Australian Politics Forum - John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!

Brian Ross

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #30 - Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:25pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 7:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 13^th, 2018 at 5:01pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 13^th, 2018 at 3:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 13^th, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Well, I was under the impression that the ICC could only investigate if invited to investigate and charge perpetrators by the nation where the crimes were committed?

I was also under the impression that the US hadn't signed up to the Convention on the ICC and had been, over the last decade, quietly strongarming other nations to not sign up to the Convention. Is that wrong?

Seems to be like Bolton is running a smokescreen for Trump. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

The ICC is intended to complement existing national judicial systems and it may therefore only exercise its jurisdiction when certain conditions are met, such as when national courts are unwilling or unable to prosecute criminals or when the United Nations Security Council or individual states refer situations to the Court.

So in other words, it would hardly be likely to even investigate the US.

So, the question is, why is Bolton making a song and dance about something that can not eventuate?

Again, I make the point, perhaps Bolton is laying a smokescreen for el Presidente? Diverting the attention of the loyal band of followers from what is occurring in the Mueller inquiry? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

I suspect that they are concerned about the torture and breaches of human rights they have committed in Iraq and around the world.

So they should be. Afterall, they signed up and ratified the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment , which contains as part of it the following clauses:

Quote:

Article 2

1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.

2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

They have not followed through on their commitments under the Convention. They have failed dismally to uphold those clauses. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #31 - Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:16pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 7:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

Thank'ee. So, you're not worried when US citizens are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find out what the plans are of the US Government towards their country? You are not worried when citizens of allies of the USA are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find what their government's plans are towards their country?

Or are only enemies of the USA subhuman sufficiently not to receive the same protections you demand are handed out to citizens of the USA? Tsk, tsk, such a shallow person you have proved to be. Roll Eyes

You got it in one, Bwian - not all countries, legal and political systems are equal. Where you go wrong here - you always go wrong - is in thinking that all members of the UN are of equal worth, equal dignity, worthy of equal respect and recognition. They aren't.

Ah, you are making assumptions again, Soren. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. No, I don't assume all regimes/governments/nations are equal. However, I also don't assume that a country which champions the concepts embodied in the UN Convention against Torture and other forms of Unusual Punishment and then signs up to the Convention and then ratifiers it, and then commits torture against people who have been convicted of no crime in no court of justice, purely on suspicion of them being involved in Terrorism is superior to a country which has not signed, not ratified and never championed the UN Convention against Torture and Unusual Punishment. I know countries like Iraq under Saddam Hussein is likely to torture prisoners it has captured or is holding in its gaols. I do not assume that the USA would do such a thing. What about you? Do you think that simply because a person worships Islam they deserve to be water boarded? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

Oh? It's about Muslims now? What is it about you and Islam, Bwian? Do you have to turn everything into a Muslim grievance-fest? Do you have gandalf's OK for this? Karnal's? You have Allah on your ... what's the word? it's not mind... brain??

An outraged, clucking old turkey preening himself in the dust just after being run over by a rusty ute - that's how I see you, you stupid old, demented fool.

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Brian Ross

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #32 - Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:29pm

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:16pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 7:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

Thank'ee. So, you're not worried when US citizens are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find out what the plans are of the US Government towards their country? You are not worried when citizens of allies of the USA are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find what their government's plans are towards their country?

Or are only enemies of the USA subhuman sufficiently not to receive the same protections you demand are handed out to citizens of the USA? Tsk, tsk, such a shallow person you have proved to be. Roll Eyes

You got it in one, Bwian - not all countries, legal and political systems are equal. Where you go wrong here - you always go wrong - is in thinking that all members of the UN are of equal worth, equal dignity, worthy of equal respect and recognition. They aren't.

Ah, you are making assumptions again, Soren. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. No, I don't assume all regimes/governments/nations are equal. However, I also don't assume that a country which champions the concepts embodied in the UN Convention against Torture and other forms of Unusual Punishment and then signs up to the Convention and then ratifiers it, and then commits torture against people who have been convicted of no crime in no court of justice, purely on suspicion of them being involved in Terrorism is superior to a country which has not signed, not ratified and never championed the UN Convention against Torture and Unusual Punishment. I know countries like Iraq under Saddam Hussein is likely to torture prisoners it has captured or is holding in its gaols. I do not assume that the USA would do such a thing. What about you? Do you think that simply because a person worships Islam they deserve to be water boarded? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

Oh? It's about Muslims now? What is it about you and Islam, Bwian? Do you have to turn everything into a Muslim grievance-fest? Do you have gandalf's OK for this? Karnal's? You have Allah on your ... what's the word? it's not mind... brain??

An outraged, clucking old turkey preening himself in the dust just after being run over by a rusty ute - that's how I see you, you stupid old, demented fool.

Were you trying to provide something relevant to the thread or just a personal attack on me, Soren? No, it doesn't seem so. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #33 - Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:29pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:16pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 7:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

Thank'ee. So, you're not worried when US citizens are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find out what the plans are of the US Government towards their country? You are not worried when citizens of allies of the USA are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find what their government's plans are towards their country?

