We build our society on fairness, and equality regardless of gender, race or sexual orientation.  Our governance is democracy, with separation of religion and state. 

After the Bourke street attack, there are some of people here, want to retaliate through some form of mob justice, they also want to send the families of the perpertrators back even though they may well be Australian citizens and innocent. 

And anyone who disagree with that, they call them traitors.  And they justify their own opinion as 'patriotism.'.  Some even take quotes from bibles and Koran! 

In reality is that instead of being brave, to hold on to the basic principals of human right and natural justices - things that our forefathers had fought and died for.  They just give everything up to the terrorist's goal.   That is not patriotism.




patriotism
/ˈpeɪtrɪətɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
the quality of being patriotic; vigorous support for one's country.
"a highly decorated officer of unquestionable integrity and patriotism"
synonyms:      nationalism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism; More




the definition looks pretty much the same to me......


you and Macron are talking about extremism.....

and nothing but nothing will ever stop people who go too far....

and every country has them......



Nationalism is extremism.

Here's another good explanation:

“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #32 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:53pm
 
cods wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:39pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:29pm:
Term Dog wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 8:18am:
He went to another service without Merke/ Macron. Prolly sending a message to them.

The guy is a genius. Why stand next to traitors at a war memorial service.


It is not about the leaders it is about those who sacrificed their lives for their nation....Your defence of Trump makes him look even more petty and self absorbed!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



this isnt about trump... its about what Macron said..


you agree with his words I take it!


I certainly agree with him.

“Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism”

“Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism by saying: ‘Our interest first. Who cares about the others?’”

“... giving into the fascination for withdrawal, isolationism, violence and domination would be a grave error that future generations would very rightly make us responsible for.”

"I’m a strong believer in cooperation between the different peoples, and I’m a strong believer of the fact that this cooperation is good for everybody, where the nationalists are sometimes much more based on a unilateral approach and the law of the strongest, which is not my case.”
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issuevoter
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #33 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:57pm
 
Whether Macron is sincere is not something I can comment on, but his idea of a European Military is interesting, as opposed to the individual national organisation in the EU. When I say interesting, I mean it should be used to get the US out of Europe. And it would be interesting to see how they stood up to European border incursions, and Russia. My guess is that the EU Command would collapse in squabbles. Its one thing for the peace movement to feel international, it's quite another for soldiers. In the past, societies have been unified by common language and common enemies. The EU does not have the former, and it does not believe it has the latter.
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Term Dog
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #34 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:57pm
 
The concept of nations, bad thing these days?
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Bias_2012
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #35 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:02pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
There is a great difference.  Patriotism is the love on one's country in face of adversity and danger.   To resist enemy of state, and not give in to the principal that we hold.



So therefore Muslims in Australia wouldn't be patriotic to Australia when our govt sends our military to fight Muslims in other countries. They hold up signs saying "Behead those who hate muslims", "Islam doesn't include democracy", "We will take over the world"

What chance has the govt got of pacifying those belligerents among us, for all time? or do you have a magical formula?
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #36 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:09pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:02pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
There is a great difference.  Patriotism is the love on one's country in face of adversity and danger.   To resist enemy of state, and not give in to the principal that we hold.



So therefore Muslims in Australia wouldn't be patriotic to Australia when our govt sends our military to fight Muslims in other countries. They hold up signs saying "Behead those who hate muslims", "Islam doesn't include democracy", "We will take over the world"

What chance has the govt got of pacifying those belligerents among us, for all time? or do you have a magical formula?   


"So therefore Muslims in Australia wouldn't be patriotic to Australia ..."

Some Muslims.

A very small minority, though.

Moreover, the same can be said for any other group in this country.

Some.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #37 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:11pm
 
People like Macron are on the way out in the western world. I don't see how looking after ones country first is such a bad thing. That's what most countries do. It's people like him who have swamped our countries with non integrating migrants. He is the real enemy.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #38 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:15pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
People like Macron are on the way out in the western world. I don't see how looking after ones country first is such a bad thing. That's what most countries do. It's people like him who have swamped our countries with non integrating migrants. He is the real enemy.


What did he say, exactly?

I'm curious.
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Term Dog
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #39 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:16pm
 
Honestly I want to hear the position of those that have a problem with the right of nations to exist and write their own laws and control who comes  in when and how many.

If are are really that different in our views in the West i am concerned.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #40 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:20pm
 
Term Dog wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:16pm:
Honestly I want to hear the position of those that have a problem with the right of nations to exist and write their own laws and control who comes  in when and how many.

