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First F-35 fighter jet crash (Read 7226 times)
Bobby
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First F-35 fighter jet crash
Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:57am
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/f35-crash-lockheed-martin-ligh...


First F-35 fighter jet crash:
Mystery fault forces pilot to eject over South Carolina


The stealth fighter jet was used by the United States in combat this week for the first time against Taliban in Afghanistan.

A US military fighter jet sent smoke billowing into the sky after it suffered the first crash in the aircraft’s operational history.

The pilot, who was the only person on board the Lockheed Martin F-35B, was being examined for injuries on Friday after safely ejecting.

The reason for the crash near the Marine Corps Air Station in Beaufort, South Carolina, is said to be under investigation.
Read more

    Israel becomes first country to use US-made F-35 stealth fighter

The aircraft, a short takeoff and landing version of the F-35, crashed just before 12pm local time.

It was the first crash of an F-35 fighter jet since the aircraft became operational in 2006, according to a military official who wished to remain anonymous.

The incident also marked the first time a pilot had ejected from an F-35B.

The F-35B stealth fighter jet was used by the United States in combat this week for the first time against the Taliban in Afghanistan, after taking off from an amphibious assault ship in the Arabian Sea.

Crash scene.
...



Israeli F-35 flying over Beirut.

...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #1 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am
 
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #2 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #3 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:04am
 
Hmm - and the first just flew on to the UK's latest carrier.... Britannia Rules The Waves!
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #4 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am
 

I blame Islam.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #5 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink



Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #6 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I blame Islam.




You got that right..... South Carolina is rife with them.... did you know that aerial photos of the South Carolina tidewater area shows that it is a meteor impact field filled with craters... hence the rivers and creeks and billabongs and such....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #7 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:18am
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I blame Islam.




You got that right.....




It's fighting Islam that has caused us to spend so much money on these fighter jets -
so yes - it's because of Islam.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #8 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:22am
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink



Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.

If I tell u, why would u buy the book..... I cant do that to the author Cheesy
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #9 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:25am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:22am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink



Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.

If I tell u, why would u buy the book..... I cant do that to the author Cheesy



Did Monk put you up to this?


...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #10 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:29am
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:18am:
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I blame Islam.




You got that right.....




It's fighting Islam that has caused us to spend so much money on these fighter jets -
so yes - it's because of Islam.

So your saying Australia wouldn't have a Airforce if Islam wasn't militant ? Cheesy
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #11 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:39am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:29am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:18am:
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I blame Islam.




You got that right.....




It's fighting Islam that has caused us to spend so much money on these fighter jets -
so yes - it's because of Islam.

So your saying Australia wouldn't have a Airforce if Islam wasn't militant ? Cheesy



That's right - we will only ever fight Islamic militants with these jets.
Israel has already used them to bomb targets in Syria
although they were Syrian Govt. targets.



https://www.businessinsider.com.au/israels-f-35s-saw-combat-in-syrian-air-war-th...

Israel's F-35s reportedly saw combat in a raging Syrian air war that smashed Russian defences
Alex Lockie
May 23, 2018, 12:50 AM
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #12 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:58am
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:25am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:22am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink



Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.

If I tell u, why would u buy the book..... I cant do that to the author Cheesy



Did Monk put you up to this?


http://www.ozpolitic.com/yabbfiles/avatars/UserAvatars/DonDeeHippy.jpg

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Tongue Roll Eyes
I forgot about the picture as u cant see it on this forum..... so it took u 3 months to notice it.... HAL would be disappointed.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #13 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:02am
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:39am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:29am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:18am:
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I blame Islam.




You got that right.....




It's fighting Islam that has caused us to spend so much money on these fighter jets -
so yes - it's because of Islam.

So your saying Australia wouldn't have a Airforce if Islam wasn't militant ? Cheesy



That's right - we will only ever fight Islamic militants with these jets.
Israel has already used them to bomb targets in Syria
although they were Syrian Govt. targets.



https://www.businessinsider.com.au/israels-f-35s-saw-combat-in-syrian-air-war-th...

Israel's F-35s reportedly saw combat in a raging Syrian air war that smashed Russian defences
Alex Lockie
May 23, 2018, 12:50 AM

ahh and only fight those Islamic that r hoarding oil...…..
We tend to ignore all the other oppressive governments out there.
The only time we had to defend our country was it Islam Bobby ? Wink
Our closest neighbour that r slaughtering ppl is a Buddhist country , we wont help those that r being slaughtered ?
No oil i guess Cheesy
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Bobby
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #14 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:20am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:58am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:25am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:22am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink



Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.

If I tell u, why would u buy the book..... I cant do that to the author Cheesy



Did Monk put you up to this?


http://www.ozpolitic.com/yabbfiles/avatars/UserAvatars/DonDeeHippy.jpg

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Tongue Roll Eyes
I forgot about the picture as u cant see it on this forum..... so it took u 3 months to notice it.... HAL would be disappointed.



I noticed it at Monk's sewer site & then saw it here.
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #15 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:23am
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:20am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:58am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:25am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:22am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink



Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.

If I tell u, why would u buy the book..... I cant do that to the author Cheesy



Did Monk put you up to this?


http://www.ozpolitic.com/yabbfiles/avatars/UserAvatars/DonDeeHippy.jpg

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Tongue Roll Eyes
I forgot about the picture as u cant see it on this forum..... so it took u 3 months to notice it.... HAL would be disappointed.



I noticed it at Monk's sewer site & then saw it here.

yes well u wouldn't see it at FD's sewer site would ya  Cheesy
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #16 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:26am
 
Thanks - Monk's puppet - for taking an important thread off topic.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #17 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:26am
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/f35-crash-lockheed-martin-ligh...


First F-35 fighter jet crash:
Mystery fault forces pilot to eject over South Carolina


The stealth fighter jet was used by the United States in combat this week for the first time against Taliban in Afghanistan.

A US military fighter jet sent smoke billowing into the sky after it suffered the first crash in the aircraft’s operational history.

The pilot, who was the only person on board the Lockheed Martin F-35B, was being examined for injuries on Friday after safely ejecting.

The reason for the crash near the Marine Corps Air Station in Beaufort, South Carolina, is said to be under investigation.
Read more

    Israel becomes first country to use US-made F-35 stealth fighter

The aircraft, a short takeoff and landing version of the F-35, crashed just before 12pm local time.

It was the first crash of an F-35 fighter jet since the aircraft became operational in 2006, according to a military official who wished to remain anonymous.

The incident also marked the first time a pilot had ejected from an F-35B.

The F-35B stealth fighter jet was used by the United States in combat this week for the first time against the Taliban in Afghanistan, after taking off from an amphibious assault ship in the Arabian Sea.

Crash scene.
...



Israeli F-35 flying over Beirut.

...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #18 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:31am
 
really glad no one killed.....

when the pilot ejects... the plane is left to crash into god knows where I presume     Angry Angry
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #19 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:35am
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:02am:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:59am:
It was just on TV now.
Many buyers such as Australia are very worried by this crash.
That's $100 million up in smoke.

yes another one could crash in 12 years time...…. Wink



Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.

who was it that took this off topic Bobby  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
(maybe u should of brought this up in Relations MRB)
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #20 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:37am
 
cods wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:31am:
really glad no one killed.....

when the pilot ejects... the plane is left to crash into god knows where I presume     Angry Angry

just like every plane in the sky with a ejection seat  Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #21 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:57am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:37am:
cods wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:31am:
really glad no one killed.....

when the pilot ejects... the plane is left to crash into god knows where I presume     Angry Angry

just like every plane in the sky with a ejection seat  Wink




how many have you been on    with one of those? Smiley
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #22 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 11:14am
 
cods wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:57am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:37am:
cods wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:31am:
really glad no one killed.....

when the pilot ejects... the plane is left to crash into god knows where I presume     Angry Angry

just like every plane in the sky with a ejection seat  Wink




how many have you been on    with one of those? Smiley


was years ago but around 10, and worked around them a lot.
They can really mess up anyone that has to use them.

Pilots get special wrist watch hat give way so their hands don't get ripped off if they catch on something.
I had a friend about 6ft 2in that lost 2 inches in height after using one... was in hospital about 4 months.
Though if only one plane in 12 years has gone down and over friendly space that's pretty good.
Also the USA air force r known for poor maintenance so 12 years is amazing really Smiley
When we bought second hand F111 off of USA they found whole Toolboxes left in the planes in the body work for example.

This accident its not known if pilot error or Maintenance error or Manufacturer error, until then its just a alarmist piece  Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #23 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 12:59pm
 
you work for defence then?..
thats interesting....

not many people would have ev er had that experience....

It would not sit well with any country to lose aircraft and possibly pilots in peace time..

I find it hard to believe America wouldnt look after and maintain  its airplanes.... Angry

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #24 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 1:05pm
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:26am:
Thanks - Monk's puppet - for taking an important thread off topic.


That's the sort of false accusation Agnes posts.  Who posted this Bobby:

Quote:
Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.


Shocked
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #25 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 1:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 1:05pm:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:26am:
Thanks - Monk's puppet - for taking an important thread off topic.


That's the sort of false accusation Agnes posts.  Who posted this Bobby:

Quote:
Who's little Bobby & why is he drunk?
That's just the sort of silly picture Monk would post.


Shocked




hi Aussie,
any comment about the first F-35 fighter jet crash?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #26 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 1:46pm
 
No, you have made all the clever not obvious ones.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #27 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 2:10pm
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 1:46pm:
No, you have made all the clever not obvious ones.



I'm glad you appreciate my cleverness.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #28 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 5:37pm
 
It’s only a fluff piece anyway, no mention of the cause, so not really a important thread
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #29 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:53pm
 
We lost more that a few f-111s and their pilots in peace time. They were a fantastic aircraft and it was sad to see them go. We have nothing like them anymore and the f-35 will not fill their role.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #30 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:38pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:53pm:
We lost more that a few f-111s and their pilots in peace time. They were a fantastic aircraft and it was sad to see them go. We have nothing like them anymore and the f-35 will not fill their role.



True - but the F35 is a stealth aircraft so it's hard to pick up on radars
whereas the F111 could be seen from 100s of miles away.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #31 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:48pm
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:38pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 8:53pm:
We lost more that a few f-111s and their pilots in peace time. They were a fantastic aircraft and it was sad to see them go. We have nothing like them anymore and the f-35 will not fill their role.



True - but the F35 is a stealth aircraft so it's hard to pick up on radars
whereas the F111 could be seen from 100s of miles away.


And?? What has that got to do with your crash post? The F-111 had more than it's share of ill fortune but was an outstanding aircraft. I'm sorry it was taken out of service, there were more than enough spares in Arizona for it to fly another decade or more.
...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #32 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:05pm
 
Hi CC,
the F111 couldn't survive the modern battlefield.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f35-stealth-fighters-in-c...


F-35 stealth fighters in combat for the first time


THE defeat of a Russian air defence weapon in Syria may now have a cause: Israel has revealed it has unleashed its F-35 strike fighters for the first time.
Jamie Seidel
News Corp Australia NetworkMay 24, 20189:18pm


SYRIA insisted it could defend itself. Russia said it had provided the means.
But Israel’s air strikes have been spectacularly successful. Now we know why.

Israel’s air force commander has said recent strikes against Iranian targets in and around the Syrian capital of Damascus were conducted by the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter.

It’s the first time the new combat jet has gone into action anywhere in the world.

“The F-35 squadron has become an operational squadron,” Major General Amikam Norkin told Haaretz earlier this week.

“We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East and have already attacked twice on two different fronts.”

Israel has dubbed its version of the F-35 the “Adir” (meaning ‘mighty one’).


Haarets says it has seen images of the F-35 flying over Beirut in Lebanon. It also says Major Norkin said the stealth fighter did not participate in the most recent air raids last week. But it did during the previous two.

The newspaper says more than 100 missiles have been fired — in vain — by Syrian air defences.

It’s an indication the F-35 is coming out on top in its battle against Russian-built defences.

RUSSIAN AGAINST US TECHNOLOGY

The prospect of the F-35 flying through some of Syria’s most defended air space raises the likelihood that it has faced some of Russia’s best export weaponry — and defeated it.

Damascus is one of the most heavily protected cities in the world.

It’s armed with a variety of missile systems — both new and old — by its ally, Russia.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #33 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:42pm
 
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Hi CC,
the F111 couldn't survive the modern battlefield.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f35-stealth-fighters-in-c...


F-35 stealth fighters in combat for the first time


THE defeat of a Russian air defence weapon in Syria may now have a cause: Israel has revealed it has unleashed its F-35 strike fighters for the first time.
Jamie Seidel
News Corp Australia NetworkMay 24, 20189:18pm


SYRIA insisted it could defend itself. Russia said it had provided the means.
But Israel’s air strikes have been spectacularly successful. Now we know why.

Israel’s air force commander has said recent strikes against Iranian targets in and around the Syrian capital of Damascus were conducted by the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter.

It’s the first time the new combat jet has gone into action anywhere in the world.

“The F-35 squadron has become an operational squadron,” Major General Amikam Norkin told Haaretz earlier this week.

“We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East and have already attacked twice on two different fronts.”

Israel has dubbed its version of the F-35 the “Adir” (meaning ‘mighty one’).


Haarets says it has seen images of the F-35 flying over Beirut in Lebanon. It also says Major Norkin said the stealth fighter did not participate in the most recent air raids last week. But it did during the previous two.

The newspaper says more than 100 missiles have been fired — in vain — by Syrian air defences.

It’s an indication the F-35 is coming out on top in its battle against Russian-built defences.

RUSSIAN AGAINST US TECHNOLOGY

The prospect of the F-35 flying through some of Syria’s most defended air space raises the likelihood that it has faced some of Russia’s best export weaponry — and defeated it.

