Australian Politics Forum - Canberra we have a PROBLEM

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #75 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:20pm

YOU CAN SEE NO SOLUTION..

case closed.... grap cant see any solution to partner murdering

so lets shut the topic down Roll Eyes

good one grap.. dont like the topic!!dont get the answers you want!.. go play somewhere else..

you cant complain about others stuffing up threads with pointless rubbish when you do it yourself..

most murderers do not walk around with a sign saying I am going to kill someone very soon..

do you think by any chance if those issued with DVOs were sent to jail when they break the smallest rules of said DVO... Angry

maybe even have some form of counselling in their psychiatric help......anger management anything at all that would maybe make them think twice before they are let out......

lets say six months for breaking the rules.....

when they come out curfew rules apply maybe even an ankle bracelet....

you talk about mental cases.... which i s a whole different ball park.....

these are mostly men that sit next to you on a bus or in a cafe look as normal as you do....the women can be frozen with fear and not talk about what they live with....perhaps hoping he will be hit by a bus.... Roll Eyes

all laws regarding stalking DV. should apply to every STATE the fact we have different laws in each state is bizarre.....women living in fear and in so many cases children..... involves us all... not just when it happens in the State you live in..

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #76 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:22pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 12:47pm:

WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO PREVENT THE KIND OF INCIDENTS THAT LEAD TO SIX TOTALLY DIFFERENT DEATHS SEPARATED BY HUNDREDS AND SOMETIMES THOUSANDS OF MILES ACROSS VARIOUS STATES OF AUSTRALIA? HOW WOULD YOU HAVE PREVENTED THESE THINGS FROM HAPPENING?

ok, so I've gone back over all your posts in this thread to get a better sense of what you are actually arguing. I've come up with a summary of sorts:

- murder is rare, so its not that big a deal
- why focus on these particular types of murders, when murder is murder?
- how can you possibly prevent these types of murders anyway?
- your only solution is to continue the outrageous "violence" against men (and then segue into rant mode about the femi-nazi conspiracy against men)

So basically, you have a two-pronged attack here - firstly you relativise and diminish the real crisis of deaths due to DV and argue that its just not a big deal, and secondly create a strawman that our "solution" is to simply use this as an opportunity to further victimise men. Basically your whole modus operandi here is to take every opportunity to rant against women.

My solution? I made it pretty clear in my first post on this topic that the key problem was the 'vibe' of disrespect and outright hatred of women that emanates precisely from the sorts attitudes and language that you yourself express. We need to deal with these toxic attitudes in order to foster a make a less misogynistic society. Of course most men who hold these attitudes are not themselves rapists and murderers, however its my belief that its the culture of misogyny that they play a large role in creating, that gives succor to the actual rapists and murderers. I don't believe, as you seem to, that a ~bi-weekly rate of DV murder rate is completely random cannot possibly be traced to anything inherent in our society or culture.

You ask for my solution, I say educate boys at a young age not to disrespect women. No need for any "violence" against men (whatever that actually means).

In any case, to someone for whom insulting and disrespecting women seems to come so naturally and instinctively, I'm not expecting my argument to hold any sort of sway.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #77 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:42pm

WELL said gandy well said..

I am glad someone makes sense of graps ..arguments...

do you think we should get back to using words like

respect
empathy
good manners..

in schools I mean... a bit late for some of us.. Wink

funny thing I still have a grandson in primary and when I think about it.. I have sat with almost all my grandkids and done their spelling bee homework..

and never once do I recall any of those words being on their lists.... Roll Eyes

..

parents are far to busy today to pay attention to their kids...

now thats how it is in 2018....

both work come home tired.. what the hell .. watch tele.... they spend half the money on buying kids gadgets to keep them quiet...the latest gaming fortnight is killing and celebrated by dancing I believe.

but what the heck! it keeps them quiet.. Sad

gandy it is a battle ground for sure but bring back the basics respect for each other right from kindy...parents need to be reminded that we need more than the 3 Rs.. to get us through life.

Back to top

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28027
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #78 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 9^th, 2018 at 3:24pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9^th, 2018 at 11:37am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 9^th, 2018 at 11:02am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 9^th, 2018 at 10:58am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 9^th, 2018 at 10:47am:

Well for me, I just don't rape and/or murder.

It's really not that difficult.

So you advocate that all other men - obviously a lower breed - should be taught not to rape and murder?

Rape is THE lowest incidence non-lethal crime and murder even lower - tell me your solution.....

Demonise all men except your group, who are obviously above suspicion..

That's what it sounds like, Grigor... classical elitist nonsense.... if I want that kind of thinking, I need only look at Pauline Hanson.... 'I'm a self-made business woman who did it all myself, and all you unemployed etc out there are just leaners!'

