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Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic (Read 3267 times)
Unforgiven
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Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm
 
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #1 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:51pm
 
The art of war is not to die for your country; but to make your enemy die for his.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #2 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:05pm
 
Sounds like the sort of shallow minded luxury you can afford when your security is handed to you on a platter.

What if you have to kill some people to save others?

Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?

Is it just the bit where they get paid that you object to?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #3 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


In the last couple of centuries, soldiers in most Western countries have been seen as heroes when the did something selfless in dangerous situations. If you have some particular person in mind, whose heroism was the number of people he killed, then you should tell us.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #4 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:09pm
 
Because
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #5 - Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:13pm
 
Gordon wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:09pm:
Because


Surely if you asked nicely you could achieve a peaceful resolution to this problem.

Either that, or blame America.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #6 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:02am
 
issuevoter wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


In the last couple of centuries, soldiers in most Western countries have been seen as heroes when the did something selfless in dangerous situations. If you have some particular person in mind, whose heroism was the number of people he killed, then you should tell us.


Do I have someone in mind?

I sure do. Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr., the soldier who stopped Calley and his monsters after they massacred 500 Vietnamese civilians.

The soldier who was killing civilians women, children, and old people, William Calley didn't serve a day in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.

Quote:
Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) retired as a United States Army Major, and formerly a warrant officer in the 123rd Aviation Battalion, 23rd Infantry Division, who played a major role in ending the My Lai Massacre in Sơn Mỹ Village, Sơn Tịnh District, Quảng Ngăi Province, South Vietnam, on March 16, 1968.

During the My Lai massacre, Thompson and his Hiller OH-23 Raven crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, stopped a number of killings by threatening and blocking officers and enlisted soldiers of Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division. Additionally, Thompson and his crew saved a number of Vietnamese civilians by personally escorting them away from advancing United States Army ground units and assuring their evacuation by air. Thompson reported the atrocities by radio several times while at Sơn Mỹ. Although these reports reached Task Force Barker operational headquarters, nothing was done to stop the massacre. After evacuating a child to a Quảng Ngăi hospital, Thompson angrily reported to his superiors at Task Force Barker headquarters that a massacre was occurring at Sơn Mỹ. Immediately following Thompson's report, Lieutenant Colonel Frank A. Barker ordered all ground units in Sơn Mỹ to cease search and destroy operations in the village.

In 1970, Thompson testified against those responsible for the My Lai Massacre. Twenty-six officers and enlisted soldiers, including William Calley and Ernest Medina, were charged with criminal offenses, but all were either acquitted or pardoned. Thompson was condemned and ostracized by many individuals in the United States military and government, as well as the public, for his role in the investigations and trials concerning the My Lai massacre. As a direct result of what he experienced, Thompson suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder, alcoholism, divorce, and severe nightmare disorder.[citation needed] Despite the adversity he faced, he remained in the United States Army until November 1, 1983, and continued to make a living as a helicopter pilot in the Southeastern United States.

In 1998, 30 years after the massacre, Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.[1] Thompson and Colburn also returned to Sơn Mỹ in 1998, where the massacre took place, to meet with survivors of the massacre. In 1999, Thompson and Colburn received the Peace Abbey Courage of Conscience Award. ...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #7 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:31am
 
The Vietnam war started with the slaughter of innocent South Vietnamese villagers, just across the border, by soldiers from the North, your brave socialist pals
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #8 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:49am
 
A soldier who kills defending his country is a hero.

A soldier who kills when his country is not under threat is doing his job.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #9 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 6:59am
 
Raven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:49am:
A soldier who kills defending his country is a hero.

A soldier who kills when his country is not under threat is doing his job.


Agree.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #10 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:54am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:05pm:
Sounds like the sort of shallow minded luxury you can afford when your security is handed to you on a platter.


Without doubt!
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #11 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:02am:
issuevoter wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 10:08pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


In the last couple of centuries, soldiers in most Western countries have been seen as heroes when the did something selfless in dangerous situations. If you have some particular person in mind, whose heroism was the number of people he killed, then you should tell us.