Damascus is one of the most heavily protected cities in the world.

It’s armed with a variety of missile systems — both new and old — by its ally, Russia.


Yes it could if it was used in it's primary role as an under the radar strike aircraft. It was called the "Pig" for a reason. It could fly from Darwin to Jakarta and back under the radar. I was blessed to watch the F-111 doing terrain following around Kyogle. Magnificent aircraft.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #34 - Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:55pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:42pm:
Yes it could if it was used in it's primary role as an under the radar strike aircraft. It was called the "Pig" for a reason. It could fly from Darwin to Jakarta and back under the radar. I was blessed to watch the F-111 doing terrain following around Kyogle. Magnificent aircraft.



It sure was a magnificent aircraft.
For the cost of a a couple of F35s they probably could have kept a whole squadron
of F111s in service for a long time.
It would have been money better spent.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #35 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:17am
 
hear hear and we should of kept the Canberra bombers and some mustangs as well, and refurnished a few sopwith camels too  Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #36 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:09am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:17am:
hear hear and we should of kept the Canberra bombers and some mustangs as well, and refurnished a few sopwith camels too  Wink



Don't be such a smart arse.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #37 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:34am
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:09am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:17am:
hear hear and we should of kept the Canberra bombers and some mustangs as well, and refurnished a few sopwith camels too  Wink



Don't be such a smart arse.

well don't be such a dumm ass

F111's as a plane where great for their day... which was about 50 years ago, …….. if u had to personally go into battle Bobby and put your life on the line would u rather be in a F111 or a F35 ?
if u want our pilots to be in F111 instead maybe it's u that need a good hanging Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #38 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:48am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:34am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:09am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:17am:
hear hear and we should of kept the Canberra bombers and some mustangs as well, and refurnished a few sopwith camels too  Wink



Don't be such a smart arse.

well don't be such a dumm ass

F111's as a plane where great for their day... which was about 50 years ago, …….. if u had to personally go into battle Bobby and put your life on the line would u rather be in a F111 or a F35 ?
if u want our pilots to be in F111 instead maybe it's u that need a good hanging Cheesy Cheesy



But a  sopwith camel?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #39 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:56am
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:48am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:34am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:09am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:17am:
hear hear and we should of kept the Canberra bombers and some mustangs as well, and refurnished a few sopwith camels too  Wink



Don't be such a smart arse.

well don't be such a dumm ass

F111's as a plane where great for their day... which was about 50 years ago, …….. if u had to personally go into battle Bobby and put your life on the line would u rather be in a F111 or a F35 ?
if u want our pilots to be in F111 instead maybe it's u that need a good hanging Cheesy Cheesy



But a  sopwith camel?

well if u want to send our pilots to war in a old plane , might as well be a camel.... at least when they get shot down it wont cost us Millions..... It's all about the money isn't it Bobby ? Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #40 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:06am
 
It is important to have first class front line aircraft to defend our Country

Never take your freedom for granted

There are many jealous Countries that look at our vast expanse of Country with natural riches and they look  at it with envy

I don't and have never trusted Indonesia

That was why we bought the F-1-11s because  they could fly to Indonesia drop a payload and be able to make the return trip  ( served in the R.A.A.F. for 6 years)
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #41 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:28am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:56am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:48am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:34am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:09am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:17am:
hear hear and we should of kept the Canberra bombers and some mustangs as well, and refurnished a few sopwith camels too  Wink



Don't be such a smart arse.

well don't be such a dumm ass

F111's as a plane where great for their day... which was about 50 years ago, …….. if u had to personally go into battle Bobby and put your life on the line would u rather be in a F111 or a F35 ?
if u want our pilots to be in F111 instead maybe it's u that need a good hanging Cheesy Cheesy



But a  sopwith camel?

well if u want to send our pilots to war in a old plane , might as well be a camel.... at least when they get shot down it wont cost us Millions..... It's all about the money isn't it Bobby ? Wink


You don't know what you're talking about.
The F111s were upgraded to be modern.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #42 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:29am
 
red baron wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:06am:
It is important to have first class front line aircraft to defend our Country

Never take your freedom for granted

There are many jealous Countries that look at our vast expanse of Country with natural riches and they look  at it with envy

I don't and have never trusted Indonesia

That was why we bought the F-1-11s because  they could fly to Indonesia drop a payload and be able to make the return trip  ( served in the R.A.A.F. for 6 years)


Well said - we have lost that capability now.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #43 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:27am
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:28am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:56am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:48am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:34am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:09am:
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:17am:
hear hear and we should of kept the Canberra bombers and some mustangs as well, and refurnished a few sopwith camels too  Wink



Don't be such a smart arse.

well don't be such a dumm ass

F111's as a plane where great for their day... which was about 50 years ago, …….. if u had to personally go into battle Bobby and put your life on the line would u rather be in a F111 or a F35 ?
if u want our pilots to be in F111 instead maybe it's u that need a good hanging Cheesy Cheesy



But a  sopwith camel?

well if u want to send our pilots to war in a old plane , might as well be a camel.... at least when they get shot down it wont cost us Millions..... It's all about the money isn't it Bobby ? Wink


You don't know what you're talking about.
The F111s were upgraded to be modern.

U mean when we made them in F111c "s.... In the eighties...…...ALmost 40 years ago and I think the last upgrades they did where in the 90's so 30 years ago...…… not really modern and I think they decided to scrap them when the yanks scraped theirs and ours where snapping off wings and such
There r no new strike planes like the F111 unfortunately but that cant be a excuse to use a old plane.
Again if u went to war would u rather be in a F111 or a F35 ? Wink
as red said , we want to best and unfortunately the F111 is just to old ,although I think them and the tomcat r the best looking fighters the yanks ever made. Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #44 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:55am
 
Hippy,
The yanks are still using the B52s.
It depends on any metal fatigue
which can be measured.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #45 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:01am
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:55am:
Hippy,
The yanks are still using the B52s.
It depends on any metal fatigue
which can be measured.

and they just fly high and drop bomb's not enter combat.….
The F111 is a strike fighter... how many of them do the yanks still use ?
Beside the aardvarks have been decommissioned about 15 years I think, its a no where argument :0 they will never come back, just like the mustang and camels..... Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #46 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:37am
 
The pilot of an F35 just watches a computer screen, any error messages, he just bails out, no time to do anything else
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #47 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:40am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:37am:
The pilot of an F35 just watches a computer screen, any error messages, he just bails out, no time to do anything else

and thankfully only one has had to do that in 12 years  Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #48 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:52am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:01am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:55am:
Hippy,
The yanks are still using the B52s.
It depends on any metal fatigue
which can be measured.

and they just fly high and drop bomb's not enter combat.….
The F111 is a strike fighter... how many of them do the yanks still use ?
Beside the aardvarks have been decommissioned about 15 years I think, its a no where argument :0 they will never come back, just like the mustang and camels..... Wink


You have  a point.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #49 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:55am
 
DonDeeHippy wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:40am:
Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:37am:
The pilot of an F35 just watches a computer screen, any error messages, he just bails out, no time to do anything else

and thankfully only one has had to do that in 12 years  Wink



Yep, it's safe enough for the RAAF to have a quota of female fighter pilots now, it still a mens' club flying fighter jets   Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #50 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 12:05pm
 
The F35s is pretty much directed at Russia and China.  We really dont  need F35s to combat ISIS or Taliban.  We have much less costing armed drones for those.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #51 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 12:12pm
 
This is probably a better option for us considering we still don't have any aircraft carrier to launch them from.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #52 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 1:21pm
 
I read, somewhere, that the F-35 is likely to be the last manned US fighter plane. Of course there will still be manned aircraft, just not in that capacity.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #53 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 4:43pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 12:12pm:
This is probably a better option for us considering we still don't have any aircraft carrier to launch them from.




Hi Nail,
it's all about us being able operate with the Yanks in an F35 team.
We need F35s to do that.
Each plane pilot can see what another pilot is seeing.
The technology is amazing.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #54 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 5:01pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 12:12pm:
This is probably a better option for us considering we still don't have any aircraft carrier to launch them from.


Actually, we have two - HMAS CANBERRA and HMAS ADELAIDE.  While neither is equipped for the sustained operation of fixed wing aircraft with V/STOL capabilities, they could, in an emergency be used to operate such aircraft if Australia was ever to decide to purchase such an aircraft.   While the CANBERRA class are designed as amphibious warfare ships, they do have a flight deck with a ski-jump on the bow.  They could not operate CTOL aircraft as there is no provision in them for arrester gear to stop them once they land on the flight deck.


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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #55 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:05pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I blame Islam.



And it's common knowledge you're a tool.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #56 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:29pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 12:05pm:
The F35s is pretty much directed at Russia and China.  We really dont  need F35s to combat ISIS or Taliban.  We have much less costing armed drones for those.   


We won't need F35s for Russia or China ... more like the peril just to our north that we keep giving money to hand over fist.

And the F35s are years behind schedule & have been a bottomless pit for expense with questionable fighter capability and poor range.

Quote:
After years of delays and cost blow-outs, the controversial Joint Strike Fighter has arrived on Australian soil for the first time.


Quote:
Their debut in Australia comes 15 years after the Federal Government first announced that Australia would participate in the "system development and demonstration phase" of the US-led Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter program.


Quote:
The Federal Government is preparing to spend $17 billion on 72 F-35 aircraft, with the first expected to be delivered to Australia in 2018 and enter service in 2020.


It will be over $17billion & still 2 years away from them actually being in service.

I'd say they are more likely than not to become the lemons their critics have already said they are.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-27/joint-strike-fighters-f35-land-in-australi...

Yeah who cares about the cost hey Hippie head?  Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #57 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm
 
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #58 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:45pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm:
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Much like your pretense of all knowledge ey? DH.

BTW Noddy since when have our politicians been experts on defense.

Like all the experts on the Collins Class Sub fiasco?  Grin
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #59 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 7:12pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm:
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Much like your pretense of all knowledge ey? DH.

BTW Noddy since when have our politicians been experts on defense.

Like all the experts on the Collins Class Sub fiasco?  Grin


*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The COLLINS class are still one of the largest, quietest, conventional submarines in service around the world.  For a first effort at Submarine building, they are not as bad as the media as portrayed them as.  The British BTW, the world's experts at design and submarine construction,  and welded a hull section on, upside down on their nuclear attack class of submarines,  the USA, had to scrap an entire boat on the stocks 'cause the welds were done incorrectly.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #60 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:42pm:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Hi CC,
the F111 couldn't survive the modern battlefield.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f35-stealth-fighters-in-c...


F-35 stealth fighters in combat for the first time


THE defeat of a Russian air defence weapon in Syria may now have a cause: Israel has revealed it has unleashed its F-35 strike fighters for the first time.
Jamie Seidel
News Corp Australia NetworkMay 24, 20189:18pm


SYRIA insisted it could defend itself. Russia said it had provided the means.
But Israel’s air strikes have been spectacularly successful. Now we know why.

Israel’s air force commander has said recent strikes against Iranian targets in and around the Syrian capital of Damascus were conducted by the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter.

It’s the first time the new combat jet has gone into action anywhere in the world.

“The F-35 squadron has become an operational squadron,” Major General Amikam Norkin told Haaretz earlier this week.

“We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East and have already attacked twice on two different fronts.”

Israel has dubbed its version of the F-35 the “Adir” (meaning ‘mighty one’).


Haarets says it has seen images of the F-35 flying over Beirut in Lebanon. It also says Major Norkin said the stealth fighter did not participate in the most recent air raids last week. But it did during the previous two.

The newspaper says more than 100 missiles have been fired — in vain — by Syrian air defences.

It’s an indication the F-35 is coming out on top in its battle against Russian-built defences.

RUSSIAN AGAINST US TECHNOLOGY

The prospect of the F-35 flying through some of Syria’s most defended air space raises the likelihood that it has faced some of Russia’s best export weaponry — and defeated it.

Damascus is one of the most heavily protected cities in the world.

It’s armed with a variety of missile systems — both new and old — by its ally, Russia.


Yes it could if it was used in it's primary role as an under the radar strike aircraft. It was called the "Pig" for a reason. It could fly from Darwin to Jakarta and back under the radar. I was blessed to watch the F-111 doing terrain following around Kyogle. Magnificent aircraft.


"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #61 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #62 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:42pm:
Bobby wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Hi CC,
the F111 couldn't survive the modern battlefield.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f35-stealth-fighters-in-c...


F-35 stealth fighters in combat for the first time


THE defeat of a Russian air defence weapon in Syria may now have a cause: Israel has revealed it has unleashed its F-35 strike fighters for the first time.
Jamie Seidel
News Corp Australia NetworkMay 24, 20189:18pm


SYRIA insisted it could defend itself. Russia said it had provided the means.
But Israel’s air strikes have been spectacularly successful. Now we know why.

Israel’s air force commander has said recent strikes against Iranian targets in and around the Syrian capital of Damascus were conducted by the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter.

It’s the first time the new combat jet has gone into action anywhere in the world.

“The F-35 squadron has become an operational squadron,” Major General Amikam Norkin told Haaretz earlier this week.

“We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East and have already attacked twice on two different fronts.”

Israel has dubbed its version of the F-35 the “Adir” (meaning ‘mighty one’).


Haarets says it has seen images of the F-35 flying over Beirut in Lebanon. It also says Major Norkin said the stealth fighter did not participate in the most recent air raids last week. But it did during the previous two.

The newspaper says more than 100 missiles have been fired — in vain — by Syrian air defences.

It’s an indication the F-35 is coming out on top in its battle against Russian-built defences.

RUSSIAN AGAINST US TECHNOLOGY

The prospect of the F-35 flying through some of Syria’s most defended air space raises the likelihood that it has faced some of Russia’s best export weaponry — and defeated it.