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's mainly the men who are doing all the raping and killing, isn't it?

Nobody had to teach me not to rape and murder, by the way - it's just not something I've ever considered doing.

I don't know, I'm just funny like that.

If you look at society as a whole - men are killed by violent acts more than women, and men do predominate in both the killing and the raping.

My question is how are you to go about 'teaching' men not to rape and murder, since those who will do so will not be taught anyway - and when you say 'men' - you include all men except yourself, who you say does not need teaching those things.

How are you going to sort out who needs it and who doesn't? Other than on the purely self-reporting basis you apply to yourself?

Wait for the Labor sheilas to get hold of the reins - and see what happens then... more monstering of countless men in the fervent and futile hope that by doing so, a few bad ones might be caught or prevented - meanwhile your very actions in monstering more and more men is itself unwarranted violence and thus adds fuel to the fire, as well as encouraging false complaints from women, and creating an inevitable response from many of those afflicted men.

Inflicting violence on an entire social group as a means of seeking to control wrongful behaviour of a few within that group has never worked yet... and leads to retaliation in every way.

So - I ask again - what is your solution... not just your personal pious anecdote. Why would you begin to imagine that under such 'laws', you will not be targeted at random in this ongoing campaign of terror??

Being a self-proclaimed 'good guy' never saved a single victim of any holocaust.....

Grappler mostly your posts are pretty mundane, nothing out of the ordinary standard sentiments. But I have noticed when it comes to topics about women and sexism/misogyny, you suddenly get quite shrill. Who knows, maybe you had some bad personal experience with a divorce, I don't know, and I don't want to know.

Your sentiments about women are pretty emblematic of the problem our society faces on the issue of women: male victimhood, always assuming sinister intentions on the part of women, subtly denigrating women etc. The way I see it, a problem like violence against women has two components: 1. the very small number of actual offenders/potential offenders and 2. a significantly larger population of enablers - those men (and possibly some women) who put on this "nothing to see here folks - why are you so mean to men!!??" routine - exactly like you are doing now. These people create a sort of 'vibe' that instills into the sub-conscious of society the idea that misogyny and its logical extension - violence against women - is maybe not so bad. This is the fuel that the actual offenders need to offend.

male victimhood? Grin

As for the rest .... perrlease.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28027
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #79 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:56pm

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 1:08pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

ods wrote Today at 7:41am:
Ye Grappler wrote Yesterday at 8:14pm:
cods wrote Yesterday at 6:44pm:
Ye Grappler wrote Yesterday at 6:39pm:
Gandalf... GANDALF.. stay with me, buddy... dustoff is only two minutes out... don't you go to sleep on me.... you can still win this one........ just hang in there....

grap go write a book about how hard done by you are just because you were born a man....

maybe even start a thread on what a sad life you have just because you are a man....

Don't beat the man - discuss the issue of government sponsored violence as its chosen means to resolve the issues of violence... and how that is doomed to failure because it IS violence.

when you decide you will discuss in a sensible manner let me know.....in the mean time its hard to tell what the hell you are on about..

you are not writing a fantasy book... why not try normal every day English for a change..

what he hell is govt sponsored violence?????>..

grow up grap...if you want people to engage with you.

Not my fault you don't understand history and politics... and the actual functioning of violence in a society and what violence is....

Simple question:- What is your solution to these totally separate and widespread acts of violence?

Two questions:- What exactly is it you want Canberra to do?

Not hard, really - what is your plan to resolve these issues, cods - other than criticise me for asking and explaining a few possibilities to you... very sensible of me....

I know - let's go for the Labor sheila's way:-

seriously i still dont understand a word you say

maybe you had better stick with gandy he has better luck than I...

as it is you appear to believe unless the 6 deaths all took place in the one state at the same time..

there really is so little to talk about.. Sad

yet any thread on women being attacked and murdered,in you come to fight for the males you believe are killed but ignored....

did you say there are no women in jails for murdering male partners???????....I cant remember Roll Eyes

its pretty much what you believe...

you know there are a lot of tv shows on right now with husbands who kill their wives and pretend to the world they ran off with a lover leaving their beloved child or children behind.... Roll Eyes

its true! some of these guys have actually got away with their crime for 30 odd years... Angry

for the life of me I cannot recall one case where a women has been arrested 30 years later charged with murdering her husband....

women do not tend to murder then bury or chop the body up so it can be discarded nice and easy......then move the boyfriend into the house and carry on as if nothing had happened....

