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Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns... (Read 2843 times)
Ye Grappler
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #30 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:53pm
 
Yeah - but the peace-loving Australian male doesn't do it - in NSW it's primarily those pesky Mussos.... though we're generally happy to see that lot burn each other...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #31 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 3:06pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Yeah - but the peace-loving Australian male doesn't do it - in NSW it's primarily those pesky Mussos.... though we're generally happy to see that lot burn each other...


Of course not.

Australian males would never dream or shooting anyone.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-06/pennant-hills-shooting-of-teens-sydney-fat...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-11/seven-people-found-dead-in-margaret-river-...
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #32 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 4:05pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 1:51pm:
I'll break it down for you, if you like.

1996 and 2003 came before 2016.

So, those first two years mentioned were followed by 2016.

The annual rate of gun deaths in 1996 was 2.9 per 100,000.

In 2016 the figure was 0.9 per 100,000.

0.9 is less than 2.9, so it was a decrease.

Taking these facts into consideration, this statement is completely correct:

"Overall, it’s clear that the gun buybacks in 1996 and 2003 and related firearm restrictions were followed by decreases in overall gun deaths, including firearm related homicides and suicides."





So let us be clear on this subject.

YOU ARE CONVINCED THAT THOSE STATISTICS ARE DUE ONLY TO THE GUN BUY BACK AND NOTHING MORE.....

A SIMPLE YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE......
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #33 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 4:10pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 1:51pm:
I'll break it down for you, if you like.

1996 and 2003 came before 2016.

So, those first two years mentioned were followed by 2016.

The annual rate of gun deaths in 1996 was 2.9 per 100,000.

In 2016 the figure was 0.9 per 100,000.

0.9 is less than 2.9, so it was a decrease.

Taking these facts into consideration, this statement is completely correct:

"Overall, it’s clear that the gun buybacks in 1996 and 2003 and related firearm restrictions were followed by decreases in overall gun deaths, including firearm related homicides and suicides."





So let us be clear on this subject.

YOU ARE CONVINCED THAT THOSE STATISTICS ARE DUE ONLY TO THE GUN BUY BACK AND NOTHING MORE.....

A SIMPLE YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE......


No.

And I don't remember saying anything like that.

The (factual) statement was:

"Overall, it’s clear that the gun buybacks in 1996 and 2003 and related firearm restrictions were followed by decreases in overall gun deaths, including firearm related homicides and suicides."
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #34 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:24pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 4:10pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 4:05pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 1:51pm:
I'll break it down for you, if you like.

1996 and 2003 came before 2016.

So, those first two years mentioned were followed by 2016.

The annual rate of gun deaths in 1996 was 2.9 per 100,000.

In 2016 the figure was 0.9 per 100,000.

0.9 is less than 2.9, so it was a decrease.

Taking these facts into consideration, this statement is completely correct:

"Overall, it’s clear that the gun buybacks in 1996 and 2003 and related firearm restrictions were followed by decreases in overall gun deaths, including firearm related homicides and suicides."





So let us be clear on this subject.

YOU ARE CONVINCED THAT THOSE STATISTICS ARE DUE ONLY TO THE GUN BUY BACK AND NOTHING MORE.....

A SIMPLE YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE......


No.

And I don't remember saying anything like that.

The (factual) statement was:

"Overall, it’s clear that the gun buybacks in 1996 and 2003 and related firearm restrictions were followed by decreases in overall gun deaths, including firearm related homicides and suicides."




Okay....
So the buyback plus the restrictions then.

By restrictions you mean removing semi auto high powered rifles and pump action shot guns???
In other words the removal of semi auto rifles and pump action shot guns is the reason why the deaths have decreased.
So it's not "cool" to shoot someone with a single shot bolt action rifle???
Be clear. Explain what your quote is refering too. You're obviously leaning on something but it isn't clear.

Also, define what the quote means by gun restrictions.
Are they refering to the new licensing procedure where it is mandatory to attend a firearm safety course, have criminal background checks, have the firearms locked in a secure safe with the firing pins removed, regular police visits to inspect the firearms (certain people). If so then those same responsible owners could have semi autos in that safe too and your stats would still remain the same.
Remember, the laws only work for honest people and protect the crims from honest people. Like I said, just last year a cop was killed with an SKK in toowoomba. Crims will always use whatever gun they can get hold of. So criminal shootings will always happen no matter what. You can have all the laws you like, it will have no effect on crims. You could remove every registered firearm from every household in Australia and still have murders involving firearms.

You see, as I said in a post above. There are more guns now then there was then. You can't deny that. But you're saying the deaths have decreased. It seems to me that you are saying, and trying to use the above quote from whatever source to say that becuase there are no more AR15s, SKKs, pump actions on the shelf at the gun store that there are lower firearm deaths. Because that is a cop out.

Now, the ratio of criminal shootings to accidental shootings would be interesting to know in your stats. You got them available at all? It's easy to throw stats around but when those stats are broken down then we can see where the figures fall.
I would say the honest people have become smarter when handling a firearm for sure.   The firearms are not left in the closet with the pin in ready to go so young johnny can blow his mates head off accidently, there is definitely more care taken by owners hence your figures.....but there are more firearms now.
Even grapplers ref to Switzerland is proof that correct training for honest people is the key.