If are are really that different in our views in the West i am concerned.


Who are those people?

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tickleandrose
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #41 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:22pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:02pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
There is a great difference.  Patriotism is the love on one's country in face of adversity and danger.   To resist enemy of state, and not give in to the principal that we hold.



So therefore Muslims in Australia wouldn't be patriotic to Australia when our govt sends our military to fight Muslims in other countries. They hold up signs saying "Behead those who hate muslims", "Islam doesn't include democracy", "We will take over the world"

What chance has the govt got of pacifying those belligerents among us, for all time? or do you have a magical formula?   


Again, you are giving into the propaganda of our extreme nationalists, and the terrorists.   They wanted you to believe that Islam does not include democracy.  But its not true.  By far, the majority of our muslim citizens are law abiding people.  Even the maverick senator from QLD - Bob Katter helped to extend the stay of a muslim religious leader for his community, and he called his muslim community good folks. 

The minute you give into the terrorist idea that its muslims vs non muslims, then the terrorist would be happy with a smirk, and they would have achieved their goal. 

My friend, the terrorist.. they WANT a war.  They WANT us to hate our own neighbours.  They are really really scared that the muslims in the West would embrace democracy, and suddenly their own basis of religious war would fall into bits and pieces.   I do not know how you and the others do not see that.  What they fear the most is the simple act of us being friend with our fellow muslim Australians. 
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #42 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:35pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:15pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
People like Macron are on the way out in the western world. I don't see how looking after ones country first is such a bad thing. That's what most countries do. It's people like him who have swamped our countries with non integrating migrants. He is the real enemy.


What did he say, exactly?

I'm curious.

The millions of soldiers who died in the Great War fought to defend the “universal values” of France, he said, and to reject the “selfishness of nations only looking after their own interests.


What a load of crap.
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cods
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #43 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:35pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:42pm:
cods wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:38pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
cods wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 12:56pm:
I do not see a lot of difference between Nationalism and Patriotism  to be honest   those who take everything to extreme   will always do so no matter what your spout..


I like the bit about Frances Values... lol does that  include... surrender...... Angry Angry Angry Angry


There is a great difference.  Patriotism is the love on one's country in face of adversity and danger.   To resist enemy of state, and not give in to the principal that we hold. 

We build our society on fairness, and equality regardless of gender, race or sexual orientation.  Our governance is democracy, with separation of religion and state. 

After the Bourke street attack, there are some of people here, want to retaliate through some form of mob justice, they also want to send the families of the perpertrators back even though they may well be Australian citizens and innocent. 

And anyone who disagree with that, they call them traitors.  And they justify their own opinion as 'patriotism.'.  Some even take quotes from bibles and Koran! 

In reality is that instead of being brave, to hold on to the basic principals of human right and natural justices - things that our forefathers had fought and died for.  They just give everything up to the terrorist's goal.   That is not patriotism.




patriotism
/ˈpeɪtrɪətɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
the quality of being patriotic; vigorous support for one's country.
"a highly decorated officer of unquestionable integrity and patriotism"
synonyms:      nationalism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism; More




the definition looks pretty much the same to me......


you and Macron are talking about extremism.....

and nothing but nothing will ever stop people who go too far....

and every country has them......



Nationalism is extremism.

Here's another good explanation:

“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”



all in the mind of the beholder...

and do you think it appropriate  bringing this up at a ceremony for the 100 yr anniversary of the signing of the Armistice announcing the end of the

War to end all Wars...

something mercifully none of us experienced....

yes split hairs if it makes you feel better...

I think he would have done all those who gave their lives much better service had he made it all about them
'
like Morrison did...he didnt try to read peoples minds...  100 years ago....he called it as history recorded it.......

99% of people put their country first.....yet its ok to talk about the 1% who dont give poo.. Angry Angry Angry

it doesnt matter what you call it....

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cods
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Re: Macron denounces nationalism at memorial service.
Reply #44 - Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:37pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:15pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Nov 12th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
People like Macron are on the way out in the western world. I don't see how looking after ones country first is such a bad thing. That's what most countries do. It's people like him who have swamped our countries with non integrating migrants. He is the real enemy.


What did he say, exactly?

I'm curious.

The millions of soldiers who died in the Great War fought to defend the “universal values” of France, he said, and to reject the “selfishness of nations only looking after their own interests.


What a load of crap.



I tell you I wouldn t want to depend on the French to come to our aid.. should it be required..
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