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Indonesia 2004 (Read 2356 times)
freediver
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #45 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 6:12pm
 
Those private schools tend to have much higher academic standards. Very unpleasant for "free thinkers".
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Frank
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #46 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 10:16pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 3:26pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 10:24pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 7:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 6:16pm:
Moses, Moses, selective comprehension kicked in again?

Christianity will implode under any thorough scrutiny of the innumerable verses of evil in The Bible.

Honesty will simply show that The Bible is nothing more that a handbook for Christian depravity.

So if Christ got it all wrong, means no more Christianity.

This factor has the Christians and the apologists in a flap, as they all prefer the daily bloodshed over simply being truthful about the evil in The Bible.

Christians are not the top 50 listed global terrorist organizations just by chance or coincidence.

Christianity is the cause, Christians eventually will have to own this fact, as people will get sick and tired of the misinterpretation / radicalized / (name your preferred excuse here) crap that's presently being sprouted by Rightards and *moderates*.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



freediver wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 6:26pm:
Brian do you actually believe there is no difference between Christianity and Islam in terms of promoting violence, or are you just incapable of stringing your own sentences together?


All that plus.

Brain aneurysm is coming you way, crazy, discombobulated  Bwian....  This is why your wife left you, this is why you are alone and shunned, Bwian.

Idiocy.



http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk, were you trying to say something useful, Soren?  Sorry, I can't see anything of value in your useless verbage.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes





Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Those nuns, in Philip Larkin's immortal word, fcUKed up good and proper, Bwian. They didn't mean to but by Jesus, they did.


"Nuns"?  I was only schooled by Nuns until the end of Grade Two when my dyslexia proved too much for them.   I then went to a State School - where I had an excellent educational experience before being hauled off to a School run by Marist Brothers, which was hell for free-thinker like myself.

Now, where did you go to school?  Let us guess?  "Play up!  Play up! And play the game!"  Hey?  They really converted you in to being a mini-British colonist, right, Soren?    Roll Eyes
Quote:
   
    There's a breathless hush in the Close to-night—
    Ten to make and the match to win—
    A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
    An hour to play and the last man in.
    And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
    Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
    But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"

    The sand of the desert is sodden red,—
    Red with the wreck of a square that broke;—
    The Gatling's jammed and the Colonel dead,
    And the regiment blind with dust and smoke.
    The river of death has brimmed his banks,
    And England's far, and Honour a name,
    But the voice of a schoolboy rallies the ranks:
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"

    This is the word that year by year,
    While in her place the school is set,
    Every one of her sons must hear,
    And none that hears it dare forget.
    This they all with a joyful mind
    Bear through life like a torch in flame,
    And falling fling to the host behind—
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"


1892, Vitaї Lampada, Henry John Newbolt

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
I have never come across anyone more conformist and unthinkingly PC than you, Bwian. Original or contrarian  ideas are what you have set your face against with vehemence and loathing and unfailing peckniffish vigour.


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Karnal
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #47 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 10:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
Those private schools tend to have much higher academic standards. Very unpleasant for "free thinkers".


True. Take the prestigious University of Balogney.

The old boy hasn't had an original thought since.

You?
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Brian Ross
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #48 - Sep 18th, 2018 at 11:59pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
Those private schools tend to have much higher academic standards. Very unpleasant for "free thinkers".


I always understood it was how much money the parents were willing to pay, FD.  Where did you go to school, out of a matter of interest?   Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #49 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 12:00am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 10:16pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 3:26pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 7:52pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 10:24pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 7:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 6:16pm:
Moses, Moses, selective comprehension kicked in again?

Christianity will implode under any thorough scrutiny of the innumerable verses of evil in The Bible.

Honesty will simply show that The Bible is nothing more that a handbook for Christian depravity.

So if Christ got it all wrong, means no more Christianity.

This factor has the Christians and the apologists in a flap, as they all prefer the daily bloodshed over simply being truthful about the evil in The Bible.

Christians are not the top 50 listed global terrorist organizations just by chance or coincidence.

Christianity is the cause, Christians eventually will have to own this fact, as people will get sick and tired of the misinterpretation / radicalized / (name your preferred excuse here) crap that's presently being sprouted by Rightards and *moderates*.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes



freediver wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 6:26pm:
Brian do you actually believe there is no difference between Christianity and Islam in terms of promoting violence, or are you just incapable of stringing your own sentences together?


All that plus.

Brain aneurysm is coming you way, crazy, discombobulated  Bwian....  This is why your wife left you, this is why you are alone and shunned, Bwian.

Idiocy.



http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk, were you trying to say something useful, Soren?  Sorry, I can't see anything of value in your useless verbage.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes





Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Those nuns, in Philip Larkin's immortal word, fcUKed up good and proper, Bwian. They didn't mean to but by Jesus, they did.


