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This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped (Read 3381 times)
Richdude
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #15 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:27pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Must  be so sad to be you.

In my life I have seen many things touted as the next "big thing"; some of them in technology.

The fact is most haven't lived up to the hype.

It is wonderful to believe in new technology. But it has to pass the pub test. It has to eventuate into something meaningful.

Just quoting or posting a youtube about the next "big thing" mindlessly just isn't good enough.

Battery research is going on. And I applaud that. But as I have said many times it is a mature technology. It is extremely doubtful as to whether there will be a "eureka moment". There will however be incremental increases.

The same applies to both solar and wind. Both mature technologies.



  Maybe your eureka moment has never happened for you - doesn't mean it cannot happen.

However this is an interesting discussion and me being an optimist. Believes and has faith in human discovery.

There are some who say that batteries are a conduit for power and not a source - (although they appear to be). Colonel Tom Beardon for one. Maxwell also implied something similar as did Oliver Heaviside - more than 100 years ago.

Some of you smarties may like to comment on this phenomenon . That a magnet magnetized in a fraction of a second can in theory do work for ever. Far in excess of the power taken to magnetize it - this violates the law of conservation of energy. It appears that magnets also may be a conduit as well.

I would appreciate a sensible explanation.
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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:34pm by Richdude »  

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Sir lastnail
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #16 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:59pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Must  be so sad to be you.

In my life I have seen many things touted as the next "big thing"; some of them in technology.

The fact is most haven't lived up to the hype.

It is wonderful to believe in new technology. But it has to pass the pub test. It has to eventuate into something meaningful.

Just quoting or posting a youtube about the next "big thing" mindlessly just isn't good enough.

Battery research is going on. And I applaud that. But as I have said many times it is a mature technology. It is extremely doubtful as to whether there will be a "eureka moment". There will however be incremental increases.

The same applies to both solar and wind. Both mature technologies.


free sunlight energy is a fact. We are only alive because of it and not because of some coal fired power station run by some CEO maggot in a suit and tie.

People with rooftop solar can either directly or indirectly charge up an electric vehicle from home even with existing battery technologies and their imperfections. Never before has this option been available to the masses.

You're flawed arguments for coal fired power and fossil fools to be a standard by which every other source of energy is judged, conveniently ignores its downfall and that is, its massive environmental degradation and irreversible damage !  For this reason you have no argument against renewable energy of any kind.


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Sir lastnail
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #17 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 1:03pm
 
Richdude wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:27pm:
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Must  be so sad to be you.

In my life I have seen many things touted as the next "big thing"; some of them in technology.

The fact is most haven't lived up to the hype.

It is wonderful to believe in new technology. But it has to pass the pub test. It has to eventuate into something meaningful.

Just quoting or posting a youtube about the next "big thing" mindlessly just isn't good enough.

Battery research is going on. And I applaud that. But as I have said many times it is a mature technology. It is extremely doubtful as to whether there will be a "eureka moment". There will however be incremental increases.

The same applies to both solar and wind. Both mature technologies.



  Maybe your eureka moment has never happened for you - doesn't mean it cannot happen.

However this is an interesting discussion and me being an optimist. Believes and has faith in human discovery.

There are some who say that batteries are a conduit for power and not a source - (although they appear to be). Colonel Tom Beardon for one. Maxwell also implied something similar as did Oliver Heaviside - more than 100 years ago.

Some of you smarties may like to comment on this phenomenon . That a magnet magnetized in a fraction of a second can in theory do work for ever. Far in excess of the power taken to magnetize it - this violates the law of conservation of energy. It appears that magnets also may be a conduit as well.

I would appreciate a sensible explanation.


batteries take the power away from the ruling elite and put in the hands of the masses and that's what they fear the most !
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lee
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #18 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 2:07pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:59pm:
free sunlight energy is a fact. We are only alive because of it and not because of some coal fired power station run by some CEO maggot in a suit and tie.