Damascus is one of the most heavily protected cities in the world.

It’s armed with a variety of missile systems — both new and old — by its ally, Russia.


Yes it could if it was used in it's primary role as an under the radar strike aircraft. It was called the "Pig" for a reason. It could fly from Darwin to Jakarta and back under the radar. I was blessed to watch the F-111 doing terrain following around Kyogle. Magnificent aircraft.


"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.


True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #63 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #64 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:03pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?


I don't know, maybe our ships do, but we should and the F-111 hasd the payload capacity to carry them.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #65 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:05pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:03pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?


I don't know, maybe our ships do, but we should and the F-111 hasd the payload capacity to carry them.



We'd have to design our own.
I don't know if we're that smart.
I doubt the Yanks would sell us any Tomahawk cruise missiles
even though they are 1980s technology.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #66 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:05pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:03pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?


I don't know, maybe our ships do, but we should and the F-111 hasd the payload capacity to carry them.



We'd have to design our own.
I don't know if we're that smart.
I doubt the Yanks would sell us any Tomahawk cruise missiles
even though they are 1980s technology.


They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #67 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:20pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm:
They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.





And I think it's more than that -
the Tomahawk uses satellite information to allow
a type of terrain following radar system plus GPS.
We don't have the satellite info & during times of war
the GPS info has a deliberate random error put into it.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #68 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:20pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm:
They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.





And I think it's more than that -
the Tomahawk uses satellite information to allow
a type of terrain following radar system plus GPS.
We don't have the satellite info & during times of war
the GPS info has a deliberate random error put into it.


We use their GPS now though. That's not a problem unless we dump them as allies. Do you think China and Russia rely on US GPS?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #69 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:42pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:33pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:20pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm:
They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.





And I think it's more than that -
the Tomahawk uses satellite information to allow
a type of terrain following radar system plus GPS.
We don't have the satellite info & during times of war
the GPS info has a deliberate random error put into it.


We use their GPS now though. That's not a problem unless we dump them as allies. Do you think China and Russia rely on US GPS?


I think China & Russia have their own GPS satellites.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #70 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #71 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #72 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:32pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.




The Tornados went in at low level before all the SAM sites were taken out and were hit by AAA.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #73 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:46pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:32pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.




The Tornados went in at low level before all the SAM sites were taken out and were hit by AAA.


The 117s were supposed to destroy the AA radar. They were sent in first. To equate a Tornado with an F-111 that would need air bound radar to detect it as it could fly a couple of 100ft off the ground... I've had them fly over me. They used to do terrain following over the hills around Kyogle.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #74 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:02pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:46pm:
The 117s were supposed to destroy the AA radar. They were sent in first. To equate a Tornado with an F-111 that would need air bound radar to detect it as it could fly a couple of 100ft off the ground... I've had them fly over me. They used to do terrain following over the hills around Kyogle.





True -

That aside -
the problem with the F35s will be the requirement for air tankers.
They are easy to spot on radar and would lead enemy planes straight to our F35s.
If the air tanker are shot down the F35s will run out of fuel
and end up ditched in the sea or wherever.
It's a major weakness.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #75 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:04pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:02pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:46pm:
The 117s were supposed to destroy the AA radar. They were sent in first. To equate a Tornado with an F-111 that would need air bound radar to detect it as it could fly a couple of 100ft off the ground... I've had them fly over me. They used to do terrain following over the hills around Kyogle.





True -

That aside -
the problem with the F35s will be the requirement for air tankers.
They are easy to spot on radar and would lead enemy planes straight to our F35s.
If the air tanker are shot down the F35s will run out of fuel
and end up ditched in the sea or wherever.
It's a major weakness.


Yep, one missile hit from the ground or air and our range is crippled.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #76 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 7:45am
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:04pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:02pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:46pm:
The 117s were supposed to destroy the AA radar. They were sent in first. To equate a Tornado with an F-111 that would need air bound radar to detect it as it could fly a couple of 100ft off the ground... I've had them fly over me. They used to do terrain following over the hills around Kyogle.





True -

That aside -
the problem with the F35s will be the requirement for air tankers.
They are easy to spot on radar and would lead enemy planes straight to our F35s.
If the air tanker are shot down the F35s will run out of fuel
and end up ditched in the sea or wherever.
It's a major weakness.


Yep, one missile hit from the ground or air and our range is crippled.


yup and 1 missile to the base and no planes at all  Wink Wink Wink
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #77 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:23am
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.



They are actually.

Both the Tornado and the F-111 are swing wing aircraft designed for low level strike missions with automated terrain following radar. They were both designed to do pretty much the same thing.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #78 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:32pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.




The Tornados went in at low level before all the SAM sites were taken out and were hit by AAA.


And that's part of the problem. In any modern conflict against a parallel power you're extremely unlikely to get all the SAMs taken out.

You're also unlikely to get all the enemy fighters. One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #79 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.


Luck or the lack of it, invariably plays a huge part in combat and in particular air combat.  All that is needed is a second's inattention or distraction in the cockpit and the plane you are flying could be toast.   Air combat occurs less frequently now, than in WWII or WWI but the same problems still apply.  "Beware the Hun in the Sun," was coined because it was true - the Luftwaffe used to use the position of the sun to hide their aircraft and creep up on their intended victims.  Pilots that do not check their six and look sunwards will be bounced by enemy aircraft.

The F-35 addresses this.  Partly by using stealth to become nearly invisible to enemy radars and partly through the use of EO (Electro-Optical) systems which allow the aircraft to detect approaching missiles and allows the pilot to "look through" the aircraft to quarters that would normally be invisible to him.  No other aircraft in production at the moment has this facility, only the F-35 possesses it.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.

The RAAF because it has an urgent need for a replacement for it's aged fleet of F/A-18A/Bs needs to purchase the F-35.  Unfortunately, it needs to do so early in the production run of the aircraft, when it is more expensive to purchase them than later in the production run when it would be cheaper to buy them ("economies of scale" produce that effect).   If instead of purchasing the F/A-18A/Bs replacement in one job lot it spread the purchase out over a decade, the prices would fall dramatically.  However, that is not how the ADF operates unfortunately.

Will the F-35 always be superior to Russian/Chinese/Swedish/European aircraft?  More than likely not.  In 20 years there will be other, newer aircraft on the market.  However, we cannot wait 20 years for our replacement aircraft - nor would we necessarily get the other newer aircraft as cheap as we are getting the F-35.  Our membership in the US alliance assures us of cheaper FMS (Foreign Military Sales) prices which are significantly cheaper than what are paid commercially for military products.  It is the one good thing about being closely allied to the US IMO.

So, think about the now, children, not the future.   NOW we need a replacement fighter-bomber, which will replace the F/A-18A/Bs we presently operate and enhance the capabilities of the RAAF.   We cannot afford to wait.  Simples really.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #80 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:57pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:13am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 9:08am:
I blame Islam.




You got that right..... South Carolina is rife with them.... did you know that aerial photos of the South Carolina tidewater area shows that it is a meteor impact field filled with craters... hence the rivers and creeks and billabongs and such....





Billabongs aren't formed from meteor impacts.  They are an Australian term for oxbow lake.
This picture of the Nowitna River, Alaska shows two oxbow lakes – a short one at the bottom of the picture and a longer, more curved one at the middle-right. Furthermore, it can be clearly seen how a third oxbow lake is in the making. The isthmus or bank in the centre of the most prominent meander is very narrow- much narrower than the width of the river. Eventually, the two sections of river on either side of the isthmus break through, and create a new, straighter course. A new river bank then starts to accumulate, sealing off the meander and leaving another oxbow lake.
An oxbow lake is a U-shaped lake that forms when a wide meander from the main stem of a river is cut off, creating a free-standing body of water. This landform is so named for its distinctive curved shape, which resembles the bow pin of an oxbow. I
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #81 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:05pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 7:12pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm:
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Much like your pretense of all knowledge ey? DH.

BTW Noddy since when have our politicians been experts on defense.

Like all the experts on the Collins Class Sub fiasco?  Grin


*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The COLLINS class are still one of the largest, quietest, conventional submarines in service around the world.  For a first effort at Submarine building, they are not as bad as the media as portrayed them as.  The British BTW, the world's experts at design and submarine construction,  and welded a hull section on, upside down on their nuclear attack class of submarines,  the USA, had to scrap an entire boat on the stocks 'cause the welds were done incorrectly.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Their ongoing failings & constant upgrade requirements which saw them out of action for long periods make them on a par in the respective time frame as being bottomless money pits.

As for not knowing ones arse from ones elbow I'll take that as being advice from an expert in that dept.  Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #82 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.


Luck or the lack of it, invariably plays a huge part in combat and in particular air combat.  All that is needed is a second's inattention or distraction in the cockpit and the plane you are flying could be toast.   Air combat occurs less frequently now, than in WWII or WWI but the same problems still apply.  "Beware the Hun in the Sun," was coined because it was true - the Luftwaffe used to use the position of the sun to hide their aircraft and creep up on their intended victims.  Pilots that do not check their six and look sunwards will be bounced by enemy aircraft.

The F-35 addresses this.  Partly by using stealth to become nearly invisible to enemy radars and partly through the use of EO (Electro-Optical) systems which allow the aircraft to detect approaching missiles and allows the pilot to "look through" the aircraft to quarters that would normally be invisible to him.  No other aircraft in production at the moment has this facility, only the F-35 possesses it.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.

The RAAF because it has an urgent need for a replacement for it's aged fleet of F/A-18A/Bs needs to purchase the F-35.  Unfortunately, it needs to do so early in the production run of the aircraft, when it is more expensive to purchase them than later in the production run when it would be cheaper to buy them ("economies of scale" produce that effect).   If instead of purchasing the F/A-18A/Bs replacement in one job lot it spread the purchase out over a decade, the prices would fall dramatically.  However, that is not how the ADF operates unfortunately.

Will the F-35 always be superior to Russian/Chinese/Swedish/European aircraft?  More than likely not.  In 20 years there will be other, newer aircraft on the market.  However, we cannot wait 20 years for our replacement aircraft - nor would we necessarily get the other newer aircraft as cheap as we are getting the F-35.  Our membership in the US alliance assures us of cheaper FMS (Foreign Military Sales) prices which are significantly cheaper than what are paid commercially for military products.  It is the one good thing about being closely allied to the US IMO.

So, think about the now, children, not the future.   NOW we need a replacement fighter-bomber, which will replace the F/A-18A/Bs we presently operate and enhance the capabilities of the RAAF.   We cannot afford to wait.  Simples really.


Oh dear what a dill ....

15 years we have been involved in the F35 program

we signed for 48 under LABOR & now 72 with the LNP ...

we got one or two testers last year & one or two 2018...

won't see a operational unit until after 2022.

So much for we what we need now ... putz. Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #83 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:23pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 7:12pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm:
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Much like your pretense of all knowledge ey? DH.

BTW Noddy since when have our politicians been experts on defense.

Like all the experts on the Collins Class Sub fiasco?  Grin


*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The COLLINS class are still one of the largest, quietest, conventional submarines in service around the world.  For a first effort at Submarine building, they are not as bad as the media as portrayed them as.  The British BTW, the world's experts at design and submarine construction,  and welded a hull section on, upside down on their nuclear attack class of submarines,  the USA, had to scrap an entire boat on the stocks 'cause the welds were done incorrectly.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Their ongoing failings & constant upgrade requirements which saw them out of action for long periods make them on a par in the respective time frame as being bottomless money pits.

As for not knowing ones arse from ones elbow I'll take that as being advice from an expert in that dept.  Roll Eyes


The problem with the COLLINS class is that we don't have enough crews for them.  The RAN cannot keep the crews trained and onboard the boats for long enough.  Now the mining boom is well and truly over, that may change.  The RAN found they were training their crews to only have them piss off to the mines where they got four times the wage.

The COLLINS class have actually been an excellent boat, when in service.  They are one of the largest, quietest submarines in service today.   We did a good deal (note, not an excellent one, Kokums tried to do the dirty on us at one point) and we did an adequate job (not a great job) building them.  The RAN stuffed up in the contract they used to pay for the submarines which is why they ended up with inadequate control systems.   Those have now been replaced and updated.   

While they did not end up as quiet as originally envisaged, they were still far better than the ignorant media portrayed them to be.  The problem was the Labor Government decided to retrench a large number of middle-ranking naval officers, many of whom had been involved in the building of the COLLINS class.  Embittered they were willing to spill the beans to the media and the media (read Murdoch) was only too willing to publish anything embarrassing to Labor.   They are significantly quieter their predecessors (the OBERON class) and significantly quieter than comparable nuclear powered submarines.  They are simply not "twice as quiet" as the OBERON classes as originally specified.


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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #84 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.


Agreed. A 1960s vintage F-111 isn't going to do the job these days.

Despite a problematic development, the F-35 is coming good. Just like the F-111 did back in the late 60s
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #85 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:50pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Oh dear what a dill ....

15 years we have been involved in the F35 program

we signed for 48 under LABOR & now 72 with the LNP ...

we got one or two testers last year & one or two 2018...

won't see a operational unit until after 2022.

So much for we what we need now ... putz. Roll Eyes


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  I suppose we should have just dropped into the corner shop and bought a new fighter-bomber off the shelf?  In reality, what happened was the US suggested we might like to become involved in the development and manufacture of a new aircraft and therefore we could buy it at a reduced price.  The Australian Government accepted and we placed an initial order for 48 and then later an increased order for up to 72 aircraft. These are not things you buy off the shelf, if you're a first world nation.  You try and cut the best deal possible with off-sets where we manufacture parts of the aircraft or other aircraft which the original manufacturers purchase back off us.

