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The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists (Read 7403 times)

Yadda

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The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Sep 18^th, 2018 at 9:48am

The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists

Quote:

Will America Abolish Its Constitution?

This Constitution Day prominent commentators are condemning America’s founding charter as out-of-date.

By Andrew Miiller • September 17

Today is Constitution Day—the anniversary of the day America’s founders signed the Constitution of the United States.

As of today, the Constitution is 231 years old, older than any other written constitution still in use.

Yet rather than honor this remarkable document,

.....prominent liberal media outlets are condemning it as an outdated, malfunctioning piece of junk that needs to be abolished.

“Not enough people connect the dots between our political dysfunction and the sacred Constitution of 1787 …” wrote Sanford Levinson, a professor at the University of Texas, in an article for Politico Magazine.

“The bitter truth is that Donald Trump’s presidency is a Frankenstein’s monster in part created by the Constitution itself, and sustained by a political class wrongly taught to worship as scripture a document whose deep flaws are becoming clearer by the day.”

Levinson is the author of a book titled Our Undemocratic Constitution: Where the Constitution Goes Wrong (And How We the People Can Correct It).

He condemns the Constitution as an undemocratic document that stops people from the electing leaders and passing the laws that they want.

An article by David Klion at Buzzfeed News is more inflammatory.

“On issue after issue, the evidence is clear: The federal government is dramatically more conservative than the American public.

Given that the institutions that make up the federal government are all structurally undemocratic, that shouldn’t come as a surprise. …

All of this makes a lot more sense if the U.S. government is viewed as what it was originally designed to be: a system of minority rule for propertied white men.”

While Levinson ends his article by questioning whether the Constitution is still relevant, Klion ends his article with a rallying cry to “abuse the Constitution” by “invoking the will of the American people.”

It seems that after two years of claiming that President Donald Trump colluded with Russia to “steal” the U.S. election, progressives are adopting a new strategy.

They admit that Mr. Trump is the constitutionally legitimate president of the United States, and so the solution to their dilema is to try to destroy the Constitution......

......Whether people realize it or not, these anti-Constitution ideas come straight from Marxist socialism.

Roughly 40 percent of American adults now say they prefer socialism to capitalism, despite the fact that the Constitution prohibits the government from amassing the immense power over the free market that socialism mandates.

That figure indicates that there are at least 98 million Americans who view Constitutional property rights as out-of-date.

Yet these people cannot legally change the U.S. Constitution unless they get the support of two-thirds of both houses of Congress or two-thirds of the state legislatures.

Since this is unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future, more people are adopting a similar approach to David Klion and “abuse the Constitution” by “invoking the will” of their supporters.

Such lawlessness is dangerous.

Many Americans are growing discontent with the nation’s founding charter, but not enough to legally abolish it.

So, they resort to obstructionism, civil disobedience and, in some cases, outright rioting.

How widespread and how violent will this lawless movement get?

https://www.thetrumpet.com/17744-will-america-abolish-its-constitution/print

Antifa.

Trump isn't the cause,    ....the emergence today, of (a) Trump, is simply a symptom, a confirmation,
of what is wrong with America    of what is wrong with Americans.

.

Many 'progressives' in the U.S. today, are seeking to popularly 'redefine' the Constitution [of the U.S.] as a piece of junk,
which needs to be abolished.

Many 'activists', want to move the people of the U.S.A. to declare the Constitution [of the U.S.] to be undemocratic, and unfit for the social needs of modern Americans, circa 2018.
....particularly, in the realisation, that it was principally, the Constitution [of the U.S.] which facilitated 'a person like' Donald J Trump being able to, lawfully come to the presidency of the U.S. !

Their argument;       If the Constitution [of the U.S.] can allow and facilitate such an outcome [the installation of a president such as Trump], then the Constitution [of the U.S.] is palpably, a very flawed instrument!

And it needs to be torn down, and replaced,    with something which better reflects the will of the American people !

.

Proverbs 28:4
They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.
5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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longweekend58

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #1 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:05pm

IMagine how your life would be if you understood things you read according to their actual content and intention instead of seeing everything through your far right eyes.

There is a fabulous episode of West Wing where Toby discusses a new constitution with am emerging free ex-soviet country. They wanted to model their constituion on the USA's. Toby told them not to do so because every other country that had adopted a presidential model had slipped into dictatorship. USA was in fact the only one that had not done so.

The westminster system is a far superior one where there is no 'temporary king' as Americas president so often behaves. We might mock the way we replace PMs often, but it is in fact, a strength so that PMs have to perform and if there is a problem, they can be easily and quickly replaced.

The US constitution is great literature, but there is where it ends. The 2nd amendment is a perfect example of how out of date it was. It was created at a time where there was no military, no real police and where the weapon of choice was a single shot musket, useful at best to 20 yards.

People have identified correctly that the executive branch has usurped almost all power and Congress has become weaker and less effective. The rule of law runs second to partisan politics where the politics of a judge is more imporant than his integrity or legal skill.

