Australian Politics Forum - Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim

Yadda

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Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Sep 24^th, 2018 at 8:29pm

Don't kid yourself, Ahmadi moslems are not 'victims'.

Don't kid yourself, Ahmadis wouldn't be the victims [of other moslems], if the Ahmadis were in the majority!

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1494637913/70#70
Quote:

QUESTION;......

Do Ahmadis revere a different Mohammed, or read a different Koran, or worship a different Allah ?

A.

No they do not !

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1494637913/75#75
Quote:

Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victims'.

They are simply another group of moslems, who are engaged in conflict with those who do not believe as they believe.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #1 - Sep 24^th, 2018 at 9:36pm

Between the many different sects of ISLAM, there are many fatal differences in the intricacies of how faith must be followed, and which beliefs are acceptable [within the 'tribe'].

e.g.
Differences in the intricacies of faith, as are practiced by Sunnis, versus Ahmadis.

But these differences always 'boil down' to the same common denominator between differing moslem faith groups;
"If they don't accept our interpretation of ISLAM, then clearly, they are filthy disbelievers, and worthy of death - at our hands.
Our Allah, is greater than their Allah!!!"

e.g.
Quote:

"Muslims have been repeating themselves time and time again that Ahmadis are not considered Muslims for a variety of reasons: ...."

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/forum/aqeedah-refutation-of-deviant-sects/18633-t...

e.g.
SYRIA: An example of moslems slaughtering moslems...
...and an example of moslems justifying this slaughter, as a moslem war against infidels.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1333935983/0#0

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Auggie

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #2 - Sep 26^th, 2018 at 6:56pm

The fact is that they are a minority, which is the important fact here. There is no fundamental reason to have any immigration policy which restricts Ahmadi Muslims. They pose no threat to the Australian way of life.

They believe in separation of church and state; they believe in using the Pen as Jihad.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #3 - Sep 26^th, 2018 at 7:31pm

Auggie wrote on Sep 26^th, 2018 at 6:56pm:

The fact is that they are a minority, which is the important fact here. There is no fundamental reason to have any immigration policy which restricts Ahmadi Muslims. They pose no threat to the Australian way of life.

They believe in separation of church and state; they believe in using the Pen as Jihad.

Will an Ahmadi muslim allow his daughter to marry a non muslim?

How are they going to fit in when their religion forbids them from forming relationships with non muslims?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #4 - Sep 26^th, 2018 at 8:05pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 26^th, 2018 at 7:31pm:

Auggie wrote on Sep 26^th, 2018 at 6:56pm:

The fact is that they are a minority, which is the important fact here. There is no fundamental reason to have any immigration policy which restricts Ahmadi Muslims. They pose no threat to the Australian way of life.

They believe in separation of church and state; they believe in using the Pen as Jihad.

Will an Ahmadi muslim allow his daughter to marry a non muslim?

How are they going to fit in when their religion forbids them from forming relationships with non muslims?

Have you got your eyes on someone?

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Auggie

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #5 - Sep 26^th, 2018 at 9:43pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 26^th, 2018 at 7:31pm:

Auggie wrote on Sep 26^th, 2018 at 6:56pm:

The fact is that they are a minority, which is the important fact here. There is no fundamental reason to have any immigration policy which restricts Ahmadi Muslims. They pose no threat to the Australian way of life.

They believe in separation of church and state; they believe in using the Pen as Jihad.

Will an Ahmadi muslim allow his daughter to marry a non muslim?

How are they going to fit in when their religion forbids them from forming relationships with non muslims?

Would an orthodox Christian allow his daughter to marry a non orthodox?

I don’t know.

It depends on the individual doesn’t it?

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moses

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #6 - Sep 27^th, 2018 at 2:14pm

What do the Ahmadi intend to do with the innumerable verses in the qur'an which motivate islamic terrorism?

Do they repeat the tired old lies of: interpretation, radicalization, nothing to do wiv islam, you can't translate it cos it's written in Arabic, islam is a weligion of peece, (name your preferred excuse here)?

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Yadda

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #7 - Sep 27^th, 2018 at 2:45pm

moses wrote on Sep 27^th, 2018 at 2:14pm:

What do the Ahmadi intend to do with the innumerable verses in the qur'an which motivate islamic terrorism?

The 1/ immutable and 2/ inerrant Koran verses.

Both 1 & 2, relating to the Koran, are insisted as being true by the moslem.

Dictionary;
immutable = = unchanging or unchangeable.

Dictionary;
inerrant = = incapable of being wrong.

Google;
quran verses, attributed, the unaltered and direct words of allah

.

Verses from the immutable and inerrant Koran

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred...."
Koran 58.22

"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers."
Koran 9.23

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Auggie

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #8 - Sep 27^th, 2018 at 6:06pm

moses wrote on Sep 27^th, 2018 at 2:14pm:

What do the Ahmadi intend to do with the innumerable verses in the qur'an which motivate islamic terrorism?

