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Daylight Stupid Savings (Read 4259 times)
Gnads
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #30 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:38am
 
It's a lifetime ago Peccar

I could be mistaken in that the trial ran for 3 years 1989 to 1992 before the referendum.

I was sure there was a trial in the late 70's when I was still playing footy.

Maybe I was just thinking of the devastating beer strike  Shocked
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #31 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:40am
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:38am:
It's a lifetime ago Peccar

I could be mistaken in that the trial ran for 3 years 1989 to 1992 before the referendum.

I was sure there was a trial in the late 70's when I was still playing footy.

Maybe I was just thinking of the devastating beer strike  Shocked


Maybe a trial, but no vote   Undecided

Anyway, as long as we don't have another vote here in WA for a while - I'm happy without DLS.

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Captain Caveman
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #32 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:46am
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:24am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:16am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:40am:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:31am:
DLS debate raises it's ugly head every year in QLD.

2 trials - 2 referendums - twice the vote was "NO".

Accept the umpires decision or move south of the border.


I didn't know they had two referendums.

One was in 1992 - when was the other?

1992 was over a quarter of a century ago, so maybe it's time a new generation had a say on the matter.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of DLS - if they never have another referendum on it, it would suit me fine.

We've had four here in WA, with the last one being in 2009.

That received a 55% 'No' vote.

I'm good with that   Wink



They tried in 2010 to have one. Something like 60% wanted it.
Was shut down due to regiinal Qld not supporting the bill. But it wasn't for them. It was for SEQ. Bligh said she wouldn't support it due to regional. Go figure. Laingbrook attacked it also.

Wouldn't bother me. I don't work normal hours anyway.
It is very hard for the people trading on the tweed hence it only applied to SEQ, which I can understand.


And the entire state doesn't revolve around "the Tweed"/GC or Brisbane.

As far as only being for SEQ .... where would you draw the line?

I'm on the Fraser Coast 3 hrs north of Brisbane .. we certainly don't need it.

In late spring & summer it's daylight from 4.30 am to 7.00pm.

Adjust your working hours like many do in summer.

It's not all about tourist operators/retailers.



Pretty sure that is what got it the flick. A boarder within a border.
Construction on the coast was another one suffering as well I think. Like I said it doesn't bother me. My hrs are all over the place.

As you said, adjust your life. Nothing wrong with normal time at all. We've survived this long without it. Most in Nth NSW that I know hate it anyway.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #33 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:57am
 
Mid North Coast hates it, too.... I still prefer the South Coast, though.... even the cold weather in winter....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #34 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 12:53pm
 
At least the other states seemed to have had a choice, in SA it was just imposed on us and its back to getting up before the roosters, my curtains are already faded and I have to save up for some more.
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Gnads
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #35 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 1:00pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:46am:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:24am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:16am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:40am:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:31am:
DLS debate raises it's ugly head every year in QLD.

2 trials - 2 referendums - twice the vote was "NO".

Accept the umpires decision or move south of the border.


I didn't know they had two referendums.

One was in 1992 - when was the other?

1992 was over a quarter of a century ago, so maybe it's time a new generation had a say on the matter.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of DLS - if they never have another referendum on it, it would suit me fine.

We've had four here in WA, with the last one being in 2009.

That received a 55% 'No' vote.

I'm good with that   Wink



They tried in 2010 to have one. Something like 60% wanted it.
Was shut down due to regiinal Qld not supporting the bill. But it wasn't for them. It was for SEQ. Bligh said she wouldn't support it due to regional. Go figure. Laingbrook attacked it also.

Wouldn't bother me. I don't work normal hours anyway.
It is very hard for the people trading on the tweed hence it only applied to SEQ, which I can understand.


And the entire state doesn't revolve around "the Tweed"/GC or Brisbane.

As far as only being for SEQ .... where would you draw the line?

I'm on the Fraser Coast 3 hrs north of Brisbane .. we certainly don't need it.

In late spring & summer it's daylight from 4.30 am to 7.00pm.

Adjust your working hours like many do in summer.