The F-35 is still the most advanced fighter-bomber jet aircraft in production.  A fact that you cannot get away from, no matter how much you whinge and whine.  Aircraft nowadays take time to develop and the F-35 is running roughly on schedule.  20 years from the time the first pen hit the paper is not bad going nowadays.   Nothing else matches the F-35 at the moment or for the foreseeable future.   Get over it and stop your whinging and whining.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #86 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 5:02pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.


Agreed. A 1960s vintage F-111 isn't going to do the job these days.

Despite a problematic development, the F-35 is coming good. Just like the F-111 did back in the late 60s


It is doing better than the F-111.  It has suffered only one crash thus far.  The F-111 suffered fewer crashes during development than the F-4 Phantom yet when the F-111 was being developed, we never heard of any comparison with other aircraft types.  The F-35 has had one loss in ~20 years of development. 
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #87 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:23pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 7:12pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm:
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Much like your pretense of all knowledge ey? DH.

BTW Noddy since when have our politicians been experts on defense.

Like all the experts on the Collins Class Sub fiasco?  Grin


*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The COLLINS class are still one of the largest, quietest, conventional submarines in service around the world.  For a first effort at Submarine building, they are not as bad as the media as portrayed them as.  The British BTW, the world's experts at design and submarine construction,  and welded a hull section on, upside down on their nuclear attack class of submarines,  the USA, had to scrap an entire boat on the stocks 'cause the welds were done incorrectly.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Their ongoing failings & constant upgrade requirements which saw them out of action for long periods make them on a par in the respective time frame as being bottomless money pits.

As for not knowing ones arse from ones elbow I'll take that as being advice from an expert in that dept.  Roll Eyes


The problem with the COLLINS class is that we don't have enough crews for them.  The RAN cannot keep the crews trained and onboard the boats for long enough.  Now the mining boom is well and truly over, that may change.  The RAN found they were training their crews to only have them piss off to the mines where they got four times the wage.

The COLLINS class have actually been an excellent boat, when in service.  They are one of the largest, quietest submarines in service today.   We did a good deal (note, not an excellent one, Kokums tried to do the dirty on us at one point) and we did an adequate job (not a great job) building them.  The RAN stuffed up in the contract they used to pay for the submarines which is why they ended up with inadequate control systems.   Those have now been replaced and updated.   

While they did not end up as quiet as originally envisaged, they were still far better than the ignorant media portrayed them to be.  The problem was the Labor Government decided to retrench a large number of middle-ranking naval officers, many of whom had been involved in the building of the COLLINS class.  Embittered they were willing to spill the beans to the media and the media (read Murdoch) was only too willing to publish anything embarrassing to Labor.   They are significantly quieter their predecessors (the OBERON class) and significantly quieter than comparable nuclear powered submarines.  They are simply not "twice as quiet" as the OBERON classes as originally specified.




How many fully working Collins subs are actually on patrol out in the deep sea?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #88 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:23pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 7:12pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm:
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Much like your pretense of all knowledge ey? DH.

BTW Noddy since when have our politicians been experts on defense.

Like all the experts on the Collins Class Sub fiasco?  Grin


*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The COLLINS class are still one of the largest, quietest, conventional submarines in service around the world.  For a first effort at Submarine building, they are not as bad as the media as portrayed them as.  The British BTW, the world's experts at design and submarine construction,  and welded a hull section on, upside down on their nuclear attack class of submarines,  the USA, had to scrap an entire boat on the stocks 'cause the welds were done incorrectly.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Their ongoing failings & constant upgrade requirements which saw them out of action for long periods make them on a par in the respective time frame as being bottomless money pits.

As for not knowing ones arse from ones elbow I'll take that as being advice from an expert in that dept.  Roll Eyes


The problem with the COLLINS class is that we don't have enough crews for them.  The RAN cannot keep the crews trained and onboard the boats for long enough.  Now the mining boom is well and truly over, that may change.  The RAN found they were training their crews to only have them piss off to the mines where they got four times the wage.

The COLLINS class have actually been an excellent boat, when in service.  They are one of the largest, quietest submarines in service today.   We did a good deal (note, not an excellent one, Kokums tried to do the dirty on us at one point) and we did an adequate job (not a great job) building them.  The RAN stuffed up in the contract they used to pay for the submarines which is why they ended up with inadequate control systems.   Those have now been replaced and updated.   


While they did not end up as quiet as originally envisaged, they were still far better than the ignorant media portrayed them to be.  The problem was the Labor Government decided to retrench a large number of middle-ranking naval officers, many of whom had been involved in the building of the COLLINS class.  Embittered they were willing to spill the beans to the media and the media (read Murdoch) was only too willing to publish anything embarrassing to Labor.   They are significantly quieter their predecessors (the OBERON class) and significantly quieter than comparable nuclear powered submarines.  They are simply not "twice as quiet" as the OBERON classes as originally specified.




Many places experienced staff losses due to the mining boom & the higher wages ... not just the Navy.

And the "when in service" just confirms my point.

We go from crap decision to crap decision with our ADF hardware ...... the F35's are shaping up to be another.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #89 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:13pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:50pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Oh dear what a dill ....

15 years we have been involved in the F35 program

we signed for 48 under LABOR & now 72 with the LNP ...

we got one or two testers last year & one or two 2018...

won't see a operational unit until after 2022.

So much for we what we need now ... putz. Roll Eyes


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  I suppose we should have just dropped into the corner shop and bought a new fighter-bomber off the shelf?  In reality, what happened was the US suggested we might like to become involved in the development and manufacture of a new aircraft and therefore we could buy it at a reduced price.  The Australian Government accepted and we placed an initial order for 48 and then later an increased order for up to 72 aircraft. These are not things you buy off the shelf, if you're a first world nation.  You try and cut the best deal possible with off-sets where we manufacture parts of the aircraft or other aircraft which the original manufacturers purchase back off us.

The F-35 is still the most advanced fighter-bomber jet aircraft in production.  A fact that you cannot get away from, no matter how much you whinge and whine.  Aircraft nowadays take time to develop and the F-35 is running roughly on schedule.  20 years from the time the first pen hit the paper is not bad going nowadays.   Nothing else matches the F-35 at the moment or for the foreseeable future.   Get over it and stop your whinging and whining.   Roll Eyes



Rubbish -  the F-35 is not running roughly on schedule -
it's about 5 years behind schedule and countless $billions over budget.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #90 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:20pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.


Agreed. A 1960s vintage F-111 isn't going to do the job these days.

Despite a problematic development, the F-35 is coming good. Just like the F-111 did back in the late 60s



F111's never came into service in Australia until 1982.

RAAF No.2 Squadron was still flying Canberra Bombers until 1982.

We leased F 4e Phantoms whist waiting for the F111's.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #91 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:25pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:50pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Oh dear what a dill ....

15 years we have been involved in the F35 program

we signed for 48 under LABOR & now 72 with the LNP ...

we got one or two testers last year & one or two 2018...

won't see a operational unit until after 2022.

So much for we what we need now ... putz. Roll Eyes


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  I suppose we should have just dropped into the corner shop and bought a new fighter-bomber off the shelf?  In reality, what happened was the US suggested we might like to become involved in the development and manufacture of a new aircraft and therefore we could buy it at a reduced price.  The Australian Government accepted and we placed an initial order for 48 and then later an increased order for up to 72 aircraft. These are not things you buy off the shelf, if you're a first world nation.  You try and cut the best deal possible with off-sets where we manufacture parts of the aircraft or other aircraft which the original manufacturers purchase back off us.

The F-35 is still the most advanced fighter-bomber jet aircraft in production.  A fact that you cannot get away from, no matter how much you whinge and whine.  Aircraft nowadays take time to develop and the F-35 is running roughly on schedule.  20 years from the time the first pen hit the paper is not bad going nowadays.   Nothing else matches the F-35 at the moment or for the foreseeable future.   Get over it and stop your whinging and whining.   Roll Eyes


Stop waffling Bwian ... all that shoots your "here & now & not the future" drivel ... out of the sky.

20 years? what rot.

20 years old & the state of the art?

That's what the critics said .... an old pig with lipstick.

As for running to schedule ... that's another crock of shyte ...

it's years behind.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #92 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:41pm
 
Brian doesn't know.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #93 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:41pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:20pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.


Agreed. A 1960s vintage F-111 isn't going to do the job these days.

Despite a problematic development, the F-35 is coming good. Just like the F-111 did back in the late 60s



F111's never came into service in Australia until 1982.

RAAF No.2 Squadron was still flying Canberra Bombers until 1982.

We leased F 4e Phantoms whist waiting for the F111's. 


First flight of the F-111 was 1964, the RAAF got them in 1973. Like I said, 60s technology
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #94 - Oct 2nd, 2018 at 7:46pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:41pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:20pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.


Agreed. A 1960s vintage F-111 isn't going to do the job these days.

Despite a problematic development, the F-35 is coming good. Just like the F-111 did back in the late 60s



F111's never came into service in Australia until 1982.

RAAF No.2 Squadron was still flying Canberra Bombers until 1982.

We leased F 4e Phantoms whist waiting for the F111's. 


First flight of the F-111 was 1964, the RAAF got them in 1973. Like I said, 60s technology




F111s -
They had many upgrades.
The ones that went into museums had to have all their high tech
electronics taken out of them & sent back to the USA.
It was too secret to leave lying around.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #95 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:26pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:23pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 7:12pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 6:33pm:
*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Much like your pretense of all knowledge ey? DH.

BTW Noddy since when have our politicians been experts on defense.

Like all the experts on the Collins Class Sub fiasco?  Grin


*SIGH* such ignorance, such foolishness.   Leave defence to the experts.  Amateurs don't know their arses from their elbows.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The COLLINS class are still one of the largest, quietest, conventional submarines in service around the world.  For a first effort at Submarine building, they are not as bad as the media as portrayed them as.  The British BTW, the world's experts at design and submarine construction,  and welded a hull section on, upside down on their nuclear attack class of submarines,  the USA, had to scrap an entire boat on the stocks 'cause the welds were done incorrectly.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Their ongoing failings & constant upgrade requirements which saw them out of action for long periods make them on a par in the respective time frame as being bottomless money pits.

As for not knowing ones arse from ones elbow I'll take that as being advice from an expert in that dept.  Roll Eyes


The problem with the COLLINS class is that we don't have enough crews for them.  The RAN cannot keep the crews trained and onboard the boats for long enough.  Now the mining boom is well and truly over, that may change.  The RAN found they were training their crews to only have them piss off to the mines where they got four times the wage.

The COLLINS class have actually been an excellent boat, when in service.  They are one of the largest, quietest submarines in service today.   We did a good deal (note, not an excellent one, Kokums tried to do the dirty on us at one point) and we did an adequate job (not a great job) building them.  The RAN stuffed up in the contract they used to pay for the submarines which is why they ended up with inadequate control systems.   Those have now been replaced and updated.   

While they did not end up as quiet as originally envisaged, they were still far better than the ignorant media portrayed them to be.  The problem was the Labor Government decided to retrench a large number of middle-ranking naval officers, many of whom had been involved in the building of the COLLINS class.  Embittered they were willing to spill the beans to the media and the media (read Murdoch) was only too willing to publish anything embarrassing to Labor.   They are significantly quieter their predecessors (the OBERON class) and significantly quieter than comparable nuclear powered submarines.  They are simply not "twice as quiet" as the OBERON classes as originally specified.


How many fully working Collins subs are actually on patrol out in the deep sea?


If I told you that, Bobby, I'd have to kill you afterwards.   Smiley

In theory, we should have two on patrol, two in training and two in refit.   AIUI we actually have about 1.5 on patrol, 1.5 in training and 3 in refit (and please don't ask me what .5 of a submarine looks like.   Roll Eyes )
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #96 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:37pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm:
Many places experienced staff losses due to the mining boom & the higher wages ... not just the Navy.

And the "when in service" just confirms my point.

We go from crap decision to crap decision with our ADF hardware ...... the F35's are shaping up to be another.


The RAN has suffered significant crew losses in their submarine service.  It is simply easier to go FIFO to a remote mining site than to spend six months away from home, on some far off PA.

We have, in the past suffered, I am quite willing to admit from bad procurement decisions - decisions it should be noted which were primarily politically drive.  Nowadays, things have improved markedly.   The COLLINS class is a case in point.  None of the other tenders were wiling to allow the boats to be built in Australia to the RAN's specifications.  Kockums tried to do the dirty on us by making bad welds on the first boat of the class (which was partially assembled in Sweden) but when that was discovered they had their wrists slapped and the boat was rewelded, at their expense.   The COLLINS class is still one of the largest, longest ranged, best equipped and quietest submarines in the world.

The F-35 is an interesting case and one where the procurement decisions have been driven by Australia's need for technology transfer as against cheapness of procurement.   Not only can we, if necessary, repair and rebuild the aircraft downunder, we can build new ones if the worst ever came to the worse.

As usual, you have failed t answer my major point - there is simply no other alternative aircraft that is as advanced as the F-35 which is available.  The Russians are a good 20 years behind, the Chinese a good 15 years behind.  The British are a good 20 years behind, the French a good 30 years behind, the Swedes have basically given up on the idea of stealth it appears from the open source press at the moment.    The F-35 is the only aircraft available to us which ensures that we retain a technological edge over all other air forces in the region.


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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #97 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:39pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:13pm:
Rubbish -  the F-35 is not running roughly on schedule -
it's about 5 years behind schedule and countless $billions over budget.


Bobby, nowadays that is considered "roughly on schedule".   Political decisions and technical difficulties all play a part in modern defence procurement.  The technical difficulties have been overcome.  The political decisions have made it slip further behind.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #98 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:53pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:20pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 2:53pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 8:25am:
One Tornado was shot down by a Mig-29.