Do they repeat the tired old lies of: interpretation, radicalization, nothing to do wiv islam, you can't translate it cos it's written in Arabic, islam is a weligion of peece, (name your preferred excuse here)?

So, here is where you are, dare I say, not understanding the intricacies of the Ahmadi movement. Mirza Ahmad the founder of the movement, provided theological sanctions for the purging of Islam's more radical and violent teachings.

Ahmadis fundamentally believe in separation of church and state, and have obliterated the concept of aggressive jihad. These are all in the teachings of the Ahmadis.

I don't see how this is really any different to the Jewish tradition of Rabbinic Judaism where Rabbis have been able to interpret the Torah over time and issue different rulings.

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Auggie

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #9 - Sep 27^th, 2018 at 6:08pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 27^th, 2018 at 2:45pm:

moses wrote on Sep 27^th, 2018 at 2:14pm:

What do the Ahmadi intend to do with the innumerable verses in the qur'an which motivate islamic terrorism?

The 1/ immutable and 2/ inerrant Koran verses.

Both 1 & 2, relating to the Koran, are insisted as being true by the moslem.

Dictionary;
immutable = = unchanging or unchangeable.

Dictionary;
inerrant = = incapable of being wrong.

Google;
quran verses, attributed, the unaltered and direct words of allah

.

Verses from the immutable and inerrant Koran

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred...."
Koran 58.22

"O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers."
Koran 9.23

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

And so, if a person comes along whose followers believe he is the redeemer and has authority on scriptural matters, and then denounces the violence of that scripture, are you saying that has no bearing at all on the beliefs of said followers?

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Yadda

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #10 - Sep 27^th, 2018 at 9:15pm

Auggie wrote on Sep 27^th, 2018 at 6:08pm:

And so, if a person comes along whose followers believe he is the redeemer and has authority on scriptural matters, and then denounces the violence of that scripture, are you saying that has no bearing at all on the beliefs of said followers?

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

Google;
Shahada, confession of faith, of a muslim

"There is no god except for Allah alone; and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."

Q.
How does a moslem denounce these verses of the Koran Auggie,
and remain a moslem ?

------ >

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

Auggie,

To be a moslem, a believer must accept that the verses of the Koran are 1/ immutable and 2/ inerrant.

Dictionary;
immutable = = unchanging or unchangeable.

Dictionary;
inerrant = = incapable of being wrong.

Google;
quran verses, attributed, as the unaltered and direct words of allah

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #11 - Sep 28^th, 2018 at 4:54pm

Auggie wrote: Reply #8 - Yesterday at 6:06pm

Quote:

So, here is where you are, dare I say, not understanding the intricacies of the Ahmadi movement. Mirza Ahmad the founder of the movement, provided theological sanctions for the purging of Islam's more radical and violent teachings.

Ahmadis fundamentally believe in separation of church and state, and have obliterated the concept of aggressive jihad. These are all in the teachings of the Ahmadis.

I don't see how this is really any different to the Jewish tradition of Rabbinic Judaism where Rabbis have been able to interpret the Torah over time and issue different rulings.

Auggie have they completely purged the evil verses in the qur'an?

Or are they simply leaving them there while not actually obeying said verses?

If they have not expunged them totally Auggie, then their qur'an is a ticking timebomb, waiting for the right devout muslim to perpetrate rape torture and mass murder as the qur'an instructs..

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim
Reply #12 - Sep 28^th, 2018 at 6:11pm

Auggie wrote on Sep 27^th, 2018 at 6:06pm:

Ahmadis fundamentally believe in separation of church and state, and have obliterated the concept of aggressive jihad. These are all in the teachings of the Ahmadis.

For these heretical reforms the Ahmadis are considered non muslims in Pakistan.

Abdus Salam won the first nobel prize for muslims, they removed the word muslim from his grave because he was an Ahmadi.

Quote:

Abdus Salam died peacefully on 21 November 1996 at the age of 70 in Oxford, England

Salam was buried in Bahishti Maqbara, a cemetery established by the Ahmadiyya Community at Rabwah, Punjab, Pakistan, next to his parents' graves. The epitaph on his tomb initially read "First Muslim Nobel Laureate". The Pakistani government removed "Muslim" and left only his name on the headstone.[111] The word "Muslim" was initially obscured on the orders of a local magistrate before moving to the national level.[112] Under Ordinance XX,[113] being an Ahmadi, he was considered a non-Muslim according to the definition provided in the II Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#Death

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim Reply #13 - Sep 28^th, 2018 at 6:44pm Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 28^th, 2018 at 6:11pm: For these heretical reforms the Ahmadis are considered non muslims in Pakistan. Then there's no reason to include them in our restrictive immigration policy, is there?
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Don't kid yourself Ahmadi moslems are not 'victim Reply #14 - Sep 28^th, 2018 at 6:44pm moses wrote on Sep 28^th, 2018 at 4:54pm: Auggie have they completely purged the evil verses in the qur'an? Yes.
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