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Tell free-speech deniers what you really think (Read 775 times)
Yadda
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Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Sep 4th, 2018 at 9:38am
 

Tell totalitarian free-speech deniers what you really think !


...unless you are content, to allow others, to expunge all reason and dissent from Western societies.




Quote:

Tell totalitarian free-speech deniers what you really think

Allister Heath
30 August 2018

Never before has it been so easy to communicate, to express one’s views, to write, publish, talk or broadcast.

Yet instead of ushering in the golden age for free speech and rational enquiry that so many of us expected, the very technologies that were meant to liberate us are being used to stifle expression and stamp out dissent.

“You can’t say that”, “you must say this”: on social media, in universities and increasingly in every other institution across the land, a hideous battle is raging, and liberty is losing.

The range of views that can be expressed without fear of reprisal has narrowed dramatically, partly because we’ve lost the language and manners required to disagree constructively.


....You must prove you are not guilty of offending others’ feelings, which is impossible.



The strategy, for the tens of thousands of activists working in digital packs, is to bully, shame and destroy anybody who doesn’t agree with them, who dares to express a different opinion or who fails to signal their virtue appropriately.


....If somebody believes that somebody.....meant something, then it must be true.



Nobody from the sensible Left or sensible Right is immune from this catastrophic outbreak of nihilism; everything and everyone is fair game.


......The aim is to encourage self-censorship, policed by an army of vigilantes.

It’s working:

Nobody ever comes to the defence of those being trashed, and mainstream Britain is quietly withdrawing, ensuring that the public discourse is ever more dominated by the angriest voices.


....The reality is that free speech isn’t just about a legal system that allows you, with some restrictions, to say, write or publish what you want.


No,        free speech describes an entire ethical system that places the utmost value on people’s right to express their beliefs, to dissent, to think for themselves, to debate, to discuss and, yes, to err.



It is an integral element of the classical liberal character, and, for a short while, such an approach became the norm in many Western countries.

Real freedom of expression implies some measure of openness, of curiosity, the ability to listen, at least occasionally, to others and to learn to live with difference.


.....Free speech        .....a society where most speech is technically allowed, but any deviations from arbitrary and highly controlled norms trigger instant action from outrage mobs isn’t free any longer.


....Some people belong to powerful groups (such as white men), others are oppressed (most but not all minorities).

Any arguments made by the former are inherently biased and can be labelled at will as a form of “violence”, a way of inflicting “micro-aggressions” on the latter.


It is a denial of reason, a massive leap back into the dark ages, but this framework rationalises the thuggish behaviour of the Twitter extremists.

It makes it easy to shut down viewpoints, and to dismiss critics as suffering from false consciousness.

It has empowered those, like British Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn, who want the state to control newspapers.



The decline of free speech is now the greatest threat facing Britain and the West.

Without the freedom to think freely, to question, to disagree, we are nothing.



https://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-west-australian/20180901/2819474287228...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/30/twitter-mobs-moral-police-decline-fr...

They are both, register-for-free-to-read sites.


an open source link to the article is here....
https://gulfnews.com/opinion/thinkers/free-speech-faces-a-new-dark-age-unless-we...



A thought provoking article, replete with reasoned argument.

But are we worthy,            of freedom, of personal liberty, or, of having the right to express a dissenting view [from the majority] ?



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Frank
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Re: Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Reply #1 - Sep 4th, 2018 at 10:15am
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 9:38am:
....The reality is that free speech isn’t just about a legal system that allows you, with some restrictions, to say, write or publish what you want.


No,        free speech describes an entire ethical system that places the utmost value on people’s right to express their beliefs, to dissent, to think for themselves, to debate, to discuss and, yes, to err.[/size]


It is an integral element of the classical liberal character, and, for a short while, such an approach became the norm in many Western countries.

Real freedom of expression implies some measure of openness, of curiosity, the ability to listen, at least occasionally, to others and to learn to live with difference.