A 5 mag single shot bolt action 243 will kill just as well as a soviet SKK or colt AR15. Doesn't matter what the weapon is and thats what you gun grabbers seem to focus on...the weapon itself and the poor old honest gun owner/enthusiast.
I have no weapons at present so I'm not defending them because I have them. I believe that Australia has been conned big time by a corrupt gov. We got played big time.


Also....we could all be armed to the teeth with full automatics and still not be a threat to these parasite western governments. They have ultrasonic sound weapons that will destroy anything. So a gun would be useless. And they're weapons that we know of. Imagine what the mad c@#ts have got hidden away shouldsuch an event take place.
Do not believe this gov will protect you. They will not.

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greggerypeccary
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #35 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:35pm
 

It's not my quote, obviously.

I posted the link before.

Here it is again:

http://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-did-government-gun-buybacks-reduce-th...
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #36 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:40pm
 
Australia is full of guns. Even I have a gun. It's easy to get a licence . You have to join a gun club and then you can buy guns like going to the supermarket.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #37 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:40pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 3:06pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Yeah - but the peace-loving Australian male doesn't do it - in NSW it's primarily those pesky Mussos.... though we're generally happy to see that lot burn each other...


Of course not.

Australian males would never dream or shooting anyone.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-06/pennant-hills-shooting-of-teens-sydney-fat...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-11/seven-people-found-dead-in-margaret-river-...



Ah, the odd lone crazed gunperson in a school book repository never hurt nobody... just aberrations.... not statistically significant....  Cool
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #38 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:46pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:35pm:
It's not my quote, obviously.

I posted the link before.

Here it is again:

http://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-did-government-gun-buybacks-reduce-th...


If you read through it it is an opinion stat...that's all.
Tim Fisher...he worked for John Hitler so of course he will claim it is because of the buyback. The SSAA lady came back with similar to what I have said.

What I do see as true is fishers opening line. Stats are a load of crap and can be made to lean whatever way you like. I hate opinion stats.


First of all, it’s not possible to disentangle any effect of the gun buybacks from the rest of the gun reforms introduced at the same time.

Some researchers have concluded the reforms as a whole had little effect on reducing the number of gun deaths in Australia. But other researchers have concluded the reforms did have an effect.


Our corrupted gov had been pushing for gun restrictions for a very long time before PA. One could conclude that PA "had to happen" as one police officer was told at the time of the event.
As you are aware...I believe PA was not what we were told it was.
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Captain Caveman
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #39 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:47pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:40pm:
Australia is full of guns. Even I have a gun. It's easy to get a licence . You have to join a gun club and then you can buy guns like going to the supermarket.



But there are background checks at the time of license application. I know a few that have been knocked back.
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #40 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 6:30pm
 
Yh Quote:
   SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

IT'S A NO BRAINER!   



Funny how none of the pro gun law lobby ever consider this simple fact.

I have pictures of my various great grandparents camping in the bush
They all have guns, as did most Australians back then
With so many guns, isn't it amazing that mass murder didn't happen?

Probably because they were taught to use them and respect them.
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #41 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 6:43pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:47pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:40pm:
Australia is full of guns. Even I have a gun. It's easy to get a licence . You have to join a gun club and then you can buy guns like going to the supermarket.



But there are background checks at the time of license application. I know a few that have been knocked back.

If you have a few misdemeanour offences they'll generally give you a pass.
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #42 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:29pm
 
Show us all, the parallel between Australia, Switzerland, and the United States, as it applies to firearms.

Switzerland is a tiny, fabulously weathy, naturally defended, and socially cohesive mountain state. It has no social pressures.

The United States, built on social pressures, challenged and surpassed Europe during the industrial revolution. Australia was a tiny sheep raising backwater with no industry or influence on world affairs. It had no social pressures and no armed and warlike native tribes.

Gun violence in Australia during the 19th century was restricted to the use of primitive, antiquated, and obscelete cast off weapons from Europe and the USA. In surpassing Europe, the USA found itself in the most violent of circumstances, while being at the forefront of weapons design and manufacture. Its criminals and even its native tribes drew upon that industry.

And from that situation they have today, a society that is steeped in gun violence, and the paranoia that a proportion of the citizens believe the Democrats might try to take their guns away.
There is no comparison between Switzerland, the United States, and Australia. We have reasonable gun laws, and the American Democrats are not demanding anything more.

As for Australia, if we loosen gun laws, like the good old days that some people yurn for, just remember that we now legally  harbour people who would attack our institutions and ourselves. The idea that an armed populace will be able to counter such attacks, is completely irrational, and shows no understanding of society and history.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #43 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm
 
Valkie wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 6:30pm:
Yh Quote:
   SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

IT'S A NO BRAINER!   



Funny how none of the pro gun law lobby ever consider this simple fact.

I have pictures of my various great grandparents camping in the bush
They all have guns, as did most Australians back then
With so many guns, isn't it amazing that mass murder didn't happen?

Probably because they were taught to use them and respect them.


Apart from the numerous mass murders of indigenous Australians, you mean?

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Re: Note to Australians.. Hold onto your Guns...
Reply #44 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:35pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 5:40pm:
Australia is full of guns. Even I have a gun. It's easy to get a licence . You have to join a gun club and then you can buy guns like going to the supermarket.


Except you cannot give "self defence" as the reason on your license application, Hammer.

Nor can you purchase semi-automatic long-arms or pump-action shotguns.

You are limited to bolt-action, lever-action and pump-action long-arms or single/double barreled shotguns, more or less plus of course various pistol actions.

You are also required to regularly attend your firearms club's meetings/range shoots.

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