It's not all about tourist operators/retailers.



Pretty sure that is what got it the flick. A boarder within a border.
Construction on the coast was another one suffering as well I think. Like I said it doesn't bother me. My hrs are all over the place.

As you said, adjust your life. Nothing wrong with normal time at all. We've survived this long without it. Most in Nth NSW that I know hate it anyway.



I'm glad you qualified that with an "I think".

I can't see how that hour would affect construction.

Because that's one industry that worked to summertime hours.

Instead of a 7am start they'd start at 6am EST.

Suppliers in QLD worked the same times.

I work irregular hours (day & nights)..... but I can assure you I didn't appreciate my 4.30 - 5 am starts in daylight in summer, being actually at 3.30 to 4 am and back in the dark.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #36 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:26pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 5:15am:
Now my light is gone in the morning. Stupid daylight savings. Theres no justification for it in this era.

Spot


With solar becoming more commonplace, it makes more sense now to implement or continue with Daylight Savings. By shifting the day forward by an hour, you're shifting the network load demand to be in parallel with the level of solar insolation received during the day. For example, if the time sunrise occurs is shifted from approx. 4.30 AM to 5.30 AM, it falls in line more with the time people wake up and create demand on the grid. Likewise, shifting sunset from approx 7.30 PM to 8.30 PM falls more in line with the time people switch off air conditioners and other appliances as they prepare to get ready for bed.

Even if this wasn't a factor, there are other economic benefits, such as a reduction in crime rates and an increase in spending in shops and restaurants. I've never bought the "well I wake up when the sun goes up" argument that farmers often push as a justification for not having Daylight Savings - if your work routine is not governed by what time it is it shouldn't be an issue. Nor should the argument "we've had x referendums on the issue and the majority voted no" be a justification, particularly if the referendums were held more than 10 years ago.

Ultimately, the issue would be best resolved if Daylight Savings was governed by the Federal Government and not individual states - either every state has it or no states have it at all to at least maintain unity between time zones.
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Hypocrite: A person who complains about income inequality in the Developed world, then buys a coffee worth 3 - 4 times the average daily wage earned individually by a billion people across the planet.
 
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #37 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:28pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 1:00pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:46am:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:24am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:16am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:40am:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:31am:
DLS debate raises it's ugly head every year in QLD.

2 trials - 2 referendums - twice the vote was "NO".

Accept the umpires decision or move south of the border.


I didn't know they had two referendums.

One was in 1992 - when was the other?

1992 was over a quarter of a century ago, so maybe it's time a new generation had a say on the matter.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of DLS - if they never have another referendum on it, it would suit me fine.

We've had four here in WA, with the last one being in 2009.

That received a 55% 'No' vote.

I'm good with that   Wink



They tried in 2010 to have one. Something like 60% wanted it.
Was shut down due to regiinal Qld not supporting the bill. But it wasn't for them. It was for SEQ. Bligh said she wouldn't support it due to regional. Go figure. Laingbrook attacked it also.

Wouldn't bother me. I don't work normal hours anyway.
It is very hard for the people trading on the tweed hence it only applied to SEQ, which I can understand.


And the entire state doesn't revolve around "the Tweed"/GC or Brisbane.

As far as only being for SEQ .... where would you draw the line?

I'm on the Fraser Coast 3 hrs north of Brisbane .. we certainly don't need it.

In late spring & summer it's daylight from 4.30 am to 7.00pm.

Adjust your working hours like many do in summer.

It's not all about tourist operators/retailers.



Pretty sure that is what got it the flick. A boarder within a border.
Construction on the coast was another one suffering as well I think. Like I said it doesn't bother me. My hrs are all over the place.

As you said, adjust your life. Nothing wrong with normal time at all. We've survived this long without it. Most in Nth NSW that I know hate it anyway.



I'm glad you qualified that with an "I think".

I can't see how that hour would affect construction.

Because that's one industry that worked to summertime hours.

Instead of a 7am start they'd start at 6am EST.

Suppliers in QLD worked the same times.