.....Free speech        .....a society where most speech is technically allowed, but any deviations from arbitrary and highly controlled norms trigger instant action from outrage mobs isn’t free any longer.





Political correctness is ever-resent to abjudicate. correct, adjust and condemn and censure.  Bwian, for example, tut-tuts his way through life, rolling his eyes and correcting and adjusting. He is the winged insect and honey gatherer of errors.
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Reply #2 - Sep 4th, 2018 at 10:16am
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 4th, 2018 at 9:38am:
A thought provoking article, replete with reasoned argument.

But are we worthy,            of freedom, of personal liberty, or, of having the right to express a dissenting view [from the majority] ?








I don't have a problem with people exercising their right to free speech. But I have two issues that crop up in my experience

1. Often when politicians (Lleyonhjelm) or media people (Bolt) bang on about free speech, what they actually mean is their right to say what they want. They usually crack a poo when they are on the receiving end.
2. Having the right to free speech means the duty to think carefully before you open your mouth.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Yadda
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Re: Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Reply #3 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 10:35am
 


Google;
The Economist Stands By Steve Bannon Speaking Gig


Google;
how questioning can drive arguments, productive debate


Google;
rigorous questioning and debate, "The Economist"




Quote:

The Economist Says "Rigorous Questioning And Debate" Will Expose Ideas Pushed By Steve Bannon


The British magazine publicly confirmed it would continue to host the former presidential adviser despite a boycott from its #MeToo panel.

Originally posted on September 04, 2018


.....The editor-in-chief of British financial magazine The Economist, Zanny Minton Beddoes, has posted a statement on Twitter explaining why the magazine will host former presidential strategist and Breitbart chair Steve Bannon at its upcoming "Open Future festival".

The statement came after BuzzFeed News revealed the magazine privately told panellists who were invited to discuss #MeToo for an upcoming festival that it would continue to host him, because it was "critical we invite views from all sides".



....When the news of Bannon's scheduled Economist appearance was made more widely known on Twitter yesterday, British journalist Laurie Penny and activist Ally Fogg tweeted that they'd be boycotting the event.

Laurie Penny
@PennyRed

I was honoured to be invited by @theeconomist to speak as part of their prestigious #openfuture convention - but I cannot in good conscience appear at an event which chooses to dignify a neo-nationalist like Steve Bannon.

Unless this decision is reversed, I will not be attending.       https://t.co/8UcIpABcd4
12:23 PM - 03 Sep 2018
Reply Retweet Favorite


....Penny told BuzzFeed News....."We know what the views are, but by giving him space at an event like this it dignifies him with the status of someone's ideas who are worth hearing out.

There are no new arguments for neo-nationalism.

There are only new recruits."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/the-economist-emailed-metoo-panellists-to...



.



Sep-07, 2018
On ABC Morning Breakfast today, on the 'morning confab'....

The Economist article [above] was mentioned in the session.

And in an environment [ref, The Economist/buzzfeed article] of 'slamming' those who would seek to gag others, who held views that they opposed...

"Yes! What about the contest of ideas!"
- Virginia Trioli


It was amusing this morning, watching Virginia Trioli 'virtue signalling'
[basically, about her own high journalistic principles], 'signalling' that, yes, of course, a senior and experienced journalist like herself, would always be willing to give a platform for expression, even to persons whom she may disagree with, and dislike!
e.g. persons like Steve Bannon        Grin

'Flag in the wind.'



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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2018 at 11:40am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Reply #4 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 2:13pm
 
You are the perfect example Yadda. Bang on about your right to free speech, ad do two things

1. Ignore anyone elses rights
2. Don't practice thinking before you speak.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Yadda
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Re: Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Reply #5 - Sep 7th, 2018 at 6:44pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 7th, 2018 at 2:13pm:

You are the perfect example Yadda. Bang on about your right to free speech, ad do two things

1. Ignore anyone elses rights
2. Don't practice thinking before you speak.




Bojack,

But at least, on a free [public] and open, liberal forum, such as this one,
YOU have the opportunity to criticise my opinions, and to castigate me, and to call me a racist and a bigot.