Do I have someone in mind?

I sure do. Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr., the soldier who stopped Calley and his monsters after they massacred 500 Vietnamese civilians.

The soldier who was killing civilians women, children, and old people, William Calley didn't serve a day in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.

Quote:
Hugh Clowers Thompson Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) retired as a United States Army Major, and formerly a warrant officer in the 123rd Aviation Battalion, 23rd Infantry Division, who played a major role in ending the My Lai Massacre in Sơn Mỹ Village, Sơn Tịnh District, Quảng Ngăi Province, South Vietnam, on March 16, 1968.

During the My Lai massacre, Thompson and his Hiller OH-23 Raven crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, stopped a number of killings by threatening and blocking officers and enlisted soldiers of Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division. Additionally, Thompson and his crew saved a number of Vietnamese civilians by personally escorting them away from advancing United States Army ground units and assuring their evacuation by air. Thompson reported the atrocities by radio several times while at Sơn Mỹ. Although these reports reached Task Force Barker operational headquarters, nothing was done to stop the massacre. After evacuating a child to a Quảng Ngăi hospital, Thompson angrily reported to his superiors at Task Force Barker headquarters that a massacre was occurring at Sơn Mỹ. Immediately following Thompson's report, Lieutenant Colonel Frank A. Barker ordered all ground units in Sơn Mỹ to cease search and destroy operations in the village.

In 1970, Thompson testified against those responsible for the My Lai Massacre. Twenty-six officers and enlisted soldiers, including William Calley and Ernest Medina, were charged with criminal offenses, but all were either acquitted or pardoned. Thompson was condemned and ostracized by many individuals in the United States military and government, as well as the public, for his role in the investigations and trials concerning the My Lai massacre. As a direct result of what he experienced, Thompson suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder, alcoholism, divorce, and severe nightmare disorder.[citation needed] Despite the adversity he faced, he remained in the United States Army until November 1, 1983, and continued to make a living as a helicopter pilot in the Southeastern United States.

In 1998, 30 years after the massacre, Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.[1] Thompson and Colburn also returned to Sơn Mỹ in 1998, where the massacre took place, to meet with survivors of the massacre. In 1999, Thompson and Colburn received the Peace Abbey Courage of Conscience Award. ...


Can soldiers killing people be heroic?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #12 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am:
Can soldiers killing people be heroic?


No!

It's just another day at the office.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #13 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:42am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am:
Can soldiers killing people be heroic?


No!

It's just another day at the office.

The Nazis would still be in power if soldiers didn't kill. Tyrants don't get overthrown with harsh words.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #14 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:39am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:21am:
Can soldiers killing people be heroic?


No!

It's just another day at the office.


It seems to me that the heroism of Thompson depended on the unwillingness of the other American soldiers to shoot him.

Are you suggesting it is only possible to be heroic against enemies who respect the rule of law and thus give you non-violent options?

What if you have to kill some people to save others?

Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #15 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.



   I havent heard of anyone being given a medal just for KILLING someone   

who are you talking about un4?..
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #16 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am:
1. What if you have to kill some people to save others?

2. Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

3. What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?


1. That would require a consideration of the merits of both sides and consideration of the fact that a person isn't killed until they are dead, therefore one cannot presume one person will kill another merely because they are holding a gun. So by the time proper consideration is given the incident may be over.

2. No. Many of them are no better than ISIS which was created out of US mismanagement of Iraq and Saudi radicalization, arming, and funding of Iraqi Sunni extremists. The Saudis have an interest in fomenting chaos in Iraq and Iran and are still doing so. The USA is responsible for the mess in the first place by invading Iraq under false pretexts and then causing Sunnis to be economically and socially ostracized in Iraq.

3. A day at the office. More than 1 million German soldiers died in captivity because of soldiers "office procedures" which included denying shelter, food and medical treatment and in some cases machine gunning them against a wall.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #17 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 12:07pm
 
cods wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am:
I havent heard of anyone being given a medal just for KILLING someone 


Snipers.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #18 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 12:16pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am:
1. What if you have to kill some people to save others?

2. Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

3. What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?


1. That would require a consideration of the merits of both sides and consideration of the fact that a person isn't killed until they are dead, therefore one cannot presume one person will kill another merely because they are holding a gun. So by the time proper consideration is given the incident may be over.

2. No. Many of them are no better than ISIS which was created out of US mismanagement of Iraq and Saudi radicalization, arming, and funding of Iraqi Sunni extremists. The Saudis have an interest in fomenting chaos in Iraq and Iran and are still doing so. The USA is responsible for the mess in the first place by invading Iraq under false pretexts and then causing Sunnis to be economically and socially ostracized in Iraq.

3. A day at the office. More than 1 million German soldiers died in captivity because of soldiers "office procedures" which included denying shelter, food and medical treatment and in some cases machine gunning them against a wall.


What exactly do you think heroism is? Inability to act without absolute certainty?

Why is Thomson a hero without any absolute proof he saved any people, but a soldier who actually has to put his life on the line in a fight to the death is not?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #19 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 12:16pm:
What exactly do you think heroism is? Inability to act without absolute certainty?

Why is Thomson a hero without any absolute proof he saved any people, but a soldier who actually has to put his life on the line in a fight to the death is not?


Heroism is acting for the greater good of humanity in the face of agents of inhumanity.

Thompson saved people at My Lai and caused other similar actions planned by the US military from being implemented.

Thompson was vilified by 'hero' soldiers and 'hero' politicians and received death threats.

Below is one of the My Lai picture.

...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.

Quote:
... After the massacre
Thompson made an official report of the killings and was interviewed by Colonel Oran Henderson, the commander of the 11th Infantry Brigade (the parent organization of the 20th Infantry).[10] Concerned, senior Americal Division officers cancelled similar planned operations by Task Force Barker against other villages (My Lai 5, My Lai 1, etc.) in Quảng Ngăi Province, possibly preventing the additional massacre of further hundreds, if not thousands, of Vietnamese civilians.[2]:219-220

Initially, commanders throughout the American chain of command were successful in covering up the My Lai massacre. Thompson quickly received the Distinguished Flying Cross for his actions at My Lai. The citation for the award fabricated events, for example praising Thompson for taking to a hospital a Vietnamese child "...caught in intense crossfire". It also stated that his "...sound judgment had greatly enhanced Vietnamese–American relations in the operational area." Thompson threw away the citation.[4]:204–205

Thompson continued to fly observation missions in the OH-23 and was hit by enemy fire a total of eight times. In four of those instances, his aircraft was lost.[2]:146 In the last incident, his helicopter was brought down by enemy machine-gun fire, and he broke his back in the resulting crash landing. This ended his combat career in Vietnam. He was evacuated to a hospital in Japan and began a long period of rehabilitation.

When news of the massacre publicly broke, Thompson repeated his account to then-Colonel William Wilson[4]:222–235 and then-Lieutenant General William Peers during their official Pentagon investigations.[11] In late-1969, Thompson was summoned to Washington, DC to appear before a special closed hearing of the House Armed Services Committee. There, he was sharply criticized by congressmen, in particular Chairman Mendel Rivers (D-S.C.), who were anxious to play down allegations of a massacre by American troops.[4]:290–291 Rivers publicly stated that he felt Thompson was the only soldier at My Lai who should be punished (for turning his weapons on fellow American troops) and unsuccessfully attempted to have him court-martialed.[3]

Thompson was vilified by many Americans for his testimony against United States Army personnel. He recounted in a CBS 60 Minutes television program in 2004, "I'd received death threats over the phone...Dead animals on your porch, mutilated animals on your porch some mornings when you get up."[12][5]

After his Vietnam service, Thompson was assigned to Fort Rucker to become an instructor pilot and later received a direct commission, attaining the rank of captain and retired as a major.[13] His other military assignments included Fort Jackson, South Korea, Fort Ord, Fort Hood, and bases in Hawaii. He retired from the army in 1983. ...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #20 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm
 
Here's a question- what would happen to our countries if they were made entirely up of hippies?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #21 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:12pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


True.