I would like to see for a start

when anyone! and that goes for both sexes break and AVO or DVO rules.......they go to jail... no second chances....

unless these DVOs have teeth they are a complete waste of time...

every case where a person is being threatened must be taken seriously by the Police....

no one should live in fear...because of some madman...

not just Pollies like SHY.. Angry

I am very angry about that!...one law for them and one for the rest of us.......no thanks..

the person arrested for the murder of Kirstie does in fact have a police record.....

Quote:

He was arrested on outstanding warrants for multiple alleged offences, including fraud, resisting an officer, possess prohibited drug and custody of a knife in a public place.

so whats your solution grap??.. give up because we cant save them all?

Answer his question Cods .... what are your suggestions as to how this problem can be solved. Roll Eyes

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28027
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #80 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:03pm

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:20pm:

YOU CAN SEE NO SOLUTION..

case closed.... grap cant see any solution to partner murdering

so lets shut the topic down Roll Eyes

good one grap.. dont like the topic!!dont get the answers you want!.. go play somewhere else..

you cant complain about others stuffing up threads with pointless rubbish when you do it yourself..

most murderers do not walk around with a sign saying I am going to kill someone very soon..

do you think by any chance if those issued with DVOs were sent to jail when they break the smallest rules of said DVO... Angry

maybe even have some form of counselling in their psychiatric help......anger management anything at all that would maybe make them think twice before they are let out......

lets say six months for breaking the rules.....

when they come out curfew rules apply maybe even an ankle bracelet....

you talk about mental cases.... which i s a whole different ball park.....

these are mostly men that sit next to you on a bus or in a cafe look as normal as you do....the women can be frozen with fear and not talk about what they live with....perhaps hoping he will be hit by a bus.... Roll Eyes

all laws regarding stalking DV. should apply to every STATE the fact we have different laws in each state is bizarre.....women living in fear and in so many cases children..... involves us all... not just when it happens in the State you live in..

For petes sake Cods ... neither can you.

You put it up for discussion ... intimate it's a problem Canberra should solve ...

Grapp makes a few points & asks you a few questions ..

what's he get accusations that he's probably a butt hurt misogynist who had a bad divorce experience
and he's playing the male victimhood card....

and being shrill Roll Eyes

So far all you've done is paint it as a man bash & all men are violent & rapists.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28027
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #81 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 12:47pm:

WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO PREVENT THE KIND OF INCIDENTS THAT LEAD TO SIX TOTALLY DIFFERENT DEATHS SEPARATED BY HUNDREDS AND SOMETIMES THOUSANDS OF MILES ACROSS VARIOUS STATES OF AUSTRALIA? HOW WOULD YOU HAVE PREVENTED THESE THINGS FROM HAPPENING?

ok, so I've gone back over all your posts in this thread to get a better sense of what you are actually arguing. I've come up with a summary of sorts:

- murder is rare, so its not that big a deal
- why focus on these particular types of murders, when murder is murder?
- how can you possibly prevent these types of murders anyway?
- your only solution is to continue the outrageous "violence" against men (and then segue into rant mode about the femi-nazi conspiracy against men)

So basically, you have a two-pronged attack here - firstly you relativise and diminish the real crisis of deaths due to DV and argue that its just not a big deal, and secondly create a strawman that our "solution" is to simply use this as an opportunity to further victimise men. Basically your whole modus operandi here is to take every opportunity to rant against women.

My solution? I made it pretty clear in my first post on this topic that the key problem was the 'vibe' of disrespect and outright hatred of women that emanates precisely from the sorts attitudes and language that you yourself express. We need to deal with these toxic attitudes in order to foster a make a less misogynistic society. Of course most men who hold these attitudes are not themselves rapists and murderers, however its my belief that its the culture of misogyny that they play a large role in creating, that gives succor to the actual rapists and murderers. I don't believe, as you seem to, that a ~bi-weekly rate of DV murder rate is completely random cannot possibly be traced to anything inherent in our society or culture.

You ask for my solution, I say educate boys at a young age not to disrespect women. No need for any "violence" against men (whatever that actually means).

In any case, to someone for whom insulting and disrespecting women seems to come so naturally and instinctively, I'm not expecting my argument to hold any sort of sway.

Yeah yeah ... just like your only white people are racist. Roll Eyes

As for "teaching boys at a young age to respect women" .....why do you think that has not always been happening?

Anyway your solution is in full force isn't it?

They aren't young boys anymore ... they're gender neutral ... or you're dressing them in frocks..... no?

Problem solved.

Roll Eyes

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 95241 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM Reply #82 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:20pm dear Cods, The only way to stop violence against women is bring back hanging. As both sides of politics are limp wristed progressives, the murders, rapes & violence will continue forever.
Back to top	IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131456
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #83 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:20pm:

dear Cods,
The only way to stop violence against women is bring back hanging.

