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First F-35 fighter jet crash (Read 27819 times)
Stig
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #60 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:42pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Hi CC,
the F111 couldn't survive the modern battlefield.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f35-stealth-fighters-in-c...


F-35 stealth fighters in combat for the first time


THE defeat of a Russian air defence weapon in Syria may now have a cause: Israel has revealed it has unleashed its F-35 strike fighters for the first time.
Jamie Seidel
News Corp Australia NetworkMay 24, 20189:18pm


SYRIA insisted it could defend itself. Russia said it had provided the means.
But Israel’s air strikes have been spectacularly successful. Now we know why.

Israel’s air force commander has said recent strikes against Iranian targets in and around the Syrian capital of Damascus were conducted by the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter.

It’s the first time the new combat jet has gone into action anywhere in the world.

“The F-35 squadron has become an operational squadron,” Major General Amikam Norkin told Haaretz earlier this week.

“We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East and have already attacked twice on two different fronts.”

Israel has dubbed its version of the F-35 the “Adir” (meaning ‘mighty one’).


Haarets says it has seen images of the F-35 flying over Beirut in Lebanon. It also says Major Norkin said the stealth fighter did not participate in the most recent air raids last week. But it did during the previous two.

The newspaper says more than 100 missiles have been fired — in vain — by Syrian air defences.

It’s an indication the F-35 is coming out on top in its battle against Russian-built defences.

RUSSIAN AGAINST US TECHNOLOGY

The prospect of the F-35 flying through some of Syria’s most defended air space raises the likelihood that it has faced some of Russia’s best export weaponry — and defeated it.

Damascus is one of the most heavily protected cities in the world.

It’s armed with a variety of missile systems — both new and old — by its ally, Russia.


Yes it could if it was used in it's primary role as an under the radar strike aircraft. It was called the "Pig" for a reason. It could fly from Darwin to Jakarta and back under the radar. I was blessed to watch the F-111 doing terrain following around Kyogle. Magnificent aircraft.


"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #61 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)
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Cu Chulainn
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #62 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:42pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 30th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Hi CC,
the F111 couldn't survive the modern battlefield.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/f35-stealth-fighters-in-c...


F-35 stealth fighters in combat for the first time


THE defeat of a Russian air defence weapon in Syria may now have a cause: Israel has revealed it has unleashed its F-35 strike fighters for the first time.
Jamie Seidel
News Corp Australia NetworkMay 24, 20189:18pm


SYRIA insisted it could defend itself. Russia said it had provided the means.
But Israel’s air strikes have been spectacularly successful. Now we know why.

Israel’s air force commander has said recent strikes against Iranian targets in and around the Syrian capital of Damascus were conducted by the F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter.

It’s the first time the new combat jet has gone into action anywhere in the world.

“The F-35 squadron has become an operational squadron,” Major General Amikam Norkin told Haaretz earlier this week.

“We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East and have already attacked twice on two different fronts.”

Israel has dubbed its version of the F-35 the “Adir” (meaning ‘mighty one’).


Haarets says it has seen images of the F-35 flying over Beirut in Lebanon. It also says Major Norkin said the stealth fighter did not participate in the most recent air raids last week. But it did during the previous two.

The newspaper says more than 100 missiles have been fired — in vain — by Syrian air defences.

It’s an indication the F-35 is coming out on top in its battle against Russian-built defences.

RUSSIAN AGAINST US TECHNOLOGY

The prospect of the F-35 flying through some of Syria’s most defended air space raises the likelihood that it has faced some of Russia’s best export weaponry — and defeated it.

Damascus is one of the most heavily protected cities in the world.

It’s armed with a variety of missile systems — both new and old — by its ally, Russia.


Yes it could if it was used in it's primary role as an under the radar strike aircraft. It was called the "Pig" for a reason. It could fly from Darwin to Jakarta and back under the radar. I was blessed to watch the F-111 doing terrain following around Kyogle. Magnificent aircraft.


"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.


True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #63 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #64 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:03pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?


