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Dhimmitude is against oppression? (Read 9101 times)
Karnal
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #180 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:03pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 9:16pm:
Would you like to be a dhimmi?  Your daughters and wives to be dhimmis?


Gandalf, you are avoiding the point - would you be happy for your daughters and wives to be dhimmis?

(paki the Vietnam war veteran ( Cheesy) indicated that he would submit to anything as long as he didn't have defend his 'cuntry', a place he abhors).



Damn right. The cheese-sniffer expects us to fight for the Kingdom of Denmark.

Been there, done that.
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Frank
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #181 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:38pm
 
Karnal wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:03pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 9:16pm:
Would you like to be a dhimmi?  Your daughters and wives to be dhimmis?


Gandalf, you are avoiding the point - would you be happy for your daughters and wives to be dhimmis?

(paki the Vietnam war veteran ( Cheesy) indicated that he would submit to anything as long as he didn't have defend his 'cuntry', a place he abhors).



Damn right. The cheese-sniffer expects us to fight for the Kingdom of Denmark.

Been there, done that.

And then you switched to arse'oles. Cheese too 'white' for ya, paki?


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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:52pm by Frank »  
 
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Karnal
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #182 - Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:45pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:38pm:
Karnal wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 10:03pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 14th, 2018 at 8:46pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 12th, 2018 at 9:16pm:
Would you like to be a dhimmi?  Your daughters and wives to be dhimmis?


Gandalf, you are avoiding the point - would you be happy for your daughters and wives to be dhimmis?

(paki the Vietnam war veteran ( Cheesy) indicated that he would submit to anything as long as he didn't have defend his 'cuntry', a place he abhors).



Damn right. The cheese-sniffer expects us to fight for the Kingdom of Denmark.

Been there, done that.

And then you switched to arse'oles. Cheese to 'white' for ya, paki?




Fck off, we're full.
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freediver
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #183 - Sep 16th, 2018 at 1:11pm
 
Quote:
a particular group of pagans? I think you are confused. All groups under Muhammad's rule - pagans, jews, muslims, christians if there were any - were included in the Constitution of Medina. None were excluded:

Non-Muslim members have equal political and cultural rights as Muslims. They will have autonomy and freedom of religion.


Gandalf, can you explain how this is consistent with Muhammad threatening to slaughter Jews if they did not convert to Islam? He did this as soon as he was in a position to threaten people. And then followed this up by slaughtering some and expelling the others.

Quote:
Do you think it is misleading to argue that dhimmitude is inherently oppressive


No. It is inherently oppressive. It is religious apartheid. One set of rules for Muslims, one set for Jews and Christians. One set for pagans. You would not tolerate the reverse situation, yet somehow you expect non-Muslims to be naive enough to see Muslims as some kind of benign overlord. You are polishing a turd Gandalf.

Quote:
when supporting this argument requires you to ignore the fact that under the system, freedom of religion and protection of religious minorities was specifically written into law - and that for most of Islam's history, these laws were abided by?


Gandalf, when I asked you what rights Muhamamd extended to pagans, I was not asking you what rights Muslims lie about, or what rights were written down by Muhammad but ignored in practice. I was asking you what rights he actually extended. In reality.

Other than converting or dying, what legal rights did Muhammad extend to Pagans?

Did the Jews have the right to keep their head attached to their body?

When Muhammad first came into a position where he could get away with slaughtering people, and he celebrated by publicly threatening to slaughter the Medina Jews if they did not convert to Islam, was he defending their right to convert to Islam, or their right to die?
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gandalf
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #184 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 1:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 16th, 2018 at 1:11pm:
Gandalf, can you explain how this is consistent with Muhammad threatening to slaughter Jews if they did not convert to Islam? He did this as soon as he was in a position to threaten people. And then followed this up by slaughtering some and expelling the others.


Do you know what I'm hearing FD? I'm hearing "Gandalf why can't you answer my question by premising it on my skewed 'wikipedia-cherry picked' mickey mouse understanding of the life of Muhammad?"

Can you cite any actual instances - even fairy tale "FD-history" ones - where Muhammad went back on his word regarding the rights of the pagans under his rule that were "written down" in the constitution of Medina? Did you notice that whenever you try and make a point about pagan rights being violated, you only cite examples about jews?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #185 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:39pm
 
When Muslims say that Dhimmitude is against oppression, do they really mean only for those non-Muslims in a position to negotiate some rights for themselves, and only for so long as Muslims choose to honour their agreement? Should we take this behaviour as indicative of the broader approach that Muslims have to respecting human rights?

Do you think I am being unfair by cherry picking Muhammad's campaign of genocide and ethnic cleansing rather than focus on all the nice things he did?

Other than converting or dying, what legal rights did Muhammad extend to Pagans?

Did the Jews have the right to keep their head attached to their body?

When Muhammad first came into a position where he could get away with slaughtering people, and he celebrated by publicly threatening to slaughter the Medina Jews if they did not convert to Islam, was he defending their right to convert to Islam, or their right to die?

How does the banning of pagans (and all non-Muslims) from their own Mecca for pagan ritual, and then the broader hejaz region, including Medina where they were supposedly protected by that constitution, fit in with your BS about pagans having rights?

How do Muhammad's campaigns to slaughter pagans and destroy pagan monuments and shrines fit in with your lies about pagans having rights?

And what about "tough titties, off with their heads"? Would you trust someone who said this about people they later insisted had rights?
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« Last Edit: Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:46pm by freediver »  

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.JaSin.
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #186 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:51pm
 
All 'Prophets' are Rednecks. Mohommed was a Redneck (kill the people!) and Hitler was a Redneck (kill the people)...
...while all Messiahs a Poofs. Jesus was a Poof (people kill Messiah) and soon the French will provide a Messiah for the Moslems to be appeased ...hence the growth in 'Pro-Gay' agenda.