So very true.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #22 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:17pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
Here's a question- what would happen to our countries if they were made entirely up of hippies?


Mr. Hammer would lose his virginity to a homosexual hippy.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #23 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:12pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


True.

So very true.

I suggest you look up vc winners and their actions pecca. Many were given to men who died so their mates wouldn't. Some were given to medics, some to men who saved fellow wounded soldiers. The VC just isn't about killing the enemy. It's about while facing the high chance of death doing extraordinary  actions.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #24 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:21pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:17pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
Here's a question- what would happen to our countries if they were made entirely up of hippies?


Mr. Hammer would lose his virginity to a homosexual hippy.

And you'd beg and grovel for survival.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #25 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm
 
Quote:
Thompson saved people at My Lai


Not by your own standard of evidence.

Quote:
Heroism is acting for the greater good of humanity in the face of agents of inhumanity.


And fighting Nazis and IS is not doing this?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #26 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
It's about while facing the high chance of death doing extraordinary  actions.


So you contend that extraordinary actions of humanity while not facing death don't count as heroism?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #27 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:26pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
It's about while facing the high chance of death doing extraordinary  actions.


So you contend that extraordinary actions of humanity while not facing death don't count as heroism?


The only one making absurd generalisations is you.

Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Obviously, putting your own life at risk takes a lot more bravery than dobbing people in.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #28 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:27pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
It's about while facing the high chance of death doing extraordinary  actions.


So you contend that extraordinary actions of humanity while not facing death don't count as heroism?

in war it isn't. the vc is a military award. do-gooders get their own rewards. You are comparing chalk and cheese.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #29 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:29pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:12pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


True.

So very true.

I suggest you look up vc winners and their actions pecca. Many were given to men who died so their mates wouldn't. Some were given to medics, some to men who saved fellow wounded soldiers. The VC just isn't about killing the enemy. It's about while facing the high chance of death doing extraordinary  actions.


I never mentioned the VC.

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #30 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:31pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:29pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:12pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.


True.

So very true.

I suggest you look up vc winners and their actions pecca. Many were given to men who died so their mates wouldn't. Some were given to medics, some to men who saved fellow wounded soldiers. The VC just isn't about killing the enemy. It's about while facing the high chance of death doing extraordinary  actions.


I never mentioned the VC.

well you don't what this topic spawned from then, do you?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #31 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
Not by your own standard of evidence.


If you have evidence that he saved no lives please present it.

Evidently Freediver believes that only killers can be heroes.

...

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-...

Quote:
Everybody's heard of the My Lai massacre — March 16, 1968, 50 years ago today — but not many know about the man who stopped it: Hugh Thompson, an Army helicopter pilot. When he arrived, American soldiers had already killed 504 Vietnamese civilians (that's the Vietnamese count; the U.S. Army said 347). They were going to kill more, but they didn't — because of what Thompson did.

I met Thompson in 2000 and interviewed him for my radio program on KPFK in Los Angeles. He told the story of what happened that day, when he and his two-man crew flew over My Lai, in support of troops who were looking for Viet Cong fighters.

"We started noticing these large numbers of bodies everywhere," he told me, "people on the road dead, wounded. And just sitting there saying, 'God, how'd this happen? What's going on?' And we started thinking what might have happened, but you didn't want to accept that thought — because if you accepted it, that means your own fellow Americans, people you were there to protect, were doing something very evil."

Who were the people lying in the roads and in the ditch, wounded and killed?

"They were not combatants. They were old women, old men, children, kids, babies."

Then Thompson and his crew chief, Glenn Andreotta, and his gunner, Lawrence Colburn, "saw some civilians hiding in a bunker, cowering, looking out the door. Saw some advancing Americans coming that way. I just figured it was time to do something, to not let these people get killed. Landed the aircraft in between the Americans and the Vietnamese, told my crew chief and gunner to cover me, got out of the aircraft, went over to the American side."