I work irregular hours (day & nights)..... but I can assure you I didn't appreciate my 4.30 - 5 am starts in daylight in summer, being actually at 3.30 to 4 am and back in the dark.



No. The suppliers for materials. Not the workers.
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Gnads
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #38 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:19pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 1:00pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:46am:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:24am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 11:16am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:40am:
Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 10:31am:
DLS debate raises it's ugly head every year in QLD.

2 trials - 2 referendums - twice the vote was "NO".

Accept the umpires decision or move south of the border.


I didn't know they had two referendums.

One was in 1992 - when was the other?

1992 was over a quarter of a century ago, so maybe it's time a new generation had a say on the matter.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of DLS - if they never have another referendum on it, it would suit me fine.

We've had four here in WA, with the last one being in 2009.

That received a 55% 'No' vote.

I'm good with that   Wink



They tried in 2010 to have one. Something like 60% wanted it.
Was shut down due to regiinal Qld not supporting the bill. But it wasn't for them. It was for SEQ. Bligh said she wouldn't support it due to regional. Go figure. Laingbrook attacked it also.

Wouldn't bother me. I don't work normal hours anyway.
It is very hard for the people trading on the tweed hence it only applied to SEQ, which I can understand.


And the entire state doesn't revolve around "the Tweed"/GC or Brisbane.

As far as only being for SEQ .... where would you draw the line?

I'm on the Fraser Coast 3 hrs north of Brisbane .. we certainly don't need it.

In late spring & summer it's daylight from 4.30 am to 7.00pm.

Adjust your working hours like many do in summer.

It's not all about tourist operators/retailers.



Pretty sure that is what got it the flick. A boarder within a border.
Construction on the coast was another one suffering as well I think. Like I said it doesn't bother me. My hrs are all over the place.

As you said, adjust your life. Nothing wrong with normal time at all. We've survived this long without it. Most in Nth NSW that I know hate it anyway.



I'm glad you qualified that with an "I think".

I can't see how that hour would affect construction.

Because that's one industry that worked to summertime hours.

Instead of a 7am start they'd start at 6am EST.

Suppliers in QLD worked the same times.

I work irregular hours (day & nights)..... but I can assure you I didn't appreciate my 4.30 - 5 am starts in daylight in summer, being actually at 3.30 to 4 am and back in the dark.



No. The suppliers for materials. Not the workers.


That's what I was referring to when I said suppliers.

And if supplies that may come from interstate can't be ordered in the 7hrs out an 8 hour day .... most work longer ... then they are bloody useless. One hour makes SFA difference.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #39 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:28pm
 
minarchist wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:26pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 5:15am:
Now my light is gone in the morning. Stupid daylight savings. Theres no justification for it in this era.

Spot


With solar becoming more commonplace, it makes more sense now to implement or continue with Daylight Savings. By shifting the day forward by an hour, you're shifting the network load demand to be in parallel with the level of solar insolation received during the day. For example, if the time sunrise occurs is shifted from approx. 4.30 AM to 5.30 AM, it falls in line more with the time people wake up and create demand on the grid. Likewise, shifting sunset from approx 7.30 PM to 8.30 PM falls more in line with the time people switch off air conditioners and other appliances as they prepare to get ready for bed.

Even if this wasn't a factor, there are other economic benefits, such as a reduction in crime rates and an increase in spending in shops and restaurants. I've never bought the "well I wake up when the sun goes up" argument that farmers often push as a justification for not having Daylight Savings - if your work routine is not governed by what time it is it shouldn't be an issue. Nor should the argument "we've had x referendums on the issue and the majority voted no" be a justification, particularly if the referendums were held more than 10 years ago.

Ultimately, the issue would be best resolved if Daylight Savings was governed by the Federal Government and not individual states - either every state has it or no states have it at all to at least maintain unity between time zones.


It has nothing to do with solar load - sounds like curtains to me

Spot
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #40 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:42pm
 
Nothing changes for me. It was hot here today though ... 27C ...
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #41 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 4:00pm
 
OddSocks wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
Nothing changes for me. It was hot here today though ... 27C ...