As both sides of politics are limp wristed progressives,
the murders, rapes & violence will continue forever.

He's right, cods.

There are 31 states in the US which have capital punishment, and none of them have ANY murders, rape, or violence.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 95241
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #84 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:29pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:20pm:

dear Cods,
The only way to stop violence against women is bring back hanging.

As both sides of politics are limp wristed progressives,
the murders, rapes & violence will continue forever.

He's right, cods.

There are 31 states in the US which have capital punishment, and none of them have ANY murders, rape, or violence.

But none of those states hang em high.

The guilty crook has to be hanged high so that everyone can see
and it needs to be broadcast live on prime time TV.

It's the fear that promotes that would stop the
murders, rapes and violence.

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131456
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #85 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:32pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:20pm:

dear Cods,
The only way to stop violence against women is bring back hanging.

As both sides of politics are limp wristed progressives,
the murders, rapes & violence will continue forever.

He's right, cods.

There are 31 states in the US which have capital punishment, and none of them have ANY murders, rape, or violence.

But none of those states hang em high.

The guilty crook has to be hanged high so that everyone can see
and it needs to be broadcast live on prime time TV.

It's the fear that promotes that would stop the
murders, rapes and violence.

Not true.

Several states in the US have hanging as a method of capital punishment, and they all still have high rates of murder, rape, and violence.

Washington, Delaware and New Hampshire come to mind.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 95241
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #86 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:20pm:

dear Cods,
The only way to stop violence against women is bring back hanging.

As both sides of politics are limp wristed progressives,
the murders, rapes & violence will continue forever.

He's right, cods.

There are 31 states in the US which have capital punishment, and none of them have ANY murders, rape, or violence.

But none of those states hang em high.

The guilty crook has to be hanged high so that everyone can see
and it needs to be broadcast live on prime time TV.

It's the fear that promotes that would stop the
murders, rapes and violence.

Not true.

Several states in the US have hanging as a method of capital punishment, and they all still have high rates of murder, rape, and violence.

None of those states hang em high.

It's all lethal injection behind closed doors.
What fear is that going to strike into the hearts of crooks?

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131456
Gender: male

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #87 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:37pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:32pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:20pm:

dear Cods,
The only way to stop violence against women is bring back hanging.

As both sides of politics are limp wristed progressives,
the murders, rapes & violence will continue forever.

He's right, cods.

There are 31 states in the US which have capital punishment, and none of them have ANY murders, rape, or violence.

But none of those states hang em high.

The guilty crook has to be hanged high so that everyone can see
and it needs to be broadcast live on prime time TV.

It's the fear that promotes that would stop the
murders, rapes and violence.

Not true.

Several states in the US have hanging as a method of capital punishment, and they all still have high rates of murder, rape, and violence.

None of those states hang em high.

It's all lethal injection behind closed doors.
What fear is that going to strike into the hearts of crooks?

Washington, Delaware and New Hampshire all have hanging as a method of capital punishment.

Back to top

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: Canberra we have a PROBLEM
Reply #88 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 4:20pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:56pm:

cods wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 1:08pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 10^th, 2018 at 11:18am:

ods wrote Today at 7:41am:
Ye Grappler wrote Yesterday at 8:14pm:
cods wrote Yesterday at 6:44pm:
Ye Grappler wrote Yesterday at 6:39pm:
Gandalf... GANDALF.. stay with me, buddy... dustoff is only two minutes out... don't you go to sleep on me.... you can still win this one........ just hang in there....

grap go write a book about how hard done by you are just because you were born a man....

maybe even start a thread on what a sad life you have just because you are a man....

Don't beat the man - discuss the issue of government sponsored violence as its chosen means to resolve the issues of violence... and how that is doomed to failure because it IS violence.

when you decide you will discuss in a sensible manner let me know.....in the mean time its hard to tell what the hell you are on about..

you are not writing a fantasy book... why not try normal every day English for a change..

what he hell is govt sponsored violence?????>..

grow up grap...if you want people to engage with you.

Not my fault you don't understand history and politics... and the actual functioning of violence in a society and what violence is....

Simple question:- What is your solution to these totally separate and widespread acts of violence?

Two questions:- What exactly is it you want Canberra to do?

Not hard, really - what is your plan to resolve these issues, cods - other than criticise me for asking and explaining a few possibilities to you... very sensible of me....

I know - let's go for the Labor sheila's way:-

seriously i still dont understand a word you say

maybe you had better stick with gandy he has better luck than I...

as it is you appear to believe unless the 6 deaths all took place in the one state at the same time..

there really is so little to talk about.. Sad