We know that Americans committed a massacre 50 years ago today; and we also know that an American stopped it.

Share quote & link

What happened next was one of the most remarkable events of the entire war, and perhaps unique: Thompson told the American troops that, if they opened fire on the Vietnamese civilians in the bunker, he and his crew would open fire on them.

"You risked your lives," I said, "to protect those Vietnamese civilians."

"Well, it didn't come to that," he replied. "I thank God to this day that everybody did stay cool and nobody opened up. ... It was time to stop it, and I figured, at that point, that was the only way the madness, or whatever you want to call it, could be stopped."

Back at their base he filed a complaint about the killing of civilians that he had witnessed. The Army covered it up. But eventually the journalist Seymour Hersh found out about the massacre, and his report made it worldwide news and a turning point in the war. Afterwards Thompson testified at the trial of Lt. William Calley, the commanding officer during the massacre.

Then came the backlash. Calley had many supporters, who condemned and harassed Thompson. He didn’t have much support — for decades. It took the Army 30 years, but in 1998, they finally acknowledged that Thompson had done something good. They awarded him the Soldier's Medal for “heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy.”

On the 30th anniversary of the massacre, Thompson went back to My Lai and met some of the people whose lives he had saved. "There were real good highs," he told me, "and very low lows. One of the ladies that we had helped out that day came up to me and asked, 'Why didn't the people who committed these acts come back with you?' And I was just devastated. And then she finished her sentence: she said, 'So we could forgive them.' I'm not man enough to do that. I'm sorry. I wish I was, but I won't lie to anybody. I'm not that much of a man."

And what were the highs?

"I always questioned, in my mind, did anybody know we all aren't like that? Did they know that somebody tried to help? And yes, they did know that. That aspect of it made me feel real good."

Today there's a little museum in My Lai, where Thompson is honored, and which displays a list of the names and ages of people killed that day. Trent Angers, Thompson's biographer and friend, analyzed the list and found about 50 there who were 3 years old or younger. He found 69 between the ages of 4 and 7, and 91 between the ages of 8 and 12.

Nick Turse investigated violence in Vietnam against noncombatants for his book “Kill Anything that Moves.” He concluded — after a decade of research in Pentagon archives and more than 100 interviews with American veterans and Vietnamese survivors — that Americans killing civilians in Vietnam was “pervasive and systematic.” One soldier told him there had been "a My Lai a month."

We know that Americans committed a massacre 50 years ago today; and we also know that an American stopped it. Hugh Thompson died in 2006, when he was only 62. I wish we could have done more to thank him.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #32 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:44pm
 
Hugh Thompson was awarded a medal for what he did actually. Look it up.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #33 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:49pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:44pm:
Hugh Thompson was awarded a medal for what he did actually. Look it up.


Lt. William Calley was awarded the Freediver medal.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #34 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:53pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:49pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:44pm:
Hugh Thompson was awarded a medal for what he did actually. Look it up.


Lt. William Calley was awarded the Freediver medal.

wiki- Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.


So it was recognised  hey?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #35 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:20pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:36pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm:
Not by your own standard of evidence.


If you have evidence that he saved no lives please present it.



And if you have any evidence he did save lives, please present it. Remember, this is your own words:

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am:
1. What if you have to kill some people to save others?

2. Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

3. What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?


1. That would require a consideration of the merits of both sides and consideration of the fact that a person isn't killed until they are dead, therefore one cannot presume one person will kill another merely because they are holding a gun. So by the time proper consideration is given the incident may be over.

2. No. Many of them are no better than ISIS which was created out of US mismanagement of Iraq and Saudi radicalization, arming, and funding of Iraqi Sunni extremists. The Saudis have an interest in fomenting chaos in Iraq and Iran and are still doing so. The USA is responsible for the mess in the first place by invading Iraq under false pretexts and then causing Sunnis to be economically and socially ostracized in Iraq.

