Australian Politics Forum - Muslims and government funds

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Muslims and government funds Reply #150 - Oct 6^th, 2018 at 6:59am Quote: I understand the distinction between indirect and directly funding terrorists. It has no bearing on what she actually said though. It is the distinction she made Gandalf, and you are misrepresenting her by pretending it was something else.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #151 - Oct 9^th, 2018 at 11:37am

freediver wrote on Oct 6^th, 2018 at 6:59am:

It is the distinction she made Gandalf, and you are misrepresenting her by pretending it was something else.

Rubbish. She said she was concerned there was a chance of Australian aid money being used for nefarious purposes under the previous arrangement, and therefore the money should go through a different channel.

There is no distinction of anything being made. She stated just that, plain and simple.

You then pretended this was, and I quote, "Julie Bishop's explanation of how Australian government funds end up supporting terrorism". How utterly utterly absurd for you to claim such a thing. But not unusual at all. Also not unusual for you to do your slippery jellyfish routine to divert attention away from this utterly utterly stupid claim - as you are doing now with this inane "its about some distinction" babble.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #152 - Oct 9^th, 2018 at 7:03pm

Quote:

Rubbish. She said she was concerned there was a chance of Australian aid money being used for nefarious purposes under the previous arrangement, and therefore the money should go through a different channel.

You claimed previously she was talking only about concerns for future funds. Are you backpedaling on that? I have been trying to get a straight answer from you for about 30 pages now.

She did not mention the previous government. From the OP of this thread:

freediver wrote on Jul 5^th, 2018 at 12:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 4^th, 2018 at 12:52pm:

The thread title is wrong:

Quote:

Australia sends about $10 million in aid to Palestine territories. It will now direct its funds through the United Nations.

also, for good measure...

Quote:

Ms Bishop said she was confident no Australian funds had been used inappropriately.

"I am confident that previous Australian funding to the PA through the World Bank has been used as intended," she said in a statement.

"However, I am concerned that in providing funds for this aspect of the PA's operations, there is an opportunity for it to use its own budget to [fund] activities that Australia would never support."

good grief, FD wouldn't be using a deliberately misleading thread title with the sole purpose of causing outrage would he??

Read your own quote. We put $10 million into the Palestinian Authority's bank account. They withdraw a 'different' $10 million to give to terrorists.

Muslim accounting.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92264 Gender:	Re: Muslims and government funds Reply #153 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 2:36am FD, you claimed previously Julie Bishop said 30 million Australian dollars were spent on suicide vests. Are you back-pedalling on this? Oh, never mind, you've backpedalled on everything you've said in this thread. One more thing won't make a difference.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #154 - Oct 10^th, 2018 at 3:07pm

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2018 at 7:03pm:

You claimed previously she was talking only about concerns for future funds. Are you backpedaling on that? I have been trying to get a straight answer from you for about 30 pages now.

Of course thats what she said. Not sure why you don't think I've been straight on this, I've been crystal clear on it: she said there was a risk, but nontheless she was confident nothing untoward had happened in the past. She changed the arrangement so that this potential loophole was closed up.

freediver wrote on Oct 9^th, 2018 at 7:03pm:

I have been trying to get a straight answer from you for about 30 pages now.

No FD, the 30 pages has been you squirming and wriggling your way out of the utterly utterly stupid claim that Julie Bishop stated as fact that our aid money had gone to terrorists. Oh look, you're doing it even now - notice how you've spent the last half of this discussion not being able to even mention that claim any more? I don't blame you, the last time you talked about it, it was in the form of "oh you can't expect her to actually say it - but nah yeah she did still say it". Can't blame you for being a jellyfish after that howler.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Muslims and government funds Reply #155 - Oct 13^th, 2018 at 8:29am Quote: Of course thats what she said. So she claimed there was only a risk that in the future a previous government would indirectly fund terrorism? Is this supposed to make people feel more comfortable about the government giving funds to Muslim organisations?
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Mattyfisk

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #156 - Oct 13^th, 2018 at 5:49pm

freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2018 at 8:29am:

Quote:

Of course thats what she said.

So she claimed there was only a risk that in the future a previous government would indirectly fund terrorism?

Excuse me, FD, why are you asking this after 11 pages? You started this thread to show that Julie Bishop said Australia had spent 13 million on suicide vests.

Are you now saying this was a lie?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #157 - Oct 15^th, 2018 at 1:57pm

freediver wrote on Oct 13^th, 2018 at 8:29am:

Quote:

Of course thats what she said.