Most of the detractors of the F-35 do not or will not understand that the present moment there is nothing comparable to the F-35, either in the West or the East.   No Russian or Chinese aircraft is as stealthy or possesses the same facilities which make the F-35 their superior.


Agreed. A 1960s vintage F-111 isn't going to do the job these days.

Despite a problematic development, the F-35 is coming good. Just like the F-111 did back in the late 60s



F111's never came into service in Australia until 1982.

RAAF No.2 Squadron was still flying Canberra Bombers until 1982.

We leased F 4e Phantoms whist waiting for the F111's. 



The F-111 entered service with the RAAF in 1973 when the first aircraft were flown across the Pacific from the USA:

Quote:
While the first aircraft was officially handed over on 4 September 1968, structural issues delayed the entry into service of the F-111C.[1] Twenty-four USAF F-4 Phantom IIs were leased as an interim measure.[36] The Phantoms were delivered in September and October 1970 to No. 82 Wing at RAAF Base Amberley, Queensland. During its next three years in RAAF service, one F-4 was lost. By June 1973, the remaining 23 Phantoms were returned to the U.S.
[...]
The F-111C entered Australian service after the technical problems were resolved, and the first F-111C was accepted at Nellis Air Force Base on 15 March 1973.[60] On 31 March, the RAAF Washington Flying Unit was formed at McClellan Air Force Base in California with the mission of ferrying the first 12 F-111Cs to Australia.[61] This unit was commanded by Group Captain John Newham, who later served as Chief of the Air Staff between 1985 and 1988. The RAAF's first six F-111Cs arrived at Amberley on 1 July 1973, and three subsequent groups of six F-111s arrived on 27 July, 28 September and 4 December.

[source]

I have absolutely no idea where you got the year of 1982 from.   The F-111 was originally designed with early 1960s technology in it's avionics.  This was then progressive updated until a remanufacture programme was undertaken in the 1990s and the entire fleet was returned to zero hours and all their avionics were replaced with digital systems.

Quote:
The Canberra's distinguished RAAF career officially ended on 30 June 1982 when No 2 Squadron flew four aircraft over Brisbane and surrounding areas in a farewell fly-past.

[Source]

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #99 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:53pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:39pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:13pm:
Rubbish -  the F-35 is not running roughly on schedule -
it's about 5 years behind schedule and countless $billions over budget.


Bobby, nowadays that is considered "roughly on schedule".   Political decisions and technical difficulties all play a part in modern defence procurement.  The technical difficulties have been overcome.  The political decisions have made it slip further behind.


Grin I wouldn't want to be hanging by the balls waiting at that rate.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #100 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:55pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:50pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Oh dear what a dill ....

15 years we have been involved in the F35 program

we signed for 48 under LABOR & now 72 with the LNP ...

we got one or two testers last year & one or two 2018...

won't see a operational unit until after 2022.

So much for we what we need now ... putz. Roll Eyes


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  I suppose we should have just dropped into the corner shop and bought a new fighter-bomber off the shelf?  In reality, what happened was the US suggested we might like to become involved in the development and manufacture of a new aircraft and therefore we could buy it at a reduced price.  The Australian Government accepted and we placed an initial order for 48 and then later an increased order for up to 72 aircraft. These are not things you buy off the shelf, if you're a first world nation.  You try and cut the best deal possible with off-sets where we manufacture parts of the aircraft or other aircraft which the original manufacturers purchase back off us.

The F-35 is still the most advanced fighter-bomber jet aircraft in production.  A fact that you cannot get away from, no matter how much you whinge and whine.  Aircraft nowadays take time to develop and the F-35 is running roughly on schedule.  20 years from the time the first pen hit the paper is not bad going nowadays.   Nothing else matches the F-35 at the moment or for the foreseeable future.   Get over it and stop your whinging and whining.   Roll Eyes


Stop waffling Bwian ... all that shoots your "here & now & not the future" drivel ... out of the sky.

20 years? what rot.

20 years old & the state of the art?

That's what the critics said .... an old pig with lipstick.

As for running to schedule ... that's another crock of shyte ...

it's years behind.



Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious that you know absolutely nothing about this topic.  Run along back to your bridge.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #101 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 5:59pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:26pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm:
How many fully working Collins subs are actually on patrol out in the deep sea?


If I told you that, Bobby, I'd have to kill you afterwards.   Smiley

In theory, we should have two on patrol, two in training and two in refit.   AIUI we actually have about 1.5 on patrol, 1.5 in training and 3 in refit (and please don't ask me what .5 of a submarine looks like.   Roll Eyes )



Only 1.5 actually out there in the deep blue sea?

That's an embarrassment.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #102 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 6:00pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:53pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:39pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:13pm:
Rubbish -  the F-35 is not running roughly on schedule -
it's about 5 years behind schedule and countless $billions over budget.


Bobby, nowadays that is considered "roughly on schedule".   Political decisions and technical difficulties all play a part in modern defence procurement.  The technical difficulties have been overcome.  The political decisions have made it slip further behind.


Grin I wouldn't want to be hanging by the balls waiting at that rate.



Brian doesn't know.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #103 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 6:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:26pm:

If I told you that, Bobby, I'd have to kill you afterwards.   Smiley

In theory, we should have two on patrol, two in training and two in refit.   AIUI we actually have about 1.5 on patrol, 1.5 in training and 3 in refit (and please don't ask me what .5 of a submarine looks like.   Roll Eyes )



So what does .5 of a sub look like, what is .5 of a sub?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #104 - Oct 3rd, 2018 at 9:34pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 5:59pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:26pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm:
How many fully working Collins subs are actually on patrol out in the deep sea?


If I told you that, Bobby, I'd have to kill you afterwards.   Smiley

In theory, we should have two on patrol, two in training and two in refit.   AIUI we actually have about 1.5 on patrol, 1.5 in training and 3 in refit (and please don't ask me what .5 of a submarine looks like.   Roll Eyes )


Only 1.5 actually out there in the deep blue sea?

That's an embarrassment.


Why?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #105 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:16am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 9:34pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 5:59pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:26pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm:
How many fully working Collins subs are actually on patrol out in the deep sea?


If I told you that, Bobby, I'd have to kill you afterwards.   Smiley

In theory, we should have two on patrol, two in training and two in refit.   AIUI we actually have about 1.5 on patrol, 1.5 in training and 3 in refit (and please don't ask me what .5 of a submarine looks like.   Roll Eyes )


Only 1.5 actually out there in the deep blue sea?

That's an embarrassment.


Why?



I expected at least 5 to be at sea, protecting our nation.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #106 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:01pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:16am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 9:34pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 5:59pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:26pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:09pm:
How many fully working Collins subs are actually on patrol out in the deep sea?


If I told you that, Bobby, I'd have to kill you afterwards.   Smiley

In theory, we should have two on patrol, two in training and two in refit.   AIUI we actually have about 1.5 on patrol, 1.5 in training and 3 in refit (and please don't ask me what .5 of a submarine looks like.   Roll Eyes )


Only 1.5 actually out there in the deep blue sea?

That's an embarrassment.


Why?


I expected at least 5 to be at sea, protecting our nation.


Nope.  Never going to happen, Bobby.  The limiting factor is crew.  You cannot expect the crew to spend all their lives at sea.

In modern logistical terms, you invariably aim for about one third of your vessels (of any type) to be at sea, operating with the fleet, during peacetime.  You expect another third to be training to go to sea, for operations with the fleet.  You expect the last third to be in refit - having repairs made, batteries replaced, etc.   When we have fifteen submarines and no mining boom, you can expect approximately five to be on operations in peacetime, Bobby.

In wartime, you can expect a surge BTW, with approximately an additional sixth of your force going to sea on operations, with another sixth in training and another third undergoing refits.

Refitting submarines takes years BTW.  Nuclear submarines take longer of course but we don't have any of them nor expect to have any in the foreseeable future.   We lack the nuclear industry to support them.   We do not have the nuclear technicians to maintain them and we lack the nuclear fuel to run them.   We would need to create a whole new nuclear training and support industry.  It would significantly skew our Defence budget.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #107 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm
 
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #108 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:22pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:50pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 2nd, 2018 at 4:14pm:
Oh dear what a dill ....

15 years we have been involved in the F35 program

we signed for 48 under LABOR & now 72 with the LNP ...

we got one or two testers last year & one or two 2018...

won't see a operational unit until after 2022.

So much for we what we need now ... putz. Roll Eyes


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  I suppose we should have just dropped into the corner shop and bought a new fighter-bomber off the shelf?  In reality, what happened was the US suggested we might like to become involved in the development and manufacture of a new aircraft and therefore we could buy it at a reduced price.  The Australian Government accepted and we placed an initial order for 48 and then later an increased order for up to 72 aircraft. These are not things you buy off the shelf, if you're a first world nation.  You try and cut the best deal possible with off-sets where we manufacture parts of the aircraft or other aircraft which the original manufacturers purchase back off us.

The F-35 is still the most advanced fighter-bomber jet aircraft in production.  A fact that you cannot get away from, no matter how much you whinge and whine.  Aircraft nowadays take time to develop and the F-35 is running roughly on schedule.  20 years from the time the first pen hit the paper is not bad going nowadays.   Nothing else matches the F-35 at the moment or for the foreseeable future.   Get over it and stop your whinging and whining.   Roll Eyes


Stop waffling Bwian ... all that shoots your "here & now & not the future" drivel ... out of the sky.

20 years? what rot.

20 years old & the state of the art?

That's what the critics said .... an old pig with lipstick.

As for running to schedule ... that's another crock of shyte ...

it's years behind.



Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious that you know absolutely nothing about this topic.  Run along back to your bridge.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Have you been told today?

Consider yourself told ....  Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #109 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #110 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:01pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



There should be a fresh crew waiting & no more than 3 days
maintenance when they go to shore -
refuel, replenish the food & other supplies & back out to sea.

Military quality products shouldn't break down all the time -
they should go for 10 years or more between services.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #111 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:29pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


...

Run along, Bobby, run along.  I can hear your playmates in the little kiddies' playground calling.

You know, sometimes you can be sensible and then you just act like a nong.  Stop it, you'll go blind!   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #112 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:32pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:29pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Run along, Bobby, run along.  I can hear your playmates in the little kiddies' playground calling.

You know, sometimes you can be sensible and then you just act like a nong.  Stop it, you'll go blind!   Roll Eyes



Don't try and belittle someone who actually knows.

You don't know.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #113 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:46pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious that you know absolutely nothing about this topic.  Run along back to your bridge.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Have you been told today?

Consider yourself told ....  Roll Eyes


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk.  Run along Gnads, run along.  Your little friends in the little kiddies' playground are calling you.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #114 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:49pm
 
Now - back on topic:

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #115 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:25pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



Fine in theory - if there are sufficient crews, Gnads.  Unfortunately, the Mining Boom put paid to that.   We are slowly recovering from that.  Slowly - something you don't seem to take into account - the amount of time it takes to train submarine crewmen.   Roll Eyes

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #116 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:31pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:32pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:29pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Run along, Bobby, run along.  I can hear your playmates in the little kiddies' playground calling.

You know, sometimes you can be sensible and then you just act like a nong.  Stop it, you'll go blind!   Roll Eyes


Don't try and belittle someone who actually knows.

You don't know.


I suspect I know a great deal more than you, Bobby, a great deal.  You have thus far demonstrated nothing of any real value in this thread.  Funny that, hey?   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #117 - Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:01pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



There should be a fresh crew waiting & no more than 3 days
maintenance when they go to shore -
refuel, replenish the food & other supplies & back out to sea.

Military quality products shouldn't break down all the time -
they should go for 10 years or more between services.



Oh, you speak from such ignorance, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #118 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:56am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:46pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious that you know absolutely nothing about this topic.  Run along back to your bridge.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Have you been told today?

Consider yourself told ....  Roll Eyes


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk.  Run along Gnads, run along.  Your little friends in the little kiddies' playground are calling you.   Roll Eyes


You're a complete tosser Brian.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #119 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:58am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



Fine in theory - if there are sufficient crews, Gnads.  Unfortunately, the Mining Boom put paid to that.   We are slowly recovering from that.  Slowly - something you don't seem to take into account - the amount of time it takes to train submarine crewmen.   Roll Eyes



Roll Eyes more repetition Brian. The mining boom has been ... there have been staff reductions all over the industry of late. Technology innit.

Driverless trains, driverless dump trucks ... etc etc
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #120 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:09pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:56am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 7:46pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 3rd, 2018 at 3:55pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious that you know absolutely nothing about this topic.  Run along back to your bridge.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Have you been told today?

Consider yourself told ....  Roll Eyes


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk.  Run along Gnads, run along.  Your little friends in the little kiddies' playground are calling you.   Roll Eyes


You're a complete tosser Brian.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk.  Run along Gnads, run along.  Your little friends in the little kiddies' playground are calling you.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #121 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:14pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



Fine in theory - if there are sufficient crews, Gnads.  Unfortunately, the Mining Boom put paid to that.   We are slowly recovering from that.  Slowly - something you don't seem to take into account - the amount of time it takes to train submarine crewmen.   Roll Eyes



Roll Eyes more repetition Brian. The mining boom has been ... there have been staff reductions all over the industry of late. Technology innit.

Driverless trains, driverless dump trucks ... etc etc


And who maintains the trains, the dump trucks, keeps their engines working, Gnads?  You do realise there is still quite a market for people trained in heavy diesel engine maintenance and so on?   Or don't you?  Do you think that the trains/trucks just roll out of their sheds, lacking it appears according to you, drivers without ever having any maintenance undertaken on them?  Really?  Gnads, you really are ignorant, aren't you?

Oh, and "driverless systems" are still in their infancy, in the real world.   Some big advances have been made but no one is really implementing such systems on a wide scale, yet.