Only have to look in Melbourne and you'll see all the Redneck 'Prophet' potential Jews rooting around.
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Karnal
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #187 - Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:54pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:39pm:
When Muslims say that Dhimmitude is against oppression, do they really mean only for those non-Muslims in a position to negotiate some rights for themselves, and only for so long as Muslims choose to honour their agreement? Should we take this behaviour as indicative of the broader approach that Muslims have to respecting human rights?

Do you think I am being unfair by cherry picking Muhammad's campaign of genocide and ethnic cleansing rather than focus on all the nice things he did?

Other than converting or dying, what legal rights did Muhammad extend to Pagans?

Did the Jews have the right to keep their head attached to their body?

When Muhammad first came into a position where he could get away with slaughtering people, and he celebrated by publicly threatening to slaughter the Medina Jews if they did not convert to Islam, was he defending their right to convert to Islam, or their right to die?

How does the banning of pagans (and all non-Muslims) from their own Mecca for pagan ritual, and then the broader hejaz region, including Medina where they were supposedly protected by that constitution, fit in with your BS about pagans having rights?

How do Muhammad's campaigns to slaughter pagans and destroy pagan monuments and shrines fit in with your lies about pagans having rights?

And what about "tough titties, off with their heads"? Would you trust someone who said this about people they later insisted had rights?


Good questions, FD. Do you mind if I ask you one?
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gandalf
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #188 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 9:03am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2018 at 8:39pm:
When Muslims say that Dhimmitude is against oppression, do they really mean only for those non-Muslims in a position to negotiate some rights for themselves, and only for so long as Muslims choose to honour their agreement? Should we take this behaviour as indicative of the broader approach that Muslims have to respecting human rights?

Do you think I am being unfair by cherry picking Muhammad's campaign of genocide and ethnic cleansing rather than focus on all the nice things he did?

Other than converting or dying, what legal rights did Muhammad extend to Pagans?

Did the Jews have the right to keep their head attached to their body?

When Muhammad first came into a position where he could get away with slaughtering people, and he celebrated by publicly threatening to slaughter the Medina Jews if they did not convert to Islam, was he defending their right to convert to Islam, or their right to die?

How does the banning of pagans (and all non-Muslims) from their own Mecca for pagan ritual, and then the broader hejaz region, including Medina where they were supposedly protected by that constitution, fit in with your BS about pagans having rights?

How do Muhammad's campaigns to slaughter pagans and destroy pagan monuments and shrines fit in with your lies about pagans having rights?

And what about "tough titties, off with their heads"? Would you trust someone who said this about people they later insisted had rights?


Do yourself a favour FD, why not just write a script that copies and pastes the same inane post automatically for you, rather than going to the bother of copy-paste it manually?

... or maybe you already did
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #189 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 12:09pm
 
Perhaps we should establish a timeline of Muhammad's sinister backflips and the use of Dhimmitude as a tool of grinding oppression.

After Muhammad concocted this constitution that supposedly granted the citizens of Medina freedom of religion, how long was it until he threatened the Jews of Medina with slaughter if they did not convert to Islam?

How long was it until he followed through with his threats and committed genocide?

How long was it until Muslims started blaming the Jews for their own demise with mindless collectives of treacherous Jews memes?

How long was it until pagans were banned from their own shrine in Mecca?

How long was it until pagans were banned from the city of Mecca?

How long was it until pagans were banned from the region of Hejaz, including Medina?

How long was it until Muhammad was launching raids to slaughter pagans and destroy competing pagan monuments and shrines?

How do you expect people to take you seriously when you claim Muhammad granted non-Muslims basic human rights such as freedom of religion?
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gandalf
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #190 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 1:14pm
 
ah we're back to "please base your answer on my cherry-picked wikipedia mickey mouse version of history".

As you were.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #191 - Sep 19th, 2018 at 4:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 19th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
Perhaps we should establish a timeline of Muhammad's sinister backflips and the use of Dhimmitude as a tool of grinding oppression.

After Muhammad concocted this constitution that supposedly granted the citizens of Medina freedom of religion, how long was it until he threatened the Jews of Medina with slaughter if they did not convert to Islam?

How long was it until he followed through with his threats and committed genocide?

How long was it until Muslims started blaming the Jews for their own demise with mindless collectives of treacherous Jews memes?

How long was it until pagans were banned from their own shrine in Mecca?

How long was it until pagans were banned from the city of Mecca?

How long was it until pagans were banned from the region of Hejaz, including Medina?

How long was it until Muhammad was launching raids to slaughter pagans and destroy competing pagan monuments and shrines?

How do you expect people to take you seriously when you claim Muhammad granted non-Muslims basic human rights such as freedom of religion?


Good questions, FD. Do you mind if I ask you one?
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freediver
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #192 - Sep 22nd, 2018 at 11:19am
 
Gandalf, can you explain in your own words what rights you think Muhammad gave pagans and how he used the institution of Dhimmitude to protect them?
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Karnal
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #193 - Sep 22nd, 2018 at 11:32am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 11:19am:
Gandalf, can you explain in your own words what rights you think Muhammad gave pagans and how he used the institution of Dhimmitude to protect them?


Yes, G, no sources this time, please. And try to use different words to the last time you explained it, okay?

Also, if you could make something up for FD, it would be much appreciated.
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Re: Dhimmitude is against oppression?
Reply #194 - Sep 22nd, 2018 at 2:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 22nd, 2018 at 11:19am:
Gandalf, can you explain in your own words what rights you think Muhammad gave pagans and how he used the institution of Dhimmitude to protect them?


The Constitution of Medina protected those rights.

I don't know why you're finding this difficult to believe.
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