3. A day at the office. More than 1 million German soldiers died in captivity because of soldiers "office procedures" which included denying shelter, food and medical treatment and in some cases machine gunning them against a wall.

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #36 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:27pm
 
Perhaps the Freediver medal can be awarded to William Calley and other criminals and cowards in military uniform.

Freediver is denying that Hugh Thompson saved Vietnamese from massacres. That's a cowardly attack on a real hero.

"Everybody's heard of the My Lai massacre — March 16, 1968, 50 years ago today — but not many know about the man who stopped it: Hugh Thompson, an Army helicopter pilot. When he arrived, American soldiers had already killed 504 Vietnamese civilians (that's the Vietnamese count; the U.S. Army said 347). They were going to kill more, but they didn't — because of what Thompson did."

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-wiener-my-lai-hugh-thompson-20180316-...

Quote:
... Today there's a little museum in My Lai, where Thompson is honored, and which displays a list of the names and ages of people killed that day. Trent Angers, Thompson's biographer and friend, analyzed the list and found about 50 there who were 3 years old or younger. He found 69 between the ages of 4 and 7, and 91 between the ages of 8 and 12.

Nick Turse investigated violence in Vietnam against noncombatants for his book “Kill Anything that Moves.” He concluded — after a decade of research in Pentagon archives and more than 100 interviews with American veterans and Vietnamese survivors — that Americans killing civilians in Vietnam was “pervasive and systematic.” One soldier told him there had been "a My Lai a month."

We know that Americans committed a massacre 50 years ago today; and we also know that an American stopped it. Hugh Thompson died in 2006, when he was only 62. I wish we could have done more to thank him. ...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #37 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:42pm
 
Soldiers from Western countries commit atrocities and it's often not prosecuted;  but it's not part of our military strategy.

The Nth Vietnamese and VC however,  mass execution orders cane from the top.

The executions following the battle of Hue nunbered nearly 5k civilians, women,  children,  elderly
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #38 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:03pm
 
Gordon wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 3:42pm:
Soldiers from Western countries commit atrocities and it's often not prosecuted;  but it's not part of our military strategy.

The Nth Vietnamese and VC however,  mass execution orders cane from the top.

The executions following the battle of Hue numbered nearly 5k civilians, women,  children,  elderly 


Americans killed 3 million Asians during the Vietnam war.

You don't kill that many people by random acts of individuals. Is Gordon seeking prequalification for the Freediver medal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties

Quote:
... In 1995, the Vietnamese government released its estimate of war deaths for the more lengthy period of 1955–75. PAVN and VC deaths were reported as 1.1 million and civilian deaths of Vietnamese on both sides totaled 2.0 million. These estimates probably include deaths of Vietnamese soldiers in Laos and Cambodia, but do not include deaths of South Vietnamese and allied soldiers which would add nearly 300,000 for a grand total of 3.4 million military and civilian dead.[5]

A 2008 study by the BMJ (formerly British Medical Journal) came up with a higher toll of 3,812,000 dead in Vietnam between 1955–2002. For the period of the Vietnam War the totals are 1,310,000 between 1955 and 1964, 1,700,000 between 1965–74 and 810,000 between 1975 and 1984. (The estimates for 1955–64 are much higher than other estimates). The sum of those totals is 3,091,000 war deaths between 1955–75.[4] ...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #39 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:09pm
 
What are your thoughts on the deaths in Vietnam during the Japanese occupation?  Oh probably none because you only worry when whities are responsible.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #40 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:28pm
 
Gordon wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
What are your thoughts on the deaths in Vietnam during the Japanese occupation?  Oh probably none because you only worry when whities are responsible.


Gordon's Freediver medal does not give him the right to obfuscate massacres.

What does Freediver medallist Gordon think about the 1+ million WW2 German POWs in allied hands who died due to lack of shelter, lack of food, lack of medical attention, and machine-gunning?

Here is your award Gordon.

...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #41 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm
 
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #42 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.


Is that a former marine living creature in your arms that was killed for your enjoyment?

Are you seeking another Freediver medal?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #43 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.