Run along, Gnads, I heard your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling you.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #122 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm
 
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #123 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #124 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley



Tsk  Tsk.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #125 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:39pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley


Tsk  Tsk.



Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Bobby.  Do you revel in your ignorance and foolishness?  Appears so.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #126 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:53pm
 
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Brian.  Do you revel in your ignorance and foolishness?  Appears so.  Tsk, tsk.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #127 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:57pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:53pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Brian.  Do you revel in your ignorance and foolishness?  Appears so.  Tsk, tsk.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Such a silly sausage, Bobby.  No prizes for second place.   Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #128 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:00pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:57pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:53pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Brian.  Do you revel in your ignorance and foolishness?  Appears so.  Tsk, tsk.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Such a silly sausage, Bobby.  No prizes for second place.   Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes



Brian - I actually know more about this topic than you think.
I can't give out the information.
I know that we should have a lot more than 1 sub at sea - that's pathetic.

The only reason we're buying F35s is that it enables us  to
operate in the same battlefield area as the Yanks.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #129 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:10pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:57pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:53pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Brian.  Do you revel in your ignorance and foolishness?  Appears so.  Tsk, tsk.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Such a silly sausage, Bobby.  No prizes for second place.   Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes


Brian - I actually know more about this topic than you think.
I can't give out the information.
I know that we should have a lot more than 1 sub at sea - that's pathetic.


Oh, I agree with you.  However, unlike you, I recognise that we cannot - as long as we lack sufficient trained crew.   As long as the mining companies keep paying more than the RAN does, where do you think the RAN crew will end up?  Mmm?

Quote:
The only reason we're buying F35s is that it enables us  to
operate in the same battlefield area as the Yanks.


Partially yes, partially no.  The F-35 is the most advanced fighter-bomber aircraft available at the present time (and for the next 10 years).   There is simply no other aircraft as advanced.  No other aircraft that is as stealthy, packed with advanced electronics and able to carry weapons which as advanced as it does.   Until you can find me an aircraft that is more advanced than the F-35 and which we can afford to purchase, as cheaply as we are the F-35 (on the basis of the systems that it carries), I will continue to back the F-35.   Simples really.  Something the detractors of the F-35 never do, BTW, Bobby.

Now, if you know more than you're letting on, why do you keep making such simple mistakes all the time?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #130 - Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:10pm:
Oh, I agree with you.  However, unlike you, I recognise that we cannot - as long as we lack sufficient trained crew.   As long as the mining companies keep paying more than the RAN does, where do you think the RAN crew will end up?  Mmm?



Partially yes, partially no.  The F-35 is the most advanced fighter-bomber aircraft available at the present time (and for the next 10 years).   There is simply no other aircraft as advanced.  No other aircraft that is as stealthy, packed with advanced electronics and able to carry weapons which as advanced as it does.   Until you can find me an aircraft that is more advanced than the F-35 and which we can afford to purchase, as cheaply as we are the F-35 (on the basis of the systems that it carries), I will continue to back the F-35.   Simples really.  Something the detractors of the F-35 never do, BTW, Bobby.

Now, if you know more than you're letting on, why do you keep making such simple mistakes all the time?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes



Brian,
you're ignorant.

The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.

read some more here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/asia/india-s400-deal-intl/index.html

Quote:
The Turkey deal has caused consternation in Washington, where a bipartisan group of lawmakers have attempted to block the transfer of the US' F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Turkey, citing security concerns.
US defense officials believe once operational, the S-400 could be used to gather technical data on US designed fighter planes and that critical information could be passed to Moscow either intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system.
India's purchase of the S-400 may result in the US refusing to sell "advanced fighter aircraft types" to Delhi in the future, said Layton.




Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #131 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:31am
 
Vlads MIG41 will smash this old land rover to bits.

Stupid Australians following the yanks.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #132 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:46am
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:31am:
Vlads MIG41 will smash this old land rover to bits.

Stupid Australians following the yanks.




No MIG-41s until 2025.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-41
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #133 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:26am
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:31am:
Vlads MIG41 will smash this old land rover to bits.

Stupid Australians following the yanks.


A mach 4, ramjet equipped fighter that can operate in near space with anti-missile lasers (according to the manufacturer).

Sure I saw that movie once. They sent Clint Eastwood over to steal it and fly it back to America. Have it on DVD somewhere.

/think in Russian...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #134 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #135 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:30pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:46am:
Captain Caveman wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:31am:
Vlads MIG41 will smash this old land rover to bits.

Stupid Australians following the yanks.


No MIG-41s until 2025.


IF purchased by the Russian airforce.  There is no evidence it has been, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Quote:


*SIGH* comparing apples with oranges, again, Bobby?

The MiG41 is an interceptor.  The F-35 is a fighter-bomber.  The MiG41 is designed to climb fast, fly fast and fire it's missiles at the enemy aircraft it has intercepted.   The F-35 is intended to fly a long way, evade the enemy's defences and attack their assets.   The MiG41 is intended to intercept aircraft like the F-35.   Being Russian, of course, it will fail and fail badly at doing so.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #136 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:56pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


dear Brian,
since this an anonymous forum there is no way you can prove any qualifications -
one of the reasons I don't boast about my own.
You are still my student:




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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #137 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


dear Brian,
since this an anonymous forum there is no way you can prove any qualifications -
one of the reasons I don't boast about my own.
You are still my student:


No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #138 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 4:03pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


dear Brian,
since this an anonymous forum there is no way you can prove any qualifications -
one of the reasons I don't boast about my own.
You are still my student:


No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


I don't believe you bwyannnnnn
bwyannnnnn
I'd like a signed affidavit in triplicate with evidence before I believe anything you say.

Sound familiar?
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A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #139 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 4:03pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


OK Brian,
I will give you a chance to prove yourself.
In the quote made below:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/asia/india-s400-deal-intl/index.html

Quote:
The Turkey deal has caused consternation in Washington, where a bipartisan group of lawmakers have attempted to block the transfer of the US' F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Turkey, citing security concerns.
US defense officials believe once operational, the S-400 could be used to gather technical data on US designed fighter planes and that critical information could be passed to Moscow either intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system.
India's purchase of the S-400 may result in the US refusing to sell "advanced fighter aircraft types" to Delhi in the future, said Layton.



What are they referring to when they say?

"intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system."

I know the answer so - you tell us all and then I'll give the real answer.
It won't be on Google so don't bother looking.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #140 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:45pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



Fine in theory - if there are sufficient crews, Gnads.  Unfortunately, the Mining Boom put paid to that.   We are slowly recovering from that.  Slowly - something you don't seem to take into account - the amount of time it takes to train submarine crewmen.   Roll Eyes



Roll Eyes more repetition Brian. The mining boom has been ... there have been staff reductions all over the industry of late. Technology innit.

Driverless trains, driverless dump trucks ... etc etc


And who maintains the trains, the dump trucks, keeps their engines working, Gnads?  You do realise there is still quite a market for people trained in heavy diesel engine maintenance and so on?   Or don't you?  Do you think that the trains/trucks just roll out of their sheds, lacking it appears according to you, drivers without ever having any maintenance undertaken on them?  Really?  Gnads, you really are ignorant, aren't you?

Oh, and "driverless systems" are still in their infancy, in the real world.   Some big advances have been made but no one is really implementing such systems on a wide scale, yet.

Run along, Gnads, I heard your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling you.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


That's still a massive reduction in operational staff you dolt.

You're one of the tossers that follows the downward trend in employment opportunities and conditions to the lowest common denominator and think it good.

As for the introduction of driverless technology being in its infancy then you are as mistaken as you claim I am regarding the F35.

The trialing & experimentation with driverless trains in the iron ore industry has been going on for decades ... Rio Tinto have already started it in the Pilbara & the bug ironing out is just about completed.

BHP are set to follow.

I have 45 years in the rail industry ... you?

Naff off you patronising condescending twerp.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #141 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:46pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley


You're smarter than no one.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #142 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:48pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 10:10pm:
Oh, I agree with you.  However, unlike you, I recognise that we cannot - as long as we lack sufficient trained crew.   As long as the mining companies keep paying more than the RAN does, where do you think the RAN crew will end up?  Mmm?



Partially yes, partially no.  The F-35 is the most advanced fighter-bomber aircraft available at the present time (and for the next 10 years).   There is simply no other aircraft as advanced.  No other aircraft that is as stealthy, packed with advanced electronics and able to carry weapons which as advanced as it does.   Until you can find me an aircraft that is more advanced than the F-35 and which we can afford to purchase, as cheaply as we are the F-35 (on the basis of the systems that it carries), I will continue to back the F-35.   Simples really.  Something the detractors of the F-35 never do, BTW, Bobby.

Now, if you know more than you're letting on, why do you keep making such simple mistakes all the time?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes



Brian,
you're ignorant.


The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.

read some more here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/asia/india-s400-deal-intl/index.html

Quote:
The Turkey deal has caused consternation in Washington, where a bipartisan group of lawmakers have attempted to block the transfer of the US' F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Turkey, citing security concerns.
US defense officials believe once operational, the S-400 could be used to gather technical data on US designed fighter planes and that critical information could be passed to Moscow either intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system.
India's purchase of the S-400 may result in the US refusing to sell "advanced fighter aircraft types" to Delhi in the future, said Layton.




Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


He's not ignorant ... he's deliberately a half smart arse.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #143 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:52pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


That should read MASTER BATERS DEGREE.

Simply put Brian you're a detestable wanker.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #144 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:07pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley


You're smarter than no one.



Don't worry - I've asked Brian a question -

let's see if he can answer it.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #145 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:15pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


OK Brian,
I will give you a chance to prove yourself.
In the quote made below:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/asia/india-s400-deal-intl/index.html

Quote:
The Turkey deal has caused consternation in Washington, where a bipartisan group of lawmakers have attempted to block the transfer of the US' F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Turkey, citing security concerns.
US defense officials believe once operational, the S-400 could be used to gather technical data on US designed fighter planes and that critical information could be passed to Moscow either intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system.
India's purchase of the S-400 may result in the US refusing to sell "advanced fighter aircraft types" to Delhi in the future, said Layton.



What are they referring to when they say?

"intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system."

I know the answer so - you tell us all and then I'll give the real answer.
It won't be on Google so don't bother looking.



Oh, dearie, dearie me.  Well Bobby, what it means is that the Russians might get out of their S-400 system the stealth "signatures" of stealth systems if they were sold by the US to India.    They could design their systems to accept a remote login from a system outside the Indian system and download all the information it has been either programmed with or it has detected when operating with these hypothetical systems that the US might sell to India.  They could either do this overtly or covertly.

Personally, I think the yanks are going a bit over the top.  Stealth systems are not the holy grail they are being made out to be.  The Russians have this knowledge, indeed there is quite a bit of evidence that they were the first to propose such a system, way back in the 1970s.  It appears to be their way of warning off the Russians as potential competitors.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #146 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:22pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



Fine in theory - if there are sufficient crews, Gnads.  Unfortunately, the Mining Boom put paid to that.   We are slowly recovering from that.  Slowly - something you don't seem to take into account - the amount of time it takes to train submarine crewmen.   Roll Eyes



Roll Eyes more repetition Brian. The mining boom has been ... there have been staff reductions all over the industry of late. Technology innit.

Driverless trains, driverless dump trucks ... etc etc


And who maintains the trains, the dump trucks, keeps their engines working, Gnads?  You do realise there is still quite a market for people trained in heavy diesel engine maintenance and so on?   Or don't you?  Do you think that the trains/trucks just roll out of their sheds, lacking it appears according to you, drivers without ever having any maintenance undertaken on them?  Really?  Gnads, you really are ignorant, aren't you?

Oh, and "driverless systems" are still in their infancy, in the real world.   Some big advances have been made but no one is really implementing such systems on a wide scale, yet.

Run along, Gnads, I heard your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling you.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


That's still a massive reduction in operational staff you dolt.

You're one of the tossers that follows the downward trend in employment opportunities and conditions to the lowest common denominator and think it good.

As for the introduction of driverless technology being in its infancy then you are as mistaken as you claim I am regarding the F35.

The trialing & experimentation with driverless trains in the iron ore industry has been going on for decades ... Rio Tinto have already started it in the Pilbara & the bug ironing out is just about completed.

BHP are set to follow.

I have 45 years in the rail industry ... you?

Naff off you patronising condescending twerp.


I have no experience in the rail industry, Gnads.  However, I read the IT press and as far as I am aware, driverless technology is still in it's relative infancy.   Rio has only been trialling this for about the last 5 years.   AIUI they are still undertaking trial implementations.  The Unions will prevent them from implementing it on a widescale though, I do not doubt.

The number of operating staff might be decreasing as a consequence but the number of maintenance staff will actually increase as a consequence.   You will require staff to not only maintain the motive sources but the operating systems and comms.   Guess where the big dollars will be?

The RAN will not be able to match the mining companies when it comes to wages for the next five-ten years IMO, Gnads.   The RAN submarine fleet will continue to languish in port for the foreseeable future.    Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #147 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:23pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley


You're smarter than no one.


Doesn't look that way, Gnads.  Tsk, tsk.  I really don't know why I bother with you, I really don't.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #148 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:26pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


That should read MASTER BATERS DEGREE.

Simply put Brian you're a detestable wanker.



Sorry, Gnads, what was it you typed that was a valued contribution to this thread?  Oh, nothing?  How unusual, hey?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #149 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:30pm
 
Valkie wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


dear Brian,
since this an anonymous forum there is no way you can prove any qualifications -
one of the reasons I don't boast about my own.
You are still my student:


No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


I don't believe you bwyannnnnn
bwyannnnnn
I'd like a signed affidavit in triplicate with evidence before I believe anything you say.

Sound familiar?