I don't know, maybe our ships do, but we should and the F-111 hasd the payload capacity to carry them.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #65 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:05pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:03pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?


I don't know, maybe our ships do, but we should and the F-111 hasd the payload capacity to carry them.



We'd have to design our own.
I don't know if we're that smart.
I doubt the Yanks would sell us any Tomahawk cruise missiles
even though they are 1980s technology.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #66 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:05pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:03pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:50pm:
True but the payload capacity of the F-111 would allow it to carry cruise missiles if it was engineered for it, under the radar for long enough would work very well in that case and fighter cover could be given without refuel 900k on the way there and back. With refuelling... None of out planes can carry the payload of the F-111. Instead of a strike fighter, it should be hailed for what it is, a strike bomber.




Do we have any cruise missiles?


I don't know, maybe our ships do, but we should and the F-111 hasd the payload capacity to carry them.



We'd have to design our own.
I don't know if we're that smart.
I doubt the Yanks would sell us any Tomahawk cruise missiles
even though they are 1980s technology.


They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #67 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:20pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm:
They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.





And I think it's more than that -
the Tomahawk uses satellite information to allow
a type of terrain following radar system plus GPS.
We don't have the satellite info & during times of war
the GPS info has a deliberate random error put into it.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #68 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:20pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm:
They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.





And I think it's more than that -
the Tomahawk uses satellite information to allow
a type of terrain following radar system plus GPS.
We don't have the satellite info & during times of war
the GPS info has a deliberate random error put into it.


We use their GPS now though. That's not a problem unless we dump them as allies. Do you think China and Russia rely on US GPS?
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #69 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:42pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:33pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:20pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 9:11pm:
They sell them to the Brits. The yanks don't give us all their tech, we have always had to provide our own to enhance what they sell us.





And I think it's more than that -
the Tomahawk uses satellite information to allow
a type of terrain following radar system plus GPS.
We don't have the satellite info & during times of war
the GPS info has a deliberate random error put into it.


We use their GPS now though. That's not a problem unless we dump them as allies. Do you think China and Russia rely on US GPS?


I think China & Russia have their own GPS satellites.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #70 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #71 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm
 
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #72 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:32pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.




The Tornados went in at low level before all the SAM sites were taken out and were hit by AAA.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #73 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:46pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:32pm:
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:13pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:47pm:
Stig wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 8:28pm:
"Under the radar" doesn't work very well anymore, and certainly not against modern fighters. And nobody flies expensive aircraft and even more expensive pilots over a target in a modern battlefield.




Really?
What if the F35 takes out all the SAM sites first and opens the skies for all other aircraft?

Those were the tactics used in the Gulf war 1.  ( in 1991)


Didn't stop the brits losing half a dozen Tornados, an aircraft designed to do pretty much what the F-111 does.


The f-117 that led the charge was not designed to do the job of the F-111. The F-117 led the bombing to take out radar but Tornadoes are not under the radar strike bombers which is why they needed the radar/anti aircraft batteries taken out by the 117s.




The Tornados went in at low level before all the SAM sites were taken out and were hit by AAA.


The 117s were supposed to destroy the AA radar. They were sent in first. To equate a Tornado with an F-111 that would need air bound radar to detect it as it could fly a couple of 100ft off the ground... I've had them fly over me. They used to do terrain following over the hills around Kyogle.

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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #74 - Oct 1st, 2018 at 11:02pm
 
Cu Chulainn wrote on Oct 1st, 2018 at 10:46pm:
The 117s were supposed to destroy the AA radar. They were sent in first. To equate a Tornado with an F-111 that would need air bound radar to detect it as it could fly a couple of 100ft off the ground... I've had them fly over me. They used to do terrain following over the hills around Kyogle.





True -

That aside -
the problem with the F35s will be the requirement for air tankers.
They are easy to spot on radar and would lead enemy planes straight to our F35s.
If the air tanker are shot down the F35s will run out of fuel
and end up ditched in the sea or wherever.
It's a major weakness.
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