"Nuns"?  I was only schooled by Nuns until the end of Grade Two when my dyslexia proved too much for them.   I then went to a State School - where I had an excellent educational experience before being hauled off to a School run by Marist Brothers, which was hell for free-thinker like myself.

Now, where did you go to school?  Let us guess?  "Play up!  Play up! And play the game!"  Hey?  They really converted you in to being a mini-British colonist, right, Soren?    Roll Eyes
Quote:
   
    There's a breathless hush in the Close to-night—
    Ten to make and the match to win—
    A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
    An hour to play and the last man in.
    And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
    Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
    But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"

    The sand of the desert is sodden red,—
    Red with the wreck of a square that broke;—
    The Gatling's jammed and the Colonel dead,
    And the regiment blind with dust and smoke.
    The river of death has brimmed his banks,
    And England's far, and Honour a name,
    But the voice of a schoolboy rallies the ranks:
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"

    This is the word that year by year,
    While in her place the school is set,
    Every one of her sons must hear,
    And none that hears it dare forget.
    This they all with a joyful mind
    Bear through life like a torch in flame,
    And falling fling to the host behind—
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"


1892, Vitaї Lampada, Henry John Newbolt

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
I have never come across anyone more conformist and unthinkingly PC than you, Bwian. Original or contrarian  ideas are what you have set your face against with vehemence and loathing and unfailing peckniffish vigour.


"Play up! play up! and play the game!"   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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85% of Australians support Multiculturalism - https://www.monash.edu/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/1189188/mapping-social-cohesion-national-report-2017.pdf
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freediver
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #50 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 6:32am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 11:59pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
Those private schools tend to have much higher academic standards. Very unpleasant for "free thinkers".


I always understood it was how much money the parents were willing to pay, FD.  Where did you go to school, out of a matter of interest?   Roll Eyes


Germany, California, and a few places in QLD.
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gandalf
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #51 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 9:34am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:49pm:
gandalf wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
There is a tendency to take what Muslims say at face value, which is understandable because we are used to people being honest about their views, especially their religious views. But if they keep talking it soon becomes apparent that they mean the opposite of what they initially said. Another classic example was Abu's "different take" on words like democracy and freedom.


The thing is, everything I've read from Abu has been notable for how unapologetically open and honest he is. He has abhorrent views to be sure, but I don't think he's been anything other than clear and honest about them. Every time you reference him its about some clear and open view of something, not a two-faced view that can only be gleaned from listening to the opposite of what he says. My guess is the FD 'listen to what muslims say' filter works something like:

muslim says something abhorent = truth
whereas muslims says something agreeable = being two-faced/mealy mouthed.


He did the turd polishing thing for a few years before you turned up. That's why I started the wiki.


Thats really funny FD. The wiki is nothing but you paraphrasing, and mostly misrepresenting what muslims say, with footnotes linking to discussions that are only vaguely relevant. A lot of the time the "source" is just a link to your own post either jumping to a baseless conclusion, or putting words in people's mouth. You "expose" mealy mouthed muslims by indulging in your own perverse pursuit of confirmation bias.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #52 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 12:16pm
 
Would you like to pick an example to demonstrate?

How about the mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme?

Or Abu's "different take" on freedom and democracy?
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #53 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 2:06pm
 
Or beheading gays who do it mardis gras style? Not sure if that one made it. Or how about finding a claim made by a single muslim and pretending it was said by "muslims" (plural) en masse? Wait, just let me brace for the old reliable "prove to me more than one didn't say it" retort.

freediver wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 12:16pm:
mindless collective of treacherous Jews


Oh you put that one in did you? Sorry I'm a bit behind.

An excellent example of shoving words down people's throat. Go on FD, prove me wrong again with that excellent question about are they 1. mindless 2. collective 3. treacherous and 4. jews. That'll learn me!
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #54 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 2:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 6:32am:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 11:59pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
Those private schools tend to have much higher academic standards. Very unpleasant for "free thinkers".


I always understood it was how much money the parents were willing to pay, FD.  Where did you go to school, out of a matter of interest?   Roll Eyes


Germany, California, and a few places in QLD.


What sort of schools?  Private or Public (as in State sponsored, not the British concept of a Public School)? 
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gandalf
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #55 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 2:29pm
 
Under the heading "Lying about the Quran"

Quote:
Muslims will argue that a reference to a subgroup of pagans (those with a treaty) must imply that all references to pagans in the chapter must refer to those with a treaty (even when it does not make sense), because the it does specifically mention pagans without a treaty. It was never explained why this was necessary in order to refer to pagans in general.