Yes. Now how did we survive in the NH without fire in winter. You know when the sun is low or not there for up to 6 months of the year.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:59pm:
You're flawed arguments for coal fired power and fossil fools to be a standard by which every other source of energy is judged, conveniently ignores its downfall and that is, its massive environmental degradation and irreversible damage !



Please quote my "flawed" arguments.

So one of the flawed arguments would be the standard of dispatchable energy? We shouldn't judge renewables on that? We shouldn't judge wind and solar on intermittency?

So tell us about the environmental damage wind towers don't do. You know digging up trees and vegetation and putting in big lumps of concrete. Concrete that is apparently a source of CO2.

How about footings for solar panels?

BTW - Did you know "green" Germany is still building coal fired power as are other Eu countries.
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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2018 at 2:16pm by lee »  
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #19 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 3:25pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 2:07pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:59pm:
free sunlight energy is a fact. We are only alive because of it and not because of some coal fired power station run by some CEO maggot in a suit and tie.



Yes. Now how did we survive in the NH without fire in winter. You know when the sun is low or not there for up to 6 months of the year.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 12:59pm:
You're flawed arguments for coal fired power and fossil fools to be a standard by which every other source of energy is judged, conveniently ignores its downfall and that is, its massive environmental degradation and irreversible damage !



Please quote my "flawed" arguments.

So one of the flawed arguments would be the standard of dispatchable energy? We shouldn't judge renewables on that? We shouldn't judge wind and solar on intermittency?

So tell us about the environmental damage wind towers don't do. You know digging up trees and vegetation and putting in big lumps of concrete. Concrete that is apparently a source of CO2.

How about footings for solar panels?

BTW - Did you know "green" Germany is still building coal fired power as are other Eu countries.


And don't forget the yellow bellied parrot you conservatives were so concerned about just a few years ago in protest to those "wind mills". Cheesy LOL

Considering that most of Australia is desert then suitable land availability should not be a problem for both "wind mills" and solar PV farms. Just keep building more and more instead ofus paying private enterprise for what we already own !

We just need a progressive thinking government that gets behind it instead of trying to solve problems by selling everything off to private enterprise so they can screw the public in favour of generating profits for their greedy shareholders.

And "dispatchable" power is some wanky LNP buzzword that they used to make them sound knowledgeable on the subject.
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lee
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #20 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 3:47pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 3:25pm:
Considering that most of Australia is desert then suitable land availability should not be a problem for both "wind mills" and solar PV farms. Just keep building more and more instead ofus paying private enterprise for what we already own !



You mean those desert lands that are a part of tribal lands?  And then of course they need to be maintained. Boots on the ground. Power lines, power poles? oh no that's right that's just goldplating the network.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 3:25pm:
And "dispatchable" power is some wanky LNP buzzword that they used to make them sound knowledgeable on the subject.



So power doesn't need to be dispatched? It doesn't need to reach a certain level for it to be of any use?

We don't need no stinkin' baseload power. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

You probably didn't see this -

"The wind isn’t what it used to be. Scientists say surface wind speeds across the planet have fallen by as much as 25% since the 1970s. The eerie phenomenon – dubbed ‘stilling’ – is believed to be a consequence of global warming, and may impact everything from agriculture to the liveability of our cities. It has taken more than a decade for scientists to get a handle on stilling, a term coined by Australian National University ecohydrologist Michael Roderick in 2007."

https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/the-wind-is-slowing-down

the paper -

"Global review and synthesis of trends in observed terrestrial near-surface wind speeds: Implications for evaporation"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022169411007487

So tell me does wind speed affect wind generators?
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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2018 at 3:52pm by lee »  
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #21 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 4:08pm
 
Ah that baseload buzzword thrown around by the conservatives everytime they want to bag renewables Cheesy LOL

The myth of baseload power

https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/baseload-energy-generation-expos...

Quote:
The origins of baseload power
Firstly, it’s important to know that baseload power is the result of the way the electricity market used to work when coal-fired power stations were its mainstay and cheapest option. ‘Baseload’ did/does not refer to the maximum or even the average output of these power stations, but the minimum they could produce without having to be switched off. If they were cars, ‘baseload’ would be the idle speed, such as when you’re waiting at a traffic light.