Is your argument rally that stupid Unforgiven?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #44 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.


Is your argument rally that stupid Unforgiven?


You can't be a hero simply by killing someone.

You can be a hero by saving people from being killed.

You can qualify for the Freediver medal by committing atrocities.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #45 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 5:57pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.


Is your argument rally that stupid Unforgiven?


You can't be a hero simply by killing someone.

You can be a hero by saving people from being killed.

You can qualify for the Freediver medal by committing atrocities.


This is your position:

Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Are you backpedaling?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #46 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 6:42pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 11:38am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:51am:
1. What if you have to kill some people to save others?

2. Would you describe the people fighting IS in Iraq as heroes?

3. What about the soldiers who fought the Nazis?


1. That would require a consideration of the merits of both sides and consideration of the fact that a person isn't killed until they are dead, therefore one cannot presume one person will kill another merely because they are holding a gun. So by the time proper consideration is given the incident may be over.

2. No. Many of them are no better than ISIS which was created out of US mismanagement of Iraq and Saudi radicalization, arming, and funding of Iraqi Sunni extremists. The Saudis have an interest in fomenting chaos in Iraq and Iran and are still doing so. The USA is responsible for the mess in the first place by invading Iraq under false pretexts and then causing Sunnis to be economically and socially ostracized in Iraq.

3. A day at the office. More than 1 million German soldiers died in captivity because of soldiers "office procedures" which included denying shelter, food and medical treatment and in some cases machine gunning them against a wall.


And they hadn't already dished out that sort of treatment of course?  Roll Eyes

Just to one demographic 6 million dead.

You're barking up the wrong tree with your thinly guised racism.


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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #47 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 6:59pm
 
Grubberments kill people on a daily basis
Even in Australia.
Not with guns, but with;
Bad policy causing suicide.
Feeding their mates and multinationals policies to cause death by using toxic materials or simply keeping secrets of their toxicity.
Policies aimed at knocking off the aged population through starvation or being unable to heat or cool their homes.
Policies destroying hospitals effectiveness, old people homes and allowing medical funds to fleece people until they die.

There are many others, but there is no denying that grubberments of the world kill many more than just plain soldiers do.

It's the grubberments that need to be put against the wall, not the soldiers.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #48 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:12pm
 
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Depends on who they kill.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #49 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:33pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm:
You can qualify for the Freediver medal by committing atrocities.
You can qualify for the Un4 medal by being an apologist for atrocities.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #50 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:02pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.

So if someone were to try and kill your wife would you be a hero to save her or just sit and watch her die?


What about your daughter or son or anyone you call family?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #51 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:03pm
 
salad in wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 7:12pm:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Depends on who they kill.

It's a complicated story but yes!
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #52 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 9:28pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 8:02pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 10th, 2018 at 9:43pm:
Why do people who kill other people for a living get labeled war hero?

I challenge the concept that killing people is heroic.

Saving people from being killed is heroic.

Rescuing people in danger or mortal danger is heroic.

Killing people is not heroic.

Soldiers cannot be heroic just by killing people.

So if someone were to try and kill your wife would you be a hero to save her or just sit and watch her die?


What about your daughter or son or anyone you call family?


You are not automatically a hero by killing somebody. They might also have had a just cause or been seeking revenge for their own family's deaths.

The situation you pose is very hypothetical. It might be more rational to save your family by abstaining from alcohol, especially while driving. That would be heroic because you are sacrificing something.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #53 - Aug 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:58pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.


Is your argument rally that stupid Unforgiven?


You can't be a hero simply by killing someone.

You can be a hero by saving people from being killed.

You can qualify for the Freediver medal by committing atrocities.


This is your position:

Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Are you backpedaling?


Unforgiven? You said you stood by this statement, but everything else you say is an attempt to distance yourself from it. Where do you stand?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #54 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:34pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 4:30pm:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.


Is that a former marine living creature in your arms ?


What sound does a jellyfish make?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #55 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm:
Unforgiven? You said you stood by this statement, but everything else you say is an attempt to distance yourself from it. Where do you stand?