.



this is what i once posted [for space, over about 4 posts] on the ABC Q&A online forum.

go and Google sections of it.

you will not find it, because it was removed by the ABC Q&A online staff!....


Quote:

WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF THIS TYPE OF 'MODERATION' IN A [POLITICAL] FORUM?

One obvious consequence is that ALL DEBATE on a particular issue [on such a forum, within that forum] can be 'guided'.

The debate is 'guided', to the point where only 'acceptable' views, will influence THE DIRECTION OF THE DEBATE.

In other words, what is ostensibly [to an outside observer] an open, online forum, for politial debate, becomes a *pseudo* forum for politial debate.



.



THE WHOLE POINT OF FREE AND OPEN DEBATE

What the ABC forum MODERATORS are effectively saying is,

"Your point of view is [pick one] untrue/offensive/too contentious. And i won't allow such views to be expressed here."

My argument to the MODERATORS is,
ABC forum MODERATORS may disagree with my opinions, and even say that my opinions are untrue or 'offensive' to some.

But if they feel that, then shouldn't they, or somebody else, be prepared to make that argument, IN THE FORUM, against any points i present?

If i do regard ISLAM as an 'offensive' philosophy, then in a 'free and open' forum, shouldn't i be permitted to express that point of view, and to demonstrate, why i hold that particular view about ISLAM?

And if the detractors [of certain comments i have made] have a legitimate complaint, then let them air it [IN THE FORUM], and have their complaint tested in debate!
.....FOR ALL TO SEE.


Shouldn't the ABC forum MODERATORS allow those people who frequent the ABC forum pages, to decide for themselves if my [or anyone elses] arguments have any merit [or not]?

If what i say is untrue, or ridiculous, that fact, will soon become apparent to everyone, when what i say, is exposed to the light of [widespread] scrutiny.



Open societies do not fear the opinions of fools.
....they rather, EXPOSE and laugh at folly!

In any free and open debate, if a 'position' is absurd, if an 'argument' is absurd,
...then the debater is [often] condemned to all, WITH HIS OWN WORDS.

And isn't the exposure of folly, and error, THE VERY FUNCTION, of free and open debate?

Free and open debate *is meant* to be a contest of ideas!
....where every folly is revealed.

And i would contend, that open debate is healthy, to all general freedoms in a society.

Whereas, lies are easily concealed in closed societies,
....*because* these closed societies are places where lies, and falsehood,
....ARE NEVER EXPOSED TO SCRUTINY, OR SPOKEN TRUTH.

I would also ask, isn't a very *legitimate* purpose of open debate, to reveal 'error', or to reveal positions held, which are unjust [towards third party's]???

I would contend here, that in any open society, the instruction of TRUTH [what TRUTH reveals to us], is *never* offensive.

Or it should not be held, to be so!

And i would contend that, in any open society, TRUTH the first defence of JUSTICE [in that society].

For the sake of free, and open debate, FREEDOM OF SPEECH must *mean*, the freedom to 'offend' [others who would 'gag' us].


CONSIDER.....

If 'the powers that be' determined to censor and gag debate in society, on the basis that material [information] which may be revealed, was confronting, or distasteful,
....then why do we as a society, feel the need to investigate and debate, issues like CHILD ABUSE and INCESTUAL RAPE???

And using the same logic, of those who claim they are being shamed, humiliated, or 'insulted', by the revelation of confronting or distasteful information,
.....shouldn't we as a society, then suppress the reporting, and debate, of CHILD ABUSE, and INCESTUAL RAPE within society????







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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Reply #6 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 5:07am
 
FFS! Just copy and paste articles without the fancy resizing of the font. Just put in excerpts of the article, and leave a link.
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Re: Tell free-speech deniers what you really think
Reply #7 - Sep 9th, 2018 at 3:14pm
 
Der Londonisher Tagenblag und der Englandervolk Beobachter.......  Londonski Novosti ....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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