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First F-35 fighter jet crash (Read 27570 times)
Bobby.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #150 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:15pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 4:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


OK Brian,
I will give you a chance to prove yourself.
In the quote made below:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/asia/india-s400-deal-intl/index.html

Quote:
The Turkey deal has caused consternation in Washington, where a bipartisan group of lawmakers have attempted to block the transfer of the US' F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Turkey, citing security concerns.
US defense officials believe once operational, the S-400 could be used to gather technical data on US designed fighter planes and that critical information could be passed to Moscow either intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system.
India's purchase of the S-400 may result in the US refusing to sell "advanced fighter aircraft types" to Delhi in the future, said Layton.



What are they referring to when they say?

"intentionally or unintentionally through a back door in the Russian designed system."

I know the answer so - you tell us all and then I'll give the real answer.
It won't be on Google so don't bother looking.



Oh, dearie, dearie me.  Well Bobby, what it means is that the Russians might get out of their S-400 system the stealth "signatures" of stealth systems if they were sold by the US to India.    They could design their systems to accept a remote login from a system outside the Indian system and download all the information it has been either programmed with or it has detected when operating with these hypothetical systems that the US might sell to India.  They could either do this overtly or covertly.

Personally, I think the yanks are going a bit over the top.  Stealth systems are not the holy grail they are being made out to be.  The Russians have this knowledge, indeed there is quite a bit of evidence that they were the first to propose such a system, way back in the 1970s.  It appears to be their way of warning off the Russians as potential competitors.  Tsk, tsk.  Roll Eyes



That's close but you never mentioned how they would do it?

Here's the answer.
The S-400 system would be designed to operate with many other S-400 systems including the S-300 system.
They have to communicate to do that.
All war machines have redundant comms. systems.
One way is to use ordinary radio communication in HF & UHF bands -
another is to use satellites.
I would not be surprised if the S-400 & S-300 use all 3 types.

The Indians would need to fly the F35 over a S-400 system to check the radar signature
& to see what radar bands give any signature.
The Russians may be able to clandestinely upload all the
data via satellite without the Indians knowing.
They could also do this in real time and use Russian satellites to
to look for any F35 signature obtainable from space -
Russian satellites.
Such information would be invaluable in a time of war.
In may very well be that a longer wavelength than is used
by the S-400 system would be better at picking it up.
The Russians will obtain this knowledge & defeat any stealth capability of the F35.

The Israelis recently took out targets in Syria using F35s.
No doubt - the Russians got lots of information from the S-300
systems stationed there.

Anyway Brian - your answer was incomplete so I'll give you a pass
but only 5 out of 10.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #151 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:43pm
 
Bobby, Bobby, why would the Indians allow the Russians to institute satellite comm systems in their air-defence systems when they don't use satellites themselves?  Why pay for something which you will never use?

Air Defence Systems do not, BTW, use satellite comms to communicate with one another.  They use cable or wireless (short range) data links.  Air Defence systems do not need to communicate more than a few hundred kilometres - at most.   Why?  'cause you don't design an Air Defence system which would be placed more than a few hundred kilometres from it's nearest neighbour.   There is simply no need for that, except in a Strategic air defence system and the S-400 is strictly speaking a tactical Air Defence System.

You do, understand the difference, I hope, Bobby between a "tactical" and a "strategic" level system?
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Bobby.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #152 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:52pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:43pm:
Bobby, Bobby, why would the Indians allow the Russians to institute satellite comm systems in their air-defence systems when they don't use satellites themselves?  Why pay for something which you will never use?

Air Defence Systems do not, BTW, use satellite comms to communicate with one another.  They use cable or wireless (short range) data links.  Air Defence systems do not need to communicate more than a few hundred kilometres - at most.   Why?  'cause you don't design an Air Defence system which would be placed more than a few hundred kilometres from it's nearest neighbour.   There is simply no need for that, except in a Strategic air defence system and the S-400 is strictly speaking a tactical Air Defence System.

You do, understand the difference, I hope, Bobby between a "tactical" and a "strategic" level system?




Brian,
space is the place - I assure you that he who holds the high ground wins.
Of course they use satellites.
The Indians do have satellites.

tsk  tsk.
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Brian Ross
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #153 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:02pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:43pm:
Bobby, Bobby, why would the Indians allow the Russians to institute satellite comm systems in their air-defence systems when they don't use satellites themselves?  Why pay for something which you will never use?