Trump is now showing exactly how bad the constitution is. For example, his tariffs are actually unlawful as the President can only do so in the case of 'national security'. Trade deficits are not national security.

The American constitution has a lot of good things in it, but it has established a political system that is dependant on the good nature and integrity of those who participate in it. As we are seeing with trump, that time has now passed.

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists Reply #2 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:27pm It is out of date. They were fools for putting the right to bear arms into the constitution. And the intent of the document is at least in part to protect the interests of the government from the will of the people.
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President Elect, The Mechanic

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #3 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:41pm

The US citizens need to fight for the Constitution and that of their rights...

The way the liberals are going feral in the US at the moment they are going to need their guns sooner than later...

Whoever succeeds Trump needs to be “Trump” like and keep the criminal cartel/deep state from destroying their country...

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.

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longweekend58

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #4 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:42pm

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

It is out of date. They were fools for putting the right to bear arms into the constitution. And the intent of the document is at least in part to protect the interests of the government from the will of the people.

One of the big problems of a lot of constitutions is that they make it hard to change them. The american one is out of date rather obviously, but changing it is now impossible because if the dems propose it, the repubs will oppose it no matter what, and probably vice versa.

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Yadda

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #5 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 5:15pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Trump is now showing exactly how bad the constitution is.

For example, his tariffs are actually unlawful as the President can only do so in the case of 'national security'.

Trade deficits are not national security.

Forget 'trade deficits'.

Think about the ability for a nation like the U.S., to maintain an economically viable steel production industry.

An economically viable steel production industry is critical to the 'national security' of a nation like the U.S.

Access to large quantities of steel is required in the production of things like tanks and ships and big artillery pieces, etc.

The production of steel for a nation like the U.S., is a strategic [i.e. national defence critical] industry sector.

And so, of course an ability for a nation like the U.S. to maintain a functioning AND ECONOMICALLY VIABLE steel production industry, is critical to the 'national security' of the U.S.

????

Do you disagree ?

Any nation which is dependent upon imported steel supplies, in a time of international tensions, could find itself unable to supply its own defence industries with steel products, because that nation could be subject to embargoes being imposed by the steel supplier nation(s).

LW,

Trump is correct [in his tariff policies], and people like yourself are [intentionally?] misstating the PRIMARY reason why Trump is imposing those tariffs.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #6 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 5:36pm

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:27pm:

It is out of date.

They were fools for putting the right to bear arms into the constitution.

And the intent of the document is at least in part to protect the interests of the government from the will of the people.

FD,

I don't agree.

The framers of the U.S. Constitution had their own very real experience, of how local, 'lawful' political power could be bent,
to oppress ordinary citizens, using the authority of a corrupt and despotic 'royal' government.

I believe that the framers of the U.S. Constitution knew, and hoped, that the provision, IN LAW, for an armed citizenry, would always be a 'lever' against any despotic tendencies of the central government.

Any central government would always, likely, be much better armed than even numbers of individual citizenry.

But just the knowledge, that the central government had, that the citizenry were armed, may well be enough to discourage any despotic tendencies of a central government.

I think that it is well established, that over time,
all 'popular' governments tend to authoritarianism and the corruption of their lawfully held powers.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #7 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:20pm

Quote:

But just the knowledge, that the central government had, that the citizenry were armed, may well be enough to discourage any despotic tendencies of a central government.

Not really. The government will always have bigger weapons, more of them, and be more organised in using them. Citizens shooting each other is usually the justification for a lurch towards despotism.

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Yadda

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #8 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:41pm

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:20pm:

Quote:

But just the knowledge, that the central government had, that the citizenry were armed, may well be enough to discourage any despotic tendencies of a central government.

Not really.

The government will always have bigger weapons, more of them, and be more organised in using them.

Citizens shooting each other is usually the justification for a lurch towards despotism.

Yeah, and we then see more and more controls and restrictions, of the rights and liberties of law-abiding citizens.

"Citizens shooting each other is usually the justification...."

....and the majority of those 'citizens' who are doing the shooting, are from among the violent criminal class.

But why would the central government and its agencies [i.e. their servants] want to remove the violent criminal class from the community,
so that they couldn't commit those violent crimes, using firearms and other weapons ?

Clearly they haven't made much of an effort to do that.

But they have moved to drastically restrict the 'natural' rights and liberties of all other citizens.

The 'natural' right, of any man or woman, is the right to their own peaceable liberties, and the right to defend their persons, from criminal attack.

Those rights are almost non-existent today, within nations like Australia.

Why so ?

Because the 'meadow', meant exclusively for the use of the browsing 'sheep', is now intermingled with a large population of 'wolves'.

[i.e. ....everyone must now be assumed, to have some 'wolf' like characteristics.
....coz, all of the creatures in the 'meadow' are now deemed to be wearing the same 'disguise'.]