Was there anything of value in your contribution, Valkie?  No, it doesn't appear so.  Tsk, tsk, I really don't know why you bother, I really don't.   Such a waste of electrons.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #150 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


OK Brian,
I will give you a chance to prove yourself.
In the quote made below:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/asia/india-s400-deal-intl/index.html

Quote:
The Turkey deal has caused consternation in Washington, where a bipartisan group of lawmakers have attempted to block the transfer of the US' F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Turkey, citing security concerns.
US defense officials believe once operational, the S-400 could be used to gather technical data on US designed fighter planes and that critical information could be passed to Moscow either intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system.
India's purchase of the S-400 may result in the US refusing to sell "advanced fighter aircraft types" to Delhi in the future, said Layton.



What are they referring to when they say?

"intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system."

I know the answer so - you tell us all and then I'll give the real answer.
It won't be on Google so don't bother looking.



Oh, dearie, dearie me.  Well Bobby, what it means is that the Russians might get out of their S-400 system the stealth "signatures" of stealth systems if they were sold by the US to India.    They could design their systems to accept a remote login from a system outside the Indian system and download all the information it has been either programmed with or it has detected when operating with these hypothetical systems that the US might sell to India.  They could either do this overtly or covertly.

Personally, I think the yanks are going a bit over the top.  Stealth systems are not the holy grail they are being made out to be.  The Russians have this knowledge, indeed there is quite a bit of evidence that they were the first to propose such a system, way back in the 1970s.  It appears to be their way of warning off the Russians as potential competitors.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes



That's close but you never mentioned how they would do it?

Here's the answer.
The S-400 system would be designed to operate with many other S-400 systems including the S-300 system.
They have to communicate to do that.
All war machines have redundant comms. systems.
One way is to use ordinary radio communication in HF & UHF bands -
another is to use satellites.
I would not be surprised if the S-400 & S-300 use all 3 types.

The Indians would need to fly the F35 over a S-400 system to check the radar signature
& to see what radar bands give any signature.
The Russians may be able to clandestinely upload all the
data via satellite without the Indians knowing.
They could also do this in real time and use Russian satellites to
to look for any F35 signature obtainable from space -
Russian satellites.
Such information would be invaluable in a time of war.
In may very well be that a longer wavelength than is used
by the S-400 system would be better at picking it up.
The Russians will obtain this knowledge & defeat any stealth capability of the F35.

The Israelis recently took out targets in Syria using F35s.
No doubt - the Russians got lots of information from the S-300
systems stationed there.

Anyway Brian - your answer was incomplete so I'll give you a pass
but only 5 out of 10.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #151 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:43pm
 
Bobby, Bobby, why would the Indians allow the Russians to institute satellite comm systems in their air-defence systems when they don't use satellites themselves?  Why pay for something which you will never use?

Air Defence Systems do not, BTW, use satellite comms to communicate with one another.  They use cable or wireless (short range) data links.  Air Defence systems do not need to communicate more than a few hundred kilometres - at most.   Why?  'cause you don't design an Air Defence system which would be placed more than a few hundred kilometres from it's nearest neighbour.   There is simply no need for that, except in a Strategic air defence system and the S-400 is strictly speaking a tactical Air Defence System.

You do, understand the difference, I hope, Bobby between a "tactical" and a "strategic" level system?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #152 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:52pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:43pm:
Bobby, Bobby, why would the Indians allow the Russians to institute satellite comm systems in their air-defence systems when they don't use satellites themselves?  Why pay for something which you will never use?

Air Defence Systems do not, BTW, use satellite comms to communicate with one another.  They use cable or wireless (short range) data links.  Air Defence systems do not need to communicate more than a few hundred kilometres - at most.   Why?  'cause you don't design an Air Defence system which would be placed more than a few hundred kilometres from it's nearest neighbour.   There is simply no need for that, except in a Strategic air defence system and the S-400 is strictly speaking a tactical Air Defence System.

You do, understand the difference, I hope, Bobby between a "tactical" and a "strategic" level system?




Brian,
space is the place - I assure you that he who holds the high ground wins.
Of course they use satellites.
The Indians do have satellites.

tsk  tsk.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #153 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:02pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:43pm:
Bobby, Bobby, why would the Indians allow the Russians to institute satellite comm systems in their air-defence systems when they don't use satellites themselves?  Why pay for something which you will never use?

Air Defence Systems do not, BTW, use satellite comms to communicate with one another.  They use cable or wireless (short range) data links.  Air Defence systems do not need to communicate more than a few hundred kilometres - at most.   Why?  'cause you don't design an Air Defence system which would be placed more than a few hundred kilometres from it's nearest neighbour.   There is simply no need for that, except in a Strategic air defence system and the S-400 is strictly speaking a tactical Air Defence System.

You do, understand the difference, I hope, Bobby between a "tactical" and a "strategic" level system?


Brian,
space is the place - I assure you that he who holds the high ground wins.
Of course they use satellites.
The Indians do have satellites.

tsk  tsk.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious you do not understand the difference between a strategic and a tactical level system.  Tsk, tsk, run along.  I can hear all your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling back.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #154 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:04pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


dear Brian,
since this an anonymous forum there is no way you can prove any qualifications -
one of the reasons I don't boast about my own.
You are still my student:


No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


but you don't have any understanding of the underlying technology except what is written in a brochure at some air show.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #155 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:05pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious you do not understand the difference between a strategic and a tactical level system.  Tsk, tsk, run along.  I can hear all your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling back.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian,
a strategic and a tactical level system?
The S-400 & S-300 can do both -
that's why they have to communicate with each other.
One picks up the target and a central command works out which missile battery should fire.

Brian - your masters degree is not showing in this.

tsk  tsk.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #156 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:08pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:22pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



Fine in theory - if there are sufficient crews, Gnads.  Unfortunately, the Mining Boom put paid to that.   We are slowly recovering from that.  Slowly - something you don't seem to take into account - the amount of time it takes to train submarine crewmen.   Roll Eyes



Roll Eyes more repetition Brian. The mining boom has been ... there have been staff reductions all over the industry of late. Technology innit.

Driverless trains, driverless dump trucks ... etc etc


And who maintains the trains, the dump trucks, keeps their engines working, Gnads?  You do realise there is still quite a market for people trained in heavy diesel engine maintenance and so on?   Or don't you?  Do you think that the trains/trucks just roll out of their sheds, lacking it appears according to you, drivers without ever having any maintenance undertaken on them?  Really?  Gnads, you really are ignorant, aren't you?

Oh, and "driverless systems" are still in their infancy, in the real world.   Some big advances have been made but no one is really implementing such systems on a wide scale, yet.

Run along, Gnads, I heard your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling you.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


That's still a massive reduction in operational staff you dolt.

You're one of the tossers that follows the downward trend in employment opportunities and conditions to the lowest common denominator and think it good.

As for the introduction of driverless technology being in its infancy then you are as mistaken as you claim I am regarding the F35.

The trialing & experimentation with driverless trains in the iron ore industry has been going on for decades ... Rio Tinto have already started it in the Pilbara & the bug ironing out is just about completed.

BHP are set to follow.

I have 45 years in the rail industry ... you?

Naff off you patronising condescending twerp.


I have no experience in the rail industry, Gnads.  However, I read the IT press and as far as I am aware, driverless technology is still in it's relative infancy.   Rio has only been trialling this for about the last 5 years.   AIUI they are still undertaking trial implementations.  The Unions will prevent them from implementing it on a widescale though, I do not doubt.

The number of operating staff might be decreasing as a consequence but the number of maintenance staff will actually increase as a consequence.   You will require staff to not only maintain the motive sources but the operating systems and comms.   Guess where the big dollars will be?

The RAN will not be able to match the mining companies when it comes to wages for the next five-ten years IMO, Gnads.   The RAN submarine fleet will continue to languish in port for the foreseeable future.    Roll Eyes


Maintenance staff won't be increased ... there will be the same number of locomotives & rollingstock.  Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #157 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:10pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:23pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley


You're smarter than no one.


Doesn't look that way, Gnads.  Tsk, tsk.  I really don't know why I bother with you, I really don't.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


And me with you ... so ditto you dolt.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #158 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:12pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:26pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


That should read MASTER BATERS DEGREE.

Simply put Brian you're a detestable wanker.



Sorry, Gnads, what was it you typed that was a valued contribution to this thread?  Oh, nothing?  How unusual, hey?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes




As yours was completely supposition ... because you're a self appointed knowall.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #159 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
but you don't have any understanding of the underlying technology except what is written in a brochure at some air show.


Only bothered to attend one show, way back in '88.  Boring as all pooh.   No, I know more than what you find in a brochure.  I am not out to sell anything, unlike like a Defence Contractor.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #160 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:41pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious you do not understand the difference between a strategic and a tactical level system.  Tsk, tsk, run along.  I can hear all your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling back.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian,
a strategic and a tactical level system?
The S-400 & S-300 can do both -
that's why they have to communicate with each other.
One picks up the target and a central command works out which missile battery should fire.

Brian - your masters degree is not showing in this.

tsk  tsk.



What the S-300 and now the S-400 lack is range, Bobby.  Their missiles can fulfill the function of a strategic system (if it is working properly). 





Their radars cannot.  Their range is too short.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #161 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 8:06pm
 
Brian,
cop this video -
the F35 can't beat the S-400 missile system.


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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #162 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm
 
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #163 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:51pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



Hey everyone -
Brian knows more than the person who made the above video -
Brian really is a big deal.



...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #164 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 12:11am
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Hey everyone -
Brian knows more than the person who made the above video -
Brian really is a big deal.


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Bobby.  The man who relies on YouTube videos for his evidence.  Tsk, tsk, get back to us when you've written anything professionally on Australia's defence procurement, OK?   Get back to us when you have academic qualifications in Defence Studies, OK?   I suspect I have more knowledge in my little finger than you have in your whole brain about this topic.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #165 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 6:42am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 12:11am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Hey everyone -
Brian knows more than the person who made the above video -
Brian really is a big deal.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Bobby.
The man who relies on YouTube videos for his evidence.
Tsk, tsk, get back to us when you've written anything professionally on Australia's defence procurement, OK?   Get back to us when you have academic qualifications in Defence Studies, OK?   I suspect I have more knowledge in my little finger than you have in your whole brain about this topic.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes





dear Brian,
many blessings.
You yourself posted 2 Youtube videos.
In any case you only got 5/10 for your very poor answer to my question.
You never mentioned satellites - you didn't know
how the S-400 & S-300 system connect together as part of a giant network.  tsk  tsk.

forgiven

namaste
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #166 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 10:55am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
but you don't have any understanding of the underlying technology except what is written in a brochure at some air show.


Only bothered to attend one show, way back in '88.  Boring as all pooh.   No, I know more than what you find in a brochure.  I am not out to sell anything, unlike like a Defence Contractor.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


What sort of things do you know because most of the technology is not accessible to the general public and certainly not written up anywhere on the net.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #167 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 12:55pm
 




WHY INDIA IS BUYING RUSSIAN S 400 INSTEAD OF AMERICA’S PATRIOT PAC 3 ?


Defense Updates

Published on Jun 27, 2018

INTRODUCTION

India has been in the market for acquiring a long-range air defense system. The idea was to have Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) near the border to counter Pakistani and Chinese aircraft and cruise missiles.

According to reports, India has decided to acquire 5 regiments of Russian-made S-400 Triumf advanced Air Defense Systems and the price has now been finalized.

Currently, Indian and Russian side are working to prevent American sanctions on India under Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) for buying Russian weapons platform.

CAATSA  has been deployed against Russia by the U.S in August 2017 for probable interference in the 2016 presidential election process.

In this video, Defense Updates analyzes why India is buying RUSSIAN S 400 even with risks of U.S sanctions instead of AMERICA’S PATRIOT PAC 3
Let’s get started.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #168 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:25pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 6:42am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 12:11am:
Bobby wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Hey everyone -
Brian knows more than the person who made the above video -
Brian really is a big deal.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Bobby.
The man who relies on YouTube videos for his evidence.
Tsk, tsk, get back to us when you've written anything professionally on Australia's defence procurement, OK?   Get back to us when you have academic qualifications in Defence Studies, OK?   I suspect I have more knowledge in my little finger than you have in your whole brain about this topic.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


dear Brian,
many blessings.
You yourself posted 2 Youtube videos.
In any case you only got 5/10 for your very poor answer to my question.
You never mentioned satellites - you didn't know
how the S-400 & S-300 system connect together as part of a giant network.  tsk  tsk.

forgiven

namaste


I used 2 youtube videos to illustrate the point I was making - the S300 and S400 missiles are not that terribly reliable - just most Russian gear is not that terribly reliable, particularly once you get away from simple mechanical methods.

Bobby, you have failed dismally to show much real understanding of this topic.  I think I'll just leave you here, if that is OK with you?  It'll save any more embarrassment for either of us.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #169 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:27pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 10:55am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:37pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
but you don't have any understanding of the underlying technology except what is written in a brochure at some air show.


Only bothered to attend one show, way back in '88.  Boring as all pooh.   No, I know more than what you find in a brochure.  I am not out to sell anything, unlike like a Defence Contractor.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


What sort of things do you know because most of the technology is not accessible to the general public and certainly not written up anywhere on the net.


If I told you what I know, I'd have to kill you, old chap.

I know sufficient to get me into the conferences and discussion groups...  Wink

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #170 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:33pm
 
Defense Update.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   I've been trying to figure out what angle your favourite YouTube channel was using, Bobby.   I've worked it out now.   It is an Israeli source.   That explains a lot.  Tsk, tsk.   Oh, well, run along now, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #171 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:12pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes



It's not rare at all ya daft blagger.  It would have to be one of the most common post doc courses in Defence and that includes civilians.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #172 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:42pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 5:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


It's not rare at all ya daft blagger.  It would have to be one of the most common post doc courses in Defence and that includes civilians.