Or are only enemies of the USA subhuman sufficiently not to receive the same protections you demand are handed out to citizens of the USA? Tsk, tsk, such a shallow person you have proved to be. Roll Eyes

You got it in one, Bwian - not all countries, legal and political systems are equal. Where you go wrong here - you always go wrong - is in thinking that all members of the UN are of equal worth, equal dignity, worthy of equal respect and recognition. They aren't.

Ah, you are making assumptions again, Soren. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. No, I don't assume all regimes/governments/nations are equal. However, I also don't assume that a country which champions the concepts embodied in the UN Convention against Torture and other forms of Unusual Punishment and then signs up to the Convention and then ratifiers it, and then commits torture against people who have been convicted of no crime in no court of justice, purely on suspicion of them being involved in Terrorism is superior to a country which has not signed, not ratified and never championed the UN Convention against Torture and Unusual Punishment. I know countries like Iraq under Saddam Hussein is likely to torture prisoners it has captured or is holding in its gaols. I do not assume that the USA would do such a thing. What about you? Do you think that simply because a person worships Islam they deserve to be water boarded? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

Oh? It's about Muslims now? What is it about you and Islam, Bwian? Do you have to turn everything into a Muslim grievance-fest? Do you have gandalf's OK for this? Karnal's? You have Allah on your ... what's the word? it's not mind... brain??

An outraged, clucking old turkey preening himself in the dust just after being run over by a rusty ute - that's how I see you, you stupid old, demented fool.

Were you trying to provide something relevant to the thread or just a personal attack on me, Soren? No, it doesn't seem so. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You have done this lotsa times before but you know you are a prick, I know you are a prick, we all know you are a useless, know-nothing prick, Bwian.

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Brian Ross

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #34 - Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:42pm

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:29pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 10:16pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 7:37pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

Thank'ee. So, you're not worried when US citizens are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find out what the plans are of the US Government towards their country? You are not worried when citizens of allies of the USA are tortured by overseas regimes, seeking to find what their government's plans are towards their country?

Or are only enemies of the USA subhuman sufficiently not to receive the same protections you demand are handed out to citizens of the USA? Tsk, tsk, such a shallow person you have proved to be. Roll Eyes

You got it in one, Bwian - not all countries, legal and political systems are equal. Where you go wrong here - you always go wrong - is in thinking that all members of the UN are of equal worth, equal dignity, worthy of equal respect and recognition. They aren't.

Ah, you are making assumptions again, Soren. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. No, I don't assume all regimes/governments/nations are equal. However, I also don't assume that a country which champions the concepts embodied in the UN Convention against Torture and other forms of Unusual Punishment and then signs up to the Convention and then ratifiers it, and then commits torture against people who have been convicted of no crime in no court of justice, purely on suspicion of them being involved in Terrorism is superior to a country which has not signed, not ratified and never championed the UN Convention against Torture and Unusual Punishment. I know countries like Iraq under Saddam Hussein is likely to torture prisoners it has captured or is holding in its gaols. I do not assume that the USA would do such a thing. What about you? Do you think that simply because a person worships Islam they deserve to be water boarded? Mmmm? Roll Eyes

Oh? It's about Muslims now? What is it about you and Islam, Bwian? Do you have to turn everything into a Muslim grievance-fest? Do you have gandalf's OK for this? Karnal's? You have Allah on your ... what's the word? it's not mind... brain??

An outraged, clucking old turkey preening himself in the dust just after being run over by a rusty ute - that's how I see you, you stupid old, demented fool.

Were you trying to provide something relevant to the thread or just a personal attack on me, Soren? No, it doesn't seem so. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You have done this lotsa times before but you know you are a prick, I know you are a prick, we all know you are a useless, know-nothing prick, Bwian.

Were you trying to provide something relevant to the thread or just a personal attack on me, Soren? No, it doesn't seem so. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Panther Gold Member Offline My Heart beats True for the Red White & Blue... Posts: 11106 Gender:	Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America! Reply #35 - Sep 15^th, 2018 at 12:59pm
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Brian Ross

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #36 - Sep 15^th, 2018 at 4:48pm

Until the US withdraws from the UN Convention Against Torture, it is held by the clauses of the Convention. The US was a main proponent of the Convention and was a main supporter of the Convention. It still remains a signatory and a ratifier of the Convention.

So, Panther, you're proposing that the US join the ranks of states like Iran, DPRK, Malaysia, Papua-New-Guinea, Botswana, Sudan and Angola?

You really are quite crazy, you realise that?

As is el Presidente' Trump. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Sep 15^th, 2018 at 5:33pm by Brian Ross »

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Panther

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #37 - Sep 15^th, 2018 at 5:39pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 4:48pm:

Until the US withdraws from the UN Convention Against Torture, it is held by the clauses of the Convention. The US was a main proponent of the Convention and was a main supporter of the Convention. It still remains a signatory and a ratifier of the Convention.