« Last Edit: Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:49pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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SadKangaroo

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #9 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:51pm

I understand the cornerstone of conservatism is to conserve things the way they are, as in a fear of change.

But the constitution can be amended. It allows for change as time goes on.

If it didn't, it would be a worthless piece of paper. If a people can't grow, they will be doomed to fail.

That said, this thread is just an excuse to attack and demonise the left.

There is no logic behind it, no real point. We're in midterm season so sadly there will be more of this, from both sides, but the right for all their virtuous claims and moral grandstanding, they're much worse when it comes to this kind of thing.

And yes, I understand the irony in what I've just said.

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freediver

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #10 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:54pm

Quote:

The 'natural' right, of any man or woman, is the right to their own peaceable liberties, and the right to defend their persons, from criminal attack.

Those rights are almost non-existent today, within nations like Australia.

Why so ?

Most normal people consider not being shot at by some wacked out druggie to also be a right. And also to not have their idiot neighbours accidentally setting of nukes in the backyard. Or, they should not have to arm themselves with deadly weapons just to go down the street because of a government sponsored arms race between citizenry.

There is nothing "natural" about gun ownership. They are artificial weapons. This is why their constitutional right to bear arms was such a stupid idea. They tried to make a timeless right out of an evolving technology.

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10310 Gender:	Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists Reply #11 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 7:42pm freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:54pm: Most normal people consider not being shot at by some wacked out druggie to also be a right What in the hell is that supposed to mean FD?
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President Elect, The Mechanic

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #12 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 7:50pm

Yadda wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 5:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 12:05pm:

Forget 'trade deficits'.

Think about the ability for a nation like the U.S., to maintain an economically viable steel production industry.

An economically viable steel production industry is critical to the 'national security' of a nation like the U.S.

Access to large quantities of steel is required in the production of things like tanks and ships and big artillery pieces, etc.

The production of steel for a nation like the U.S., is a strategic [i.e. national defence critical] industry sector.

And so, of course an ability for a nation like the U.S. to maintain a functioning AND ECONOMICALLY VIABLE steel production industry, is critical to the 'national security' of the U.S.

????

Do you disagree ?

Any nation which is dependent upon imported steel supplies, in a time of international tensions, could find itself unable to supply its own defence industries with steel products, because that nation could be subject to embargoes being imposed by the steel supplier nation(s).
LW,

Trump is correct [in his tariff policies], and people like yourself are [intentionally?] misstating the PRIMARY reason why Trump is imposing those tariffs.

if he watched a trump rally he'd know this already ... Roll Eyes

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.

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Yadda

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Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists
Reply #13 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 9:58pm

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:54pm:

Quote:

Most normal people consider not being shot at by some wacked out druggie to also be a right.

Well i'm here to tell 'most normal people' [Australian citizens, circa 2018] that they shouldn't expect to enjoy such 'social security' here in Australia.

Coz, the suburbs of Australia are awash with armed drug dealers shooting people in the streets.

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:54pm:

And also to not have their idiot neighbours accidentally setting of nukes in the backyard.

I don't believe that has happened.

I missed that news report FD.
...but i'm here, to be corrected FD.

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:54pm:

Or, they should not have to arm themselves with deadly weapons just to go down the street because of a government sponsored arms race between citizenry.

Another unlikely, and unrealistic, scare-mongering, scenario.

And i'm not advocating that the government should 'sponsor' arming the citizenry.

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:54pm:

There is nothing "natural" about gun ownership.

Well it use to be, that the King required by law, that the freemen of England maintain their proficiency with a bow and arrow.

Google;
Every man should have rifle. Henry Lawson [another 'dinosaur']

freediver wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:54pm:

They are artificial weapons.

This is why their constitutional right to bear arms was such a stupid idea.

They tried to make a timeless right out of an evolving technology.

I concede, that access to a 'technology' isn't a right, FD.

Q. FD...
Should free men, peaceable men, law abiding men [living in a 'free country'],
be afforded the right, IN LAW, to protect themselves and their families,
from harm, and from malicious harm, and from criminal harm ?

If yes, can you suggest a viable means ?

Or, are you one of those persons who attributes an exclusive right, to the state alone, to protect [or kill] individual citizens [i.e. persons who have no intimate connection to the apparatus or 'body' of the state] ?

If yes, how is that working out for the many victims of malicious and criminal harm, in our cities and suburbs ?

And by the way, both government officials and police hierarchy will tell John or Jane Citizen,
that neither the government nor the police have any responsibility - IN LAW - to protect them from criminal violence,
even if credible threats of violence, have been made against John or Jane Citizen.

« Last Edit: Sep 18^th, 2018 at 10:07pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47433 At my desk.	Re: The rise of the American anti-Constitutionalists Reply #14 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 10:02pm Quote: I don't believe that has happened. Of course it hasn't happened, because common sense kicked in. Just a little too late in many cases, but it's still there. It's funny to watch Americans who still take this seriously as a "right", despite how ludicrous it has become.
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