I am talking outside of DoD.  Outside of DoD, when you mention "Defence Studies" you usually get asked questions about what it was all about.   Being from ADFA also makes it much more important than from a civvie university.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #173 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 6:17pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:25pm:
I used 2 youtube videos to illustrate the point I was making - the S300 and S400 missiles are not that terribly reliable - just most Russian gear is not that terribly reliable, particularly once you get away from simple mechanical methods.

Bobby, you have failed dismally to show much real understanding of this topic.  I think I'll just leave you here, if that is OK with you?  It'll save any more embarrassment for either of us.   Roll Eyes




Brian,
are you saying that you're kind of a big deal?



...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #174 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:26pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
Defense Update.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   I've been trying to figure out what angle your favourite YouTube channel was using, Bobby.   I've worked it out now.   It is an Israeli source.   That explains a lot.  Tsk, tsk.   Oh, well, run along now, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


what's with the Tsk Tsk all of the time ? Are you gay ? Cheesy LOL
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #175 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:07pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:26pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
Defense Update.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   I've been trying to figure out what angle your favourite YouTube channel was using, Bobby.   I've worked it out now.   It is an Israeli source.   That explains a lot.  Tsk, tsk.   Oh, well, run along now, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


what's with the Tsk Tsk all of the time ? Are you gay ? Cheesy LOL



I don't think so Nail.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #176 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:37pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:07pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:26pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
Defense Update.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   I've been trying to figure out what angle your favourite YouTube channel was using, Bobby.   I've worked it out now.   It is an Israeli source.   That explains a lot.  Tsk, tsk.   Oh, well, run along now, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


what's with the Tsk Tsk all of the time ? Are you gay ? Cheesy LOL



I don't think so Nail.


It is  pretty gay though.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #177 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:48pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:37pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:07pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:26pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
Defense Update.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   I've been trying to figure out what angle your favourite YouTube channel was using, Bobby.   I've worked it out now.   It is an Israeli source.   That explains a lot.  Tsk, tsk.   Oh, well, run along now, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


what's with the Tsk Tsk all of the time ? Are you gay ? Cheesy LOL



I don't think so Nail.


It is  pretty gay though.



Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #178 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:59pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:48pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:37pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:07pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:26pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
Defense Update.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   I've been trying to figure out what angle your favourite YouTube channel was using, Bobby.   I've worked it out now.   It is an Israeli source.   That explains a lot.  Tsk, tsk.   Oh, well, run along now, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


what's with the Tsk Tsk all of the time ? Are you gay ? Cheesy LOL



I don't think so Nail.


It is  pretty gay though.



Not that there's anything wrong with that.


Well, I'd give him a Christian side hug. That wouldn't be too gay.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #179 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 10:05pm
 
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:59pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:48pm:
Cu Chullain wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:37pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 8:07pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 7:26pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
Defense Update.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   I've been trying to figure out what angle your favourite YouTube channel was using, Bobby.   I've worked it out now.   It is an Israeli source.   That explains a lot.  Tsk, tsk.   Oh, well, run along now, Bobby.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


what's with the Tsk Tsk all of the time ? Are you gay ? Cheesy LOL



I don't think so Nail.


It is  pretty gay though.



Not that there's anything wrong with that.


Well, I'd give him a Christian side hug. That wouldn't be too gay.




Real men ride bikes fast:


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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #180 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 12:25am
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 6:17pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 7th, 2018 at 4:25pm:
I used 2 youtube videos to illustrate the point I was making - the S300 and S400 missiles are not that terribly reliable - just most Russian gear is not that terribly reliable, particularly once you get away from simple mechanical methods.

Bobby, you have failed dismally to show much real understanding of this topic.  I think I'll just leave you here, if that is OK with you?  It'll save any more embarrassment for either of us.   Roll Eyes


Brian,
are you saying that you're kind of a big deal?


Nope.  I am merely more knowledgeable than you, Bobby.   You're just ignorant.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #181 - Oct 8th, 2018 at 5:53am
 

Brian,
are you saying that you're kind of a big deal?



...
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #182 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm
 
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #183 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:07pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 



And I was right:

The Submarine Institute of Australia president, Mark Sander, a former Oberon submariner, said it can be difficult to attract people to the job, despite the high salaries, because of the unique working conditions.

Submariners can be at sea for months on end without sunlight and they spend long periods away from family.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #184 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:56pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 



And I was right:

The Submarine Institute of Australia president, Mark Sander, a former Oberon submariner, said it can be difficult to attract people to the job, despite the high salaries, because of the unique working conditions.

Submariners can be at sea for months on end without sunlight and they spend long periods away from family.



Errr, that was basically what I said, Bobby.  Please be original.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

That newspaper report supports everything I've said, Bobby - Crews are the major limiting factor on how long a submarine can spend at sea on Operations.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #185 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:59pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 



And I was right:

The Submarine Institute of Australia president, Mark Sander, a former Oberon submariner, said it can be difficult to attract people to the job, despite the high salaries, because of the unique working conditions.

Submariners can be at sea for months on end without sunlight and they spend long periods away from family.



Errr, that was basically what I said, Bobby.  Please be original.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

That newspaper report supports everything I've said, Bobby - Crews are the major limiting factor on how long a submarine can spend at sea on Operations.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Why don't they pay them huge bucks?
They should pay them at least $200k per annum.
It's a dangerous job stuck inside a claustrophobic sub full of homos.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #186 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 7:51pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 



And I was right:

The Submarine Institute of Australia president, Mark Sander, a former Oberon submariner, said it can be difficult to attract people to the job, despite the high salaries, because of the unique working conditions.

Submariners can be at sea for months on end without sunlight and they spend long periods away from family.



Errr, that was basically what I said, Bobby.  Please be original.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

That newspaper report supports everything I've said, Bobby - Crews are the major limiting factor on how long a submarine can spend at sea on Operations.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Why don't they pay them huge bucks?
They should pay them at least $200k per annum.
It's a dangerous job stuck inside a claustrophobic sub full of homos.


And blow out the Defence budget, Bobby?

Would be much easier if they moved their home base to Sydney, rather than Perth.  More people live in the East than the West.  Most people would be willing to serve there than in Perth.

They are already amongst the three highest paid groups in the ADF, Bobby.  They are paid the equivalent of the Army's "Special Forces" diggers and the Air Forces' pilots IIRC.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #187 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 8:17pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 7:51pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 



And I was right:

The Submarine Institute of Australia president, Mark Sander, a former Oberon submariner, said it can be difficult to attract people to the job, despite the high salaries, because of the unique working conditions.

Submariners can be at sea for months on end without sunlight and they spend long periods away from family.



Errr, that was basically what I said, Bobby.  Please be original.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

That newspaper report supports everything I've said, Bobby - Crews are the major limiting factor on how long a submarine can spend at sea on Operations.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Why don't they pay them huge bucks?
They should pay them at least $200k per annum.
It's a dangerous job stuck inside a claustrophobic sub full of homos.


And blow out the Defence budget, Bobby?

Would be much easier if they moved their home base to Sydney, rather than Perth.  More people live in the East than the West.  Most people would be willing to serve there than in Perth.

They are already amongst the three highest paid groups in the ADF, Bobby.  They are paid the equivalent of the Army's "Special Forces" diggers and the Air Forces' pilots IIRC.



It's not enough to lure them.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #188 - Oct 9th, 2018 at 9:26pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Why don't they pay them huge bucks?
They should pay them at least $200k per annum.
It's a dangerous job stuck inside a claustrophobic sub full of homos.


Have you got a little stiffy now, Gobby?

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #189 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:05pm
 
Ok Tsk Tsk explain this one. How does an F117 end up in chinese hands ?



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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #190 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:28pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:05pm:
Ok Tsk Tsk explain this one. How does an F117 end up in chinese hands ?


By having a stupid mission planner along with a stupid pilot who fly the same route - exactly - on each mission they undertake?

By being shot down by Serbian gunners who are awake to what the F-117 are doing each night, flying the same route at the same height?

By thinking that "stealh" made them invisible to all and sundry who weren't using their Mk.1 Eyeballs?

The Chinese bought the remains of the F-117 off the Serbs after the USAF bombed their embassy in Belgrade.   Funny how money talks, isn't it?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #191 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:37pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:05pm:
Ok Tsk Tsk explain this one. How does an F117 end up in chinese hands ?


By having a stupid mission planner along with a stupid pilot who fly the same route - exactly - on each mission they undertake?

By being shot down by Serbian gunners who are awake to what the F-117 are doing each night, flying the same route at the same height?

By thinking that "stealh" made them invisible to all and sundry who weren't using their Mk.1 Eyeballs?

The Chinese bought the remains of the F-117 off the Serbs after the USAF bombed their embassy in Belgrade.   Funny how money talks, isn't it?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Unless it's a fake news video?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #192 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:54pm
 
Bobby wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:05pm:
Ok Tsk Tsk explain this one. How does an F117 end up in chinese hands ?


By having a stupid mission planner along with a stupid pilot who fly the same route - exactly - on each mission they undertake?

By being shot down by Serbian gunners who are awake to what the F-117 are doing each night, flying the same route at the same height?

By thinking that "stealh" made them invisible to all and sundry who weren't using their Mk.1 Eyeballs?

The Chinese bought the remains of the F-117 off the Serbs after the USAF bombed their embassy in Belgrade.   Funny how money talks, isn't it?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Unless it's a fake news video?


Who cares?  The F-117 is technology that is over 40 years old, Bobby.  It was the first iteration of Stealth.  It was when computer technology (used to design the aircraft) was relatively primitive.   It is why the aircraft is so faceted.  Nowadays, with more advanced computer technology aircraft can be designed much more rounded in form, with better reflectivity.  My PC has substantially more computing power than the computers they used to design the F-117.   Roll Eyes
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #193 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 3:08pm
 
But Brian,
It's the properties of the lossy ferrite paint used that is
of most interest.
You're obviously not a technical person.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #194 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 3:13pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 7:51pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 



And I was right:

The Submarine Institute of Australia president, Mark Sander, a former Oberon submariner, said it can be difficult to attract people to the job, despite the high salaries, because of the unique working conditions.

Submariners can be at sea for months on end without sunlight and they spend long periods away from family.



Errr, that was basically what I said, Bobby.  Please be original.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

That newspaper report supports everything I've said, Bobby - Crews are the major limiting factor on how long a submarine can spend at sea on Operations.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Why don't they pay them huge bucks?
They should pay them at least $200k per annum.
It's a dangerous job stuck inside a claustrophobic sub full of homos.


And blow out the Defence budget, Bobby?

Would be much easier if they moved their home base to Sydney, rather than Perth.  More people live in the East than the West.  Most people would be willing to serve there than in Perth.

They are already amongst the three highest paid groups in the ADF, Bobby.  They are paid the equivalent of the Army's "Special Forces" diggers and the Air Forces' pilots IIRC.


Why? If the ADF can finance gender reassignment surgeries for it's staff it can pay it's submariners a decent wicket.

How many submariners are required for 6 to 8 subs?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #195 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 3:23pm
 
Gnads wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 3:13pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 7:51pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 9th, 2018 at 6:02pm:
Now, what I saying about crew shortages for the submarines being a limiting factor?  Mmmm?   Roll Eyes

Crew shortage could leave Australia's new submarines high and dry – report 



And I was right:

The Submarine Institute of Australia president, Mark Sander, a former Oberon submariner, said it can be difficult to attract people to the job, despite the high salaries, because of the unique working conditions.

Submariners can be at sea for months on end without sunlight and they spend long periods away from family.



Errr, that was basically what I said, Bobby.  Please be original.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

That newspaper report supports everything I've said, Bobby - Crews are the major limiting factor on how long a submarine can spend at sea on Operations.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Why don't they pay them huge bucks?
They should pay them at least $200k per annum.
It's a dangerous job stuck inside a claustrophobic sub full of homos.


And blow out the Defence budget, Bobby?

Would be much easier if they moved their home base to Sydney, rather than Perth.  More people live in the East than the West.  Most people would be willing to serve there than in Perth.

They are already amongst the three highest paid groups in the ADF, Bobby.  They are paid the equivalent of the Army's "Special Forces" diggers and the Air Forces' pilots IIRC.


Why? If the ADF can finance gender reassignment surgeries for it's staff it can pay it's submariners a decent wicket.

How many submariners are required for 6 to 8 subs?




The cost of paying say $200K per annum for the submariners is cheap
compared to the $billions they are spending on the subs.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #196 - Oct 10th, 2018 at 3:24pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
Bobby wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:37pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 2:28pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 10th, 2018 at 12:05pm:
Ok Tsk Tsk explain this one. How does an F117 end up in chinese hands ?


By having a stupid mission planner along with a stupid pilot who fly the same route - exactly - on each mission they undertake?

By being shot down by Serbian gunners who are awake to what the F-117 are doing each night, flying the same route at the same height?

By thinking that "stealh" made them invisible to all and sundry who weren't using their Mk.1 Eyeballs?

The Chinese bought the remains of the F-117 off the Serbs after the USAF bombed their embassy in Belgrade.   Funny how money talks, isn't it?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Unless it's a fake news video?


Who cares?  The F-117 is technology that is over 40 years old, Bobby.  It was the first iteration of Stealth.  It was when computer technology (used to design the aircraft) was relatively primitive.   It is why the aircraft is so faceted.  Nowadays, with more advanced computer technology aircraft can be designed much more rounded in form, with better reflectivity.  My PC has substantially more computing power than the computers they used to design the F-117.   Roll Eyes




But Brian,
It's the properties of the lossy ferrite paint used that is
of most interest.
You're obviously not a technical person.
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