So she claimed there was only a risk that in the future a previous government would indirectly fund terrorism?

She said what she said FD. No need to use different language to what she actually used, and hint at things that she never said. In case you are still confused, here it is again for you:

Quote:

"I am confident that previous Australian funding to the PA through the World Bank has been used as intended," she said in a statement.

"However, I am concerned that in providing funds for this aspect of the PA's operations, there is an opportunity for it to use its own budget to [fund] activities that Australia would never support."

"there is an opportunity" typically implies a future threat, what it most certainly isn't is a stating as fact that it is happening right now - especially right after saying very clearly that she didn't believe anything untoward had happened.

Quote:

Is this supposed to make people feel more comfortable about the government giving funds to Muslim organisations?

Its not "supposed" to make anything. It is what it is - and what it plainly *ISNT* is stating as fact that our money was already being given to terrorists. This is the point you are still dodging and weaving from - 30 pages and counting

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #158 - Oct 15^th, 2018 at 6:19pm

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She said what she said FD. No need to use different language to what she actually used, and hint at things that she never said.

But what did she say? That only a previous government funded terrorism, or that it was only a potential future problem? Or neither of your versions? Or are you going to flip flop between the two so you never have to explain either?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #159 - Oct 16^th, 2018 at 8:00am

FD "there is an opportunity" implies a current and future threat, obviously, and thats why she closed up the loophole that created that threat. She was also quick to point out that she didn't believe anything untoward had happened. There is nothing about previous governments, nor did I ever say there was. there you go making up things again tsk tsk.

Do you agree that what she clearly *DIDN'T* say was that our money is in fact going to terrorists now? Would you like to duck and weave some more?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #160 - Oct 16^th, 2018 at 8:06am

Quote:

FD "there is an opportunity" implies a current and future threat, obviously, and thats why she closed up the loophole that created that threat.

By "closing the loophole", do you mean not giving money to the PA?

Quote:

She was also quick to point out that she didn't believe anything untoward had happened.

She made a distinction between direct and indirect funding of terrorists. She did not claim that "nothing untoward" happened, only that we were not directly funding terrorism.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #161 - Oct 16^th, 2018 at 8:19am

FD can you clarify where you got this absurd idea that either Bishop or myself was ever talking about previous governments funding terrorists?

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 8:06am:

By "closing the loophole", do you mean not giving money to the PA?

By changing the funding arrangements so that it goes through the UN instead of the World Bank. We are still "giving money to the PA". Can you manage to get just one thing right from her quote FD? Pretty simple stuff.

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 8:06am:

She made a distinction between direct and indirect funding of terrorists.

No she didn't. You just can't help yourself can you?

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2018 at 8:06am:

She did not claim that "nothing untoward" happened,

"nothing untoward" is about as close as you can get to "previous Australian funding to the PA through the World Bank has been used as intended" without writing that quote out verbatim

Do you agree that what she clearly *DIDN'T* say was that our money is in fact going to terrorists now? ? Or would you like to duck and weave some more? Do I need to write out this question in a separate post for you to answer? Perhaps a new thread?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #162 - Oct 16^th, 2018 at 9:23am

Quote:

FD can you clarify where you got this absurd idea that either Bishop or myself was ever talking about previous governments funding terrorists?

My bad. I misread "previous arrangement".

Quote:

By changing the funding arrangements so that it goes through the UN instead of the World Bank. We are still "giving money to the PA". Can you manage to get just one thing right from her quote FD? Pretty simple stuff.

We are bypassing the PA.

Quote:

No she didn't. You just can't help yourself can you?

Yes she did.

Quote:

"nothing untoward" is about as close as you can get to "previous Australian funding to the PA through the World Bank has been used as intended" without writing that quote out verbatim

In other words, they were not directly funding terrorism. She is not saying there was no indirect funding, and she immediately followed this statement by pointing out the risk of indirect funding, without implying, as you suggest, that it is only a future problem.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslims and government funds Reply #163 - Oct 16^th, 2018 at 9:39am OK, lets try the "dedicated post" route - see if that makes a difference: Do you agree that what she clearly DIDN'T say was that our money is in fact going to terrorists now?
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freediver

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Re: Muslims and government funds
Reply #164 - Oct 16^th, 2018 at 10:18am

Sure. I got that from other sources. Bishop said we were definitely giving money to the PA. She declined to point out that it is already well known that the PA funds terrorism. She only acknowledged the possibility.

She was making a distinction between direct and indirect funding of terrorism. She did not say that the risk of indirect funding only applies to the future.

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