So, Panther, you're proposing that the US join the ranks of states like Iran, Botswana, Sudan and Angola?

You really are quite crazy, you realise that?

As is el Presidente' Trump. Roll Eyes

The U.N.

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SadKangaroo Gold Member Offline #FightStupid Posts: 14879 Mianjin (Brisbane)	Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America! Reply #38 - Sep 15^th, 2018 at 5:56pm You claim to care about veterans yet you oppose the UN... Isn't the prevention of war and therefore less injured, maimed or killed service men and women better than pretending to fund proper care for them?
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Brian Ross

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #39 - Sep 15^th, 2018 at 6:29pm

Panther wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 5:39pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 4:48pm:

Until the US withdraws from the UN Convention Against Torture, it is held by the clauses of the Convention. The US was a main proponent of the Convention and was a main supporter of the Convention. It still remains a signatory and a ratifier of the Convention.

So, Panther, you're proposing that the US join the ranks of states like Iran, Botswana, Sudan and Angola?

You really are quite crazy, you realise that?

As is el Presidente' Trump. Roll Eyes

Why bother? Knowing the US Governments' previous performance on the provision of care for past veterans of all wars that the US has engaged in, all you'd be doing is consigning your veterans, who you appear to claim to care about, to worse care and neglect than they have already suffered. Tsk, tsk, how typical of the Right-Wingers, so short sighted and of course, the next time the US is looking for a fig leaf of respectability and legality, when it invades someone who it dislikes because they have given the US the two-fingered salute, well, you'll be rowing upstream in shite creek in a barbed wire canoe without a paddle. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #40 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 3:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 6:29pm:

Panther wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 5:39pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 4:48pm:

Until the US withdraws from the UN Convention Against Torture, it is held by the clauses of the Convention. The US was a main proponent of the Convention and was a main supporter of the Convention. It still remains a signatory and a ratifier of the Convention.

So, Panther, you're proposing that the US join the ranks of states like Iran, Botswana, Sudan and Angola?

You really are quite crazy, you realise that?

As is el Presidente' Trump. Roll Eyes

Why bother? Knowing the US Governments' previous performance on the provision of care for past veterans of all wars that the US has engaged in, all you'd be doing is consigning your veterans, who you appear to claim to care about, to worse care and neglect than they have already suffered. Tsk, tsk, how typical of the Right-Wingers, so short sighted and of course, the next time the US is looking for a fig leaf of respectability and legality, when it invades someone who it dislikes because they have given the US the two-fingered salute, well, you'll be rowing upstream in shite creek in a barbed wire canoe without a paddle. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Bump! Just in case Panther (DreamRyderX) missed it, the first time it was posted. Wink

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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philperth2010

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #41 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:02pm

America want to be able to commit torture and war crimes with impunity and no repercussions....The Yanks believe only other countries (accept Israel) should be held to account for indiscriminate killing and provoking illegal wars....The Yanks are an evil empire who cause most of the worlds problems....F@#k Donald Trump and his supporters!!!

Roll Eyes

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Mattyfisk

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #42 - Sep 18^th, 2018 at 10:41pm

Panther wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 5:39pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2018 at 4:48pm:

Until the US withdraws from the UN Convention Against Torture, it is held by the clauses of the Convention. The US was a main proponent of the Convention and was a main supporter of the Convention. It still remains a signatory and a ratifier of the Convention.

So, Panther, you're proposing that the US join the ranks of states like Iran, Botswana, Sudan and Angola?

You really are quite crazy, you realise that?

As is el Presidente' Trump. Roll Eyes

A "veteran's hospital", eh?

Do you mean like his charity, Rich?

The Trump Foundation?

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Richdude

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Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America!
Reply #43 - Sep 19^th, 2018 at 1:33am

philperth2010 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2018 at 6:02pm:

America want to be able to commit torture and war crimes with impunity and no repercussions....The Yanks believe only other countries (accept Israel) should be held to account for indiscriminate killing and provoking illegal wars....The Yanks are an evil empire who cause most of the worlds problems....F@#k Donald Trump and his supporters!!!

Roll Eyes

You need to sack your news sources cause you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about.

The average American are not hawks and certainly the President is not. Despite what you hear.

The President does have undesirables who are puppets for the PTB - eg Bolton a neo-con who helped push for Americas invasion of the ME. Bolton follows the script of the PNAC report.

The land on which the UN building sits on was formerly an abattoir owned and given to the UN by none other David Rockefeller.

The UN has always been owned - its a toy of the oligarchs to subtly implement their policies while appearing as a democratic organisation.

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The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”

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Richdude Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8457 NC Gender:	Re: John Bolton declares ICC "dead to" America! Reply #44 - Sep 19^th, 2018 at 1:57am Another thing. America is the most powerful country on Earth. Powerful countries dominate. Rome brutally dominated the ME and Europe all empires do. Of all the empires America has been the most benevolent. Do you think a Chinese empire would be as benevolent as the US?
Back to top	The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.” IP Logged