Air Defence Systems do not, BTW, use satellite comms to communicate with one another.  They use cable or wireless (short range) data links.  Air Defence systems do not need to communicate more than a few hundred kilometres - at most.   Why?  'cause you don't design an Air Defence system which would be placed more than a few hundred kilometres from it's nearest neighbour.   There is simply no need for that, except in a Strategic air defence system and the S-400 is strictly speaking a tactical Air Defence System.

You do, understand the difference, I hope, Bobby between a "tactical" and a "strategic" level system?


Brian,
space is the place - I assure you that he who holds the high ground wins.
Of course they use satellites.
The Indians do have satellites.

tsk  tsk.


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious you do not understand the difference between a strategic and a tactical level system.  Tsk, tsk, run along.  I can hear all your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling back.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Sir lastnail
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #154 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:04pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 3:05pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


dear Brian,
since this an anonymous forum there is no way you can prove any qualifications -
one of the reasons I don't boast about my own.
You are still my student:


No, I am not, Bobby.

I do not boast, i inform.  I am proud of my Masters as it is in a rare subject - Defence Studies.   It is why I know so much about Defence matters.  Far more than dilettantes like you, Bobby.   Roll Eyes


but you don't have any understanding of the underlying technology except what is written in a brochure at some air show.
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Bobby.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #155 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:05pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious you do not understand the difference between a strategic and a tactical level system.  Tsk, tsk, run along.  I can hear all your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling back.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian,
a strategic and a tactical level system?
The S-400 & S-300 can do both -
that's why they have to communicate with each other.
One picks up the target and a central command works out which missile battery should fire.

Brian - your masters degree is not showing in this.

tsk  tsk.
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Gnads
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #156 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:08pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:22pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 9:58am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:24pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 4th, 2018 at 6:11pm:
I don't care what you say Brian,
I want my tax payers money to be putting 5 out of 6 subs in the deep blue sea at all times - 24 hours per day  365 days per year -

having only 1 sub out there sometimes, is a huge embarrassment -
heads should roll.


I agree .... 3 out of six subs should be at sea at staggered intervals whilst others are on shore leave & for maintenance.



Fine in theory - if there are sufficient crews, Gnads.  Unfortunately, the Mining Boom put paid to that.   We are slowly recovering from that.  Slowly - something you don't seem to take into account - the amount of time it takes to train submarine crewmen.   Roll Eyes



Roll Eyes more repetition Brian. The mining boom has been ... there have been staff reductions all over the industry of late. Technology innit.

Driverless trains, driverless dump trucks ... etc etc


And who maintains the trains, the dump trucks, keeps their engines working, Gnads?  You do realise there is still quite a market for people trained in heavy diesel engine maintenance and so on?   Or don't you?  Do you think that the trains/trucks just roll out of their sheds, lacking it appears according to you, drivers without ever having any maintenance undertaken on them?  Really?  Gnads, you really are ignorant, aren't you?

Oh, and "driverless systems" are still in their infancy, in the real world.   Some big advances have been made but no one is really implementing such systems on a wide scale, yet.

Run along, Gnads, I heard your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling you.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


That's still a massive reduction in operational staff you dolt.

You're one of the tossers that follows the downward trend in employment opportunities and conditions to the lowest common denominator and think it good.

As for the introduction of driverless technology being in its infancy then you are as mistaken as you claim I am regarding the F35.

The trialing & experimentation with driverless trains in the iron ore industry has been going on for decades ... Rio Tinto have already started it in the Pilbara & the bug ironing out is just about completed.

BHP are set to follow.

I have 45 years in the rail industry ... you?

Naff off you patronising condescending twerp.


I have no experience in the rail industry, Gnads.  However, I read the IT press and as far as I am aware, driverless technology is still in it's relative infancy.   Rio has only been trialling this for about the last 5 years.   AIUI they are still undertaking trial implementations.  The Unions will prevent them from implementing it on a widescale though, I do not doubt.

The number of operating staff might be decreasing as a consequence but the number of maintenance staff will actually increase as a consequence.   You will require staff to not only maintain the motive sources but the operating systems and comms.   Guess where the big dollars will be?

The RAN will not be able to match the mining companies when it comes to wages for the next five-ten years IMO, Gnads.   The RAN submarine fleet will continue to languish in port for the foreseeable future.    Roll Eyes


Maintenance staff won't be increased ... there will be the same number of locomotives & rollingstock.  Roll Eyes
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Gnads
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #157 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:10pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:23pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 7:14pm:
Brian,
you have a superiority complex.
You're not that smart.


