Australian Politics Forum - The problem with conservatism

Dnarever

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #30 - Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:53pm

Frank wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:09pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

You are an idiot - the perennial problem with all 'the problem with [your idiotic incomprehension here]' idiots like you.

Run, Forrest, run.

I would say he was very mild in criticism and reasonably accurate if too kind.

You obviously do not relate well to facts that you do not like.

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Bobby.

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #31 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 5:41am

Dnarever wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 8:36pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 7:59pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 7:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 6:20pm:

So we have Sudanese gangs terrorising our Melbourne suburbs
and it's not OK to depict the truth in an image?

What is your solution to the problem of home invasions?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/Sudanese_crime_gangs_002.jpg

The poster does not only refer to Sudanese migrants in Melbourne. It equally applies to 10's of thousands of perfectly peaceful integrated black people across all of Australia.

The poster demonises innocent people while doing absolutely nothing constructive about any problem.

Rubbish - it says we have to catch them and deport them.
It sounds like a solution to me.

What is your solution?

You have no issue with targeting many thousands of innocent people ? Damn lousy solution causing more damage than result.

My solution would be to catch them and deport them or imprison them.
That is the guilty people. No action against the innocent.

Then you agree with the conservative position.

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issuevoter

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #32 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 9:48am

People with conservatives values have no redeeming qualities. Take Winston Churchill, Britain would have been far better off with a progressive leader during WW2. And then there's Kelsey Grammer and Jim Belushi, actors with no talent. Don't get me started on Chinese philosopher Confucius, he was worse than Adolf Hitler.

Vote Progressive, we have your best interests at heart.

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Bias_2012

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #33 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 11:42am

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

You're not very arrogant, are you?

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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #34 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 5:28pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 11:42am:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

You're not very arrogant, are you?

Am I wrong? Tell me how so?

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The Progressive President

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Frank

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #35 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 5:50pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:09pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

You are an idiot - the perennial problem with all 'the problem with [your idiotic incomprehension here]' idiots like you.

Run, Forrest, run.

Thank you, you've just perfectly demonstrated the exact problem with conservatism by how you conducted yourself just now.

It is perfectly possible to be a decent conservative AND think you're an idiot.

You, idiotically, come with statements like the highlighted sentences without ever providing any examples or evidence. YOU equate conservatives with bigots and then you say it's impossible not to equate conservatives bigots. That's how stupid you are, conservatively speaking. You are a bit of a Bwian/gweggy looney.

Run, Fowwest, run.

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Auggie

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #36 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 6:05pm

Frank wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 5:50pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:09pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

You are an idiot - the perennial problem with all 'the problem with [your idiotic incomprehension here]' idiots like you.

Run, Forrest, run.

Thank you, you've just perfectly demonstrated the exact problem with conservatism by how you conducted yourself just now.

It is perfectly possible to be a decent conservative AND think you're an idiot.

You, idiotically, come with statements like the highlighted sentences without ever providing any examples or evidence. YOU equate conservatives with bigots and then you say it's impossible not to equate conservatives bigots. That's how stupid you are, conservatively speaking. You are a bit of a Bwian/gweggy looney.

Run, Fowwest, run.

Run along, run along child now.

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Bias_2012

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #37 - Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 7:58pm

Auggie wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 5:28pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 11:42am:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

You're not very arrogant, are you?

Am I wrong? Tell me how so?

It was the same type of arrogance as yours that got Trump into the White House - "basket of deplorables'" - remember?

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Dnarever

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #38 - Oct 23^rd, 2018 at 7:31pm

Frank wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2018 at 5:50pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:38pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 9:09pm:

Auggie wrote on Oct 21^st, 2018 at 3:02pm:

The problem with conservatism is that it's almost impossible to NOT get into bed with bigots, racists, homophobes and Islamophobes. Even if you try to be decent conservative, most people cannot show restraint, which ultimately forces them to the extreme.

The other problem is that whatever policy the government puts into practice is eventually absorbed by society and becomes socially-acceptable. For e.g. enforcing racial integration in America (via the government's coercive power) has led to a greater acceptance of racial tolerance and anti-racism.

By repealing same-sex marriage, or by significantly reducing immigration, the government would only be giving social sanction to homophobes and xenophobes. The idea is to shape society into being more accepting and tolerant. E.g. forcing religious schools to accept gays will lead to a society that is more accepting of gays and lesbians.

It's impossible to really be a decent conservative now; it's really about whether or not you're a bigot or not a bigot.

You are an idiot - the perennial problem with all 'the problem with [your idiotic incomprehension here]' idiots like you.

Run, Forrest, run.

Thank you, you've just perfectly demonstrated the exact problem with conservatism by how you conducted yourself just now.

It is perfectly possible to be a decent conservative AND think you're an idiot.

You, idiotically, come with statements like the highlighted sentences without ever providing any examples or evidence. YOU equate conservatives with bigots and then you say it's impossible not to equate conservatives bigots. That's how stupid you are, conservatively speaking. You are a bit of a Bwian/gweggy looney.

Run, Fowwest, run.

Quote:

It is perfectly possible to be a decent conservative AND think you're an idiot.

While I have never met one I do believe that at least in theory it is possible to be decent conservative and not be an idiot.

I could be wrong as it does seem an oxymoron or maybe just a conservative moron.

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Robot

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #39 - Oct 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2018 at 7:31pm:

While I have never met one I do believe that at least in theory it is possible to be decent conservative and not be an idiot.

Conservatism is, generally, a desire to preserve social unity, social hierarchy, capitalism, and traditions like the monarchy and religion. In theory, one can argue for those things in a reasonable way without being a raving lunatic or a vicious, small-minded cretin (like the Australian Conservatives, the Monash Forum, and the Sky News after dark lineup).

There's also American-style reactionary conservatism, which yearns to return to Colonial-era society: small government, ruggedly-independent ranchers with homogeneous religious beliefs. Basically like parts of the Arab world today, yet somehow not awful.

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Dnarever

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #40 - Oct 23^rd, 2018 at 9:17pm

Robot wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2018 at 9:02pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2018 at 7:31pm:

While I have never met one I do believe that at least in theory it is possible to be decent conservative and not be an idiot.

Conservatism is, generally, a desire to preserve social unity, social hierarchy, capitalism, and traditions like the monarchy and religion. In theory, one can argue for those things in a reasonable way without being a raving lunatic or a vicious, small-minded cretin (like the Australian Conservatives, the Monash Forum, and the Sky News after dark lineup).

There's also American-style reactionary conservatism, which yearns to return to Colonial-era society: small government, ruggedly-independent ranchers with homogeneous religious beliefs. Basically like parts of the Arab world today, yet somehow not awful.

In theory yes as currently practised in the real world no.

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Tim Neanderthal Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 187 White Hole Gender:	Re: The problem with conservatism Reply #41 - Oct 26^th, 2018 at 3:55pm Conservatism is a political philosophy which believes that if changes need to be made to society, they should be made gradually. Bigots, racists and Islamophobes are not agree to changes the world gradually.
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issuevoter

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Re: The problem with conservatism
Reply #42 - Oct 26^th, 2018 at 4:20pm

The problem with "conservatism," is that its a pigeon-hole in which to stuff people. If one really gets to know a progressive, there's a good chance they would reveal a conservative view of some issue, because people are a "bundle of contradictions."

I have views which are radically Left and Right, and some in the middle. That is why I am an issue voter.

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