Professor Anthony Vassallo holds the Delta Electricity Chair in Sustainable Energy Development at the University of Sydney. He says baseload is that small part of energy generation originally designed to be running continuously.

“When the electricity gird expansion took place from the fifties to the seventies, the big option in Australia was coal-fired power stations which are designed not to be turned off,” he explains.

“They were sized and scaled to meet the lowest point of power demand during the day and ran continuously throughout. The idea was that as the demand rose during the day you could increase the output from those generators, because they wouldn’t be operating at full capacity.”

If these baseload generators did reach full capacity then electricity grid operators brought in extra electricity generation from gas or hydro, or some other source that was more expensive.

Baseload ‘no longer suitable’
The problem was that there usually wasn’t enough load for these huge baseload generators at night, and no generating company wanted to turn them off because it cost too much money and energy to get them running again.

“The baseload, that is the lowest load on the generators, is met at 4 a.m.,” Vassallo continues. “At that time of the day the idea is that the cheap fuel generators, the coal-fired generators, would be ticking over, just meting that minimum demand.

“If the demand dropped even more, some of the big generators would have to turn off, which is very inefficient. So there were schemes like off-peak hot water to provide extra load and use the generator power that was available at that time of night.”

Vassallo says today’s electricity generation technology is so flexible it doesn’t need a ‘baseload’. There is no need to keep huge coal-fired stations ticking over 24/7.

“I don’t think it’s sensible to force this historic generation pyramid of baseload thinking onto the market and say, ‘Look, renewable energy can’t supply this baseload.’ I think the argument is more along the lines that the older design is no longer suitable for newer technologies.”
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lee
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #22 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 4:44pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 4:08pm:
Ah that baseload buzzword thrown around by the conservatives everytime they want to bag renewables



So tell me do they need power at all times at all hospitals? That is a part of baseload power. Baseload power is the amount of power that is needed at any one time. Streetlights? Getting up to see to a kid in the middle of the night? Can renewables guarantee that supply? That is dispatchable power.  Forget about the actual generation method, to what use is that generation to be put.

I can't help it if you can't think for yourself but regurgitate crap.

" “The baseload, that is the lowest load on the generators, is met at 4 a.m.,” Vassallo continues. “At that time of the day the idea is that the cheap fuel generators, the coal-fired generators, would be ticking over, just meting that minimum demand." "

That minimum demand is baseload power for that time.

"Vassallo says today’s electricity generation technology is so flexible it doesn’t need a ‘baseload’. There is no need to keep huge coal-fired stations ticking over 24/7."

So at night when the wind don't blow?

Or perhaps you have a different definition of what baseload power would consist.  Feel free to enlighten us.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #23 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 5:08pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 4:44pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 4:08pm:
Ah that baseload buzzword thrown around by the conservatives everytime they want to bag renewables



So tell me do they need power at all times at all hospitals? That is a part of baseload power. Baseload power is the amount of power that is needed at any one time. Streetlights? Getting up to see to a kid in the middle of the night? Can renewables guarantee that supply? That is dispatchable power.  Forget about the actual generation method, to what use is that generation to be put.

I can't help it if you can't think for yourself but regurgitate crap.

" “The baseload, that is the lowest load on the generators, is met at 4 a.m.,” Vassallo continues. “At that time of the day the idea is that the cheap fuel generators, the coal-fired generators, would be ticking over, just meting that minimum demand." "

That minimum demand is baseload power for that time.

"Vassallo says today’s electricity generation technology is so flexible it doesn’t need a ‘baseload’. There is no need to keep huge coal-fired stations ticking over 24/7."

So at night when the wind don't blow?

Or perhaps you have a different definition of what baseload power would consist.  Feel free to enlighten us.