This paragraph is at best flawed, and at worst complete gibberish. When the first words of the entire chapter are to literally say this revelation is directed towards pagans with a treaty, of course it "makes sense" to assume that it implies that all subsequent references to pagans are references to the same pagans - when no other pagans are specified. The one post of mine (of many) that you footnoted for this entire gibberish statement clearly goes to a lot of trouble to explain all the things you claim were not explained.

So, anyway you object to something you think is either logically fallacious or inadequately explained, and you simply dismiss it as "lying".
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #56 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 4:28pm
 
gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 9:34am:
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:49pm:
gandalf wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 1:23pm:
There is a tendency to take what Muslims say at face value, which is understandable because we are used to people being honest about their views, especially their religious views. But if they keep talking it soon becomes apparent that they mean the opposite of what they initially said. Another classic example was Abu's "different take" on words like democracy and freedom.


The thing is, everything I've read from Abu has been notable for how unapologetically open and honest he is. He has abhorrent views to be sure, but I don't think he's been anything other than clear and honest about them. Every time you reference him its about some clear and open view of something, not a two-faced view that can only be gleaned from listening to the opposite of what he says. My guess is the FD 'listen to what muslims say' filter works something like:

muslim says something abhorent = truth
whereas muslims says something agreeable = being two-faced/mealy mouthed.


He did the turd polishing thing for a few years before you turned up. That's why I started the wiki.


Thats really funny FD. The wiki is nothing but you paraphrasing, and mostly misrepresenting what muslims say, with footnotes linking to discussions that are only vaguely relevant. A lot of the time the "source" is just a link to your own post either jumping to a baseless conclusion, or putting words in people's mouth. You "expose" mealy mouthed muslims by indulging in your own perverse pursuit of confirmation bias.


Ah. Freeeedom.
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Karnal
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #57 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 4:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 12:16pm:
Would you like to pick an example to demonstrate?

How about the mindless collective of treacherous Jews meme?


Good point, FD. Who came up with that meme?
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Karnal
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #58 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 4:42pm
 
gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
Under the heading "Lying about the Quran"

So, anyway you object to something you think is either logically fallacious or inadequately explained, and you simply dismiss it as "lying".


But of course. We call this no-speaka-da-English. It can be applied to everything FD doesn't understand, which includes all foreign cultures, different (or difficult) concepts and all ancient history.

It also covers all forms of tintedness.
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Frank
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Re: Indonesia 2004
Reply #59 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 7:45pm
 
gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
Under the heading "Lying about the Quran"

Quote:
Muslims will argue that a reference to a subgroup of pagans (those with a treaty) must imply that all references to pagans in the chapter must refer to those with a treaty (even when it does not make sense), because the it does specifically mention pagans without a treaty. It was never explained why this was necessary in order to refer to pagans in general.


This paragraph is at best flawed, and at worst complete gibberish. When the first words of the entire chapter are to literally say this revelation is directed towards pagans with a treaty, of course it "makes sense" to assume that it implies that all subsequent references to pagans are references to the same pagans - when no other pagans are specified. The one post of mine (of many) that you footnoted for this entire gibberish statement clearly goes to a lot of trouble to explain all the things you claim were not explained.

So, anyway you object to something you think is either logically fallacious or inadequately explained, and you simply dismiss it as "lying".



A very important point is illustrated here, the fundamentally different ways of seeing and thinking as a Muslim and as a Western non-Muslim (Christian or atheist or agnostic).

Islam has its own 1400 year old history of intellectual interpretation of texts and through them, of the world. The West has a about 2500 years of such a history. The intellectual history of the west before Islam is significant and is very different from Islam's way of looking and seeing. in some very important ways Islam consciously broke with that earlier Western way of thinking. The parallel 1400 years the west has had with Islam is a period of ongoing a significantly different, often incompatible ways of looking and seeing.
And so now when the two threads brought face to face in the shared medium of English (with its own ways of looking, seeing, noticing etc), it is an easy mistake to assume that we are all talking a 'common language'. But we aren't. Linguistically we may well be but not epistemologically, ontologically, teleologically etc, etc. (in short we are not speaking from shared and accepted common premises about shared and accepted goals in shared and accepted ways of achieving them). Westerners are constantly checking their assumptions (thank you, Greeks, thank you critical thinking, scientific revolution, Enlightenment, Kant, Hume, etc, etc) while Muslims do not if the assumption is sourced from the Koran.

For example, for Arabs to regard the Koran as the best of all books with the most perfect language they have to be thinking and seeing COMPLETELY outside every Western understanding of what makes a great text. For a Westerner the Koran is an unbelievably confused and tedious and jumbled text with very little rhyme or reason. Yet Muslim Arabs orient their lives by it. Speaking English is not going to overcome that gulf.







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