Oh, I agree with you, Bobby.  I'm just smarter than you and Gnads and most other people here on this topic...   Smiley


You're smarter than no one.


Doesn't look that way, Gnads.  Tsk, tsk.  I really don't know why I bother with you, I really don't.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


And me with you ... so ditto you dolt.
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Gnads
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #158 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:12pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 6:26pm:
Gnads wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 5:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 2:27pm:
Bobby. wrote on Oct 5th, 2018 at 11:31pm:
Brian,
you're ignorant.


Am I?  You have thus far failed to prove I am ignorant, Bobby.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
The mining companies are not paying more it's
just that submarines are horrible claustrophobic places
and they are extremely dangerous to be in.
Did you hear about the Collins that was nearly lost at sea?
Who would want to serve in an underwater coffin?


Nearly, is not certain, Bobby.  I've known quite a few submariners.  They were more than happy to serve on Oberons and Collins class boats - the pay was simply better onloand than on the boats so, guess which won in the end?   Safety is a concern in any profession, the Navy more than many.  Submarines are dangerous but we have yet to lose a boat thankfully.

Quote:
The F35 may if fact turn out to be the best aeroplane but
it's by no means assured.
It has failed to meet many of it's prerequisite capabilities.
The Govts. just changed the goal posts in the match so
that the F35 would pass.
It's too heavy, too slow & it can't climb nearly as fast as previous aircraft.
It's not perfectly stealthy either.
Many of its missions would have to be carried
out by tomahawk cruise missiles -
especially to destroy the S-400 missile systems from Russia.


Well, we thankfully aren't yet going up against anyone armed with the S-400 system, Bobby and more than likely won't.  The Russians don't give away such expensive SAMs without making their recipients pay the full tote odds for them.

Quote:
Brian - you are forgiven but I feel
you are a worthy student to teach.

namaste


You have nothing to teach me, Bobby.  I snatched the pebbles from the hands of my real teachers over 20 years ago when I was awarded my Master of Defence Studies degree.   Teachers I must add who far surpass anything you know.  Funny that, hey?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


That should read MASTER BATERS DEGREE.

Simply put Brian you're a detestable wanker.



Sorry, Gnads, what was it you typed that was a valued contribution to this thread?  Oh, nothing?  How unusual, hey?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes




As yours was completely supposition ... because you're a self appointed knowall.
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Brian Ross
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #159 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:04pm:
but you don't have any understanding of the underlying technology except what is written in a brochure at some air show.


Only bothered to attend one show, way back in '88.  Boring as all pooh.   No, I know more than what you find in a brochure.  I am not out to sell anything, unlike like a Defence Contractor.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #160 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:41pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:05pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  It is obvious you do not understand the difference between a strategic and a tactical level system.  Tsk, tsk, run along.  I can hear all your little friends in the little kiddies' playground calling back.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian,
a strategic and a tactical level system?
The S-400 & S-300 can do both -
that's why they have to communicate with each other.
One picks up the target and a central command works out which missile battery should fire.

Brian - your masters degree is not showing in this.

tsk  tsk.



What the S-300 and now the S-400 lack is range, Bobby.  Their missiles can fulfill the function of a strategic system (if it is working properly). 





Their radars cannot.  Their range is too short.
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Bobby.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #161 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 8:06pm
 
Brian,
cop this video -
the F35 can't beat the S-400 missile system.


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Brian Ross
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #162 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm
 
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #163 - Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:51pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



Hey everyone -
Brian knows more than the person who made the above video -
Brian really is a big deal.



...
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Brian Ross
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Re: First F-35 fighter jet crash
Reply #164 - Oct 7th, 2018 at 12:11am
 
Bobby. wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 10:51pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
Youtube videos are not very good for making valid analysis of anything, Bobby.  Run along, lets see you find some real evidence.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes


Hey everyone -
Brian knows more than the person who made the above video -
Brian really is a big deal.


...

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Bobby.  The man who relies on YouTube videos for his evidence.  Tsk, tsk, get back to us when you've written anything professionally on Australia's defence procurement, OK?   Get back to us when you have academic qualifications in Defence Studies, OK?   I suspect I have more knowledge in my little finger than you have in your whole brain about this topic.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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