So when the wind doesn't blow in one area of australia then it doesn't blow across all of australia ? Is that what you are saying ?
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lee
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #24 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 5:25pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 5:08pm:
So when the wind doesn't blow in one area of australia then it doesn't blow across all of australia ? Is that what you are saying ?



So obtuse.

If the wind is blowing in Western Australia it won't help eastern Australia. You have heard of transmission losses? No grid?

If the wind is blowing fitfully in Victoria it won't help NSW. You do understand there needs to be constant wind.

You did read about the wind "stilling"? What ramifications would you see from that?
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #25 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 6:10pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 5:25pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 5:08pm:
So when the wind doesn't blow in one area of australia then it doesn't blow across all of australia ? Is that what you are saying ?



So obtuse.

If the wind is blowing in Western Australia it won't help eastern Australia. You have heard of transmission losses? No grid?

If the wind is blowing fitfully in Victoria it won't help NSW. You do understand there needs to be constant wind.

You did read about the wind "stilling"? What ramifications would you see from that?


But it's ok to export power to other states as we currently do now. As usual looking for lame excuses not to implement wind energy on a massive scale. Instead it's easier to throw a few buzzwords around to make people fear renewable energy.
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #26 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 6:29pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 6:10pm:
But it's ok to export power to other states as we currently do now.



Yeah. Wonder how they do that? Don't all hospitals use power?

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 6:10pm:
Instead it's easier to throw a few buzzwords around to make people fear renewable energy.



Oh dear. Which buzzword was that? baseload? How many MWh does a major hospital consume?

Royal Women

Royal Children

Royal Melbourne

Had a combined usage of 138,000 MWh in 2011

http://imap.vic.gov.au/uploads/Meeting%20Agendas/2014%20August/Att%207a_IMAP_Ene...

Figure 7

"Six wind farms became operational in 2017, adding 547 MW of new generating capacity, which was the third-highest amount added in the history of the Australian wind industry. These additional projects took the Australian wind industry's total generating capacity to 4816 MW."

That's actually MWh.

So tell me what is going to provide those extra 133,000Mwh? And that's just for 3 hospitals.
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #27 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 7:22pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 12:49pm:
lee wrote on Sep 15th, 2018 at 10:02pm:
They also note the research does not indicate the batteries retain their charge when unplugged.


DonDeeHippy wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 7:15am:
any increase of battery tech is good for all of us, so these promising developments can only bring that closer for us.


A battery that can't retain its charge is a "promising development"? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

lee is a merchant of death lol
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #28 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 7:30pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 8:51pm:
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 5:54pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 5:45pm:
This is a technology forum and about using new technology to move forwards and not about moving backwards like you lot continuously want to do.



So tell us more about this "perfect" battery. The one that may not hold charge. The one that may miraculously get more "perfect" with every charge.

That doesn't sound like moving forward. but perhaps you can enlighten us. Merely making claims of improving new technologies doesn't do it.


Listen mate. There is battery research going on everywhere. If they were all like you and socko there would be no research. All you lot do is bag existing technology which threatens your fake polluting oil economy and bag prospective technologies. Nothing is ever good enough for you lot even though you come up with absolutely nothing to solve any problems. And that's another issue, apparently there are no issues with the current oil based economy. Nothing whatsoever according to you lot. The same old skeptic arguments being wheeled out again and again that have been put to rest again and again and designed to appeal to people with limited intelligence quotient.

That's all you lot have got to offer.

lee sells death lol
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Re: This New 'Perfect' Battery Has Experts Stumped
Reply #29 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 7:31pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Must  be so sad to be you.

In my life I have seen many things touted as the next "big thing"; some of them in technology.

The fact is most haven't lived up to the hype.


It is wonderful to believe in new technology. But it has to pass the pub test. It has to eventuate into something meaningful.

Just quoting or posting a youtube about the next "big thing" mindlessly just isn't good enough.

Battery research is going on. And I applaud that. But as I have said many times it is a mature technology. It is extremely doubtful as to whether there will be a "eureka moment". There will however be incremental increases.

The same applies to both solar and wind. Both mature technologies.

wow  Grin
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