Overcast and raining here for a few days - weather holding at around 20 deg C - good start for Spring.... hope it holds until Summer... it's warm enough for my bananas to recover from frost but cool enough to not be pouring sweat... and the ocean's warm .... the extra hour of daylight should bring the bananas along fast...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #42 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 4:25am
 
minarchist wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 2:26pm:
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Oct 8th, 2018 at 5:15am:
Now my light is gone in the morning. Stupid daylight savings. Theres no justification for it in this era.

Spot


With solar becoming more commonplace, it makes more sense now to implement or continue with Daylight Savings. By shifting the day forward by an hour, you're shifting the network load demand to be in parallel with the level of solar insolation received during the day. For example, if the time sunrise occurs is shifted from approx. 4.30 AM to 5.30 AM, it falls in line more with the time people wake up and create demand on the grid. Likewise, shifting sunset from approx 7.30 PM to 8.30 PM falls more in line with the time people switch off air conditioners and other appliances as they prepare to get ready for bed.

Even if this wasn't a factor, there are other economic benefits, such as a reduction in crime rates and an increase in spending in shops and restaurants. I've never bought the "well I wake up when the sun goes up" argument that farmers often push as a justification for not having Daylight Savings - if your work routine is not governed by what time it is it shouldn't be an issue. Nor should the argument "we've had x referendums on the issue and the majority voted no" be a justification, particularly if the referendums were held more than 10 years ago.

Ultimately, the issue would be best resolved if Daylight Savings was governed by the Federal Government and not individual states - either every state has it or no states have it at all to at least maintain unity between time zones.


I would go for walks during the winter. The sun starting to come up around 5am. It probably comes up around 4:30am now. The longest days, the sun starts to come up around 4am. "Sun starts to come up" meaning that the first daylight hours are upon us.

But that is not really the issue for me. I work in a restaurant. We have noted that the summer work hours get put back an hour to compensate for the sunsets going from near 6pm to 7pm. That means that our restaurant orders come in an hour later. With peak demand, we have to keep more staff back an hour to make sure that the late shift do not get burdened too much with clean up near closing. How it works is that we have to have staff on hand to deal with the 4 to 5pm orders. But there is not a great deal of work to do at the time. From 6 to 7pm, our orders are increased considerably, with peak period not ending until 8 to 9pm -- depending if there is an event on television that night.

Imagine running a restaurant business that gets most of their customers at night. You have to adjust according to the seasons. But with daylight savings, you not only have to deal with shifting sunsets, but the fact is that customers will come in an average of another hour later. And though we get the "it's too hot to cook dinner" customers coming in, the reality is that we have to be burdened with exacerbated peak demand of customers, rather than having to deal with the same amount of customers over another hour of opening hours.

And apart from that, Queensland is too hot and/or humid to have daylight savings. Imagine trying to get your children to bed at 8pm with the sun still out. Or the 2pm sun on the skins of children riding their bikes home from school at the 3pm time on the clock.

I can't see how farmers would be affected by daylight savings, either. Instead of getting up at 4am, they get up at 5am. Instead of finishing the day at 7pm, they finish at 8pm. Or however it is that farmers work.

As for power usage from solar panels, the load of electricity usage is not going to be impacted by moving the clocks forward. You are likely to use power to cook your meals when the sun goes down. I would likely use my air conditioner an hour before I usually would with daylight savings. Then I would switch off at dusk. Meaning, I would still use more electricity during the day -- not the I use the A/C power very often.
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Gnads
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #43 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:58am
 
Bottom line is you cannot "save" daylight

it is what it is summer or winter

longer & shorter

changing the clock is an Irish way of pretending

please refer again to the meme below
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Daylight Stupid Savings
Reply #44 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 12:29pm
 
You can understand why Brisbane wouldn't want DLS ... after all, Brisbane is as far to the east of Melbourne as Adelaide is as far to the West of Melbourne. In the bigger states there is a large difference in "real time" from West to East.

As for me in Melbourne? I would like DLS all year round and double DLS in Summer.  Cool
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