You are devious and insidious in your manner and your debating style.

It's no wonder you rejoice in the death of Muslims and Arab civilians in general.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #56 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 8:12am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm:
Unforgiven? You said you stood by this statement, but everything else you say is an attempt to distance yourself from it. Where do you stand?


You are devious and insidious in your manner and your debating style.

It's no wonder you rejoice in the death of Muslims and Arab civilians in general.



You know, you pathetic bag of crap, you enjoy the privilege of being able to post your twisted opinions because brave men fought to allow you that privilege, some giving their lives. Now bugger off and crawl back under that rock you crawled out from under, you disgusting little turd. 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #57 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:05am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm:
Unforgiven? You said you stood by this statement, but everything else you say is an attempt to distance yourself from it. Where do you stand?


You are devious and insidious in your manner and your debating style.

It's no wonder you rejoice in the death of Muslims and Arab civilians in general.


Grin It's your own thread title Unforgiven. Do you stand by it or not?

Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #58 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am
 
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM
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A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #59 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am
 
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #60 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am
 
Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #61 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am:
Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven?


No!

...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #62 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:16am
 
People killing soldiers if fine, though.......

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #63 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:20am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am:
Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven?


No!

https://slideplayer.com/slide/8061311/25/images/4/Quotes+from+My+Lai.jpg


Is this a fair summary of your argument?

Quote:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #64 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:25am
 
Thompson is a hero because he stopped a military atrocity by the USA and caused the cancellation of similar atrocities that were planned by inhuman soldiers.

Freediver understands atrocities because he enjoys torturing and killing marine life as a 'leisure' activity.

Humanity begins at home.

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am:
Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven?


No!

https://slideplayer.com/slide/8061311/25/images/4/Quotes+from+My+Lai.jpg


Is this a fair summary of your argument?

Quote:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #65 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:28am
 
Here's a very common opinion. Soldiers are arrogant because many people in society call them heroes just because they wear a uniform.

https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/6pqg3i/being_in_the_military_...

Quote:
Being In The Military Doesn't Make You A Hero
I know this opinion has been stated but whatever. I'm absolutely annoyed by military veterans or current soldiers that have this arrogance about them because they decided to sign up for the military. Good the bugger for you. Want a cookie? That was your choice. Just because I and others disagree with the military and soldiers doesn't make us pussies or that we wouldn't last in boot camp. Many of these people literally don't think any other profession is as good as being a soldier and I had someone say that they joined to change things from the inside. How and you're taking orders? I seriously doubt this person has any pull to change poo. The reverence to the military in the US bothers me. It reminds me of a more buggered up dynamic of a doctor/nurse (many times nurses are underappreciated and doctors overhyped. But that's an opinion for another day).
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #66 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:31pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:25am:
Thompson is a hero because he stopped a military atrocity by the USA and caused the cancellation of similar atrocities that were planned by inhuman soldiers.

Freediver understands atrocities because he enjoys torturing and killing marine life as a 'leisure' activity.

Humanity begins at home.

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am:
Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven?


No!

https://slideplayer.com/slide/8061311/25/images/4/Quotes+from+My+Lai.jpg


Is this a fair summary of your argument?

Quote:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.



I am not talking about why Thomson is a hero. I am talking about why killing people precludes being a hero. The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be a hero, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry.

Is this a fair summary of your argument?

So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #67 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:35pm
 
Freediver attempts to pervert everything he touches.

Freediver's own lack of humanity is exemplified by his enjoyment of torturing and killing marine life.

Reflect on this.

...

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:31pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:25am:
Thompson is a hero because he stopped a military atrocity by the USA and caused the cancellation of similar atrocities that were planned by inhuman soldiers.

Freediver understands atrocities because he enjoys torturing and killing marine life as a 'leisure' activity.

Humanity begins at home.

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am:
Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven?


No!

https://slideplayer.com/slide/8061311/25/images/4/Quotes+from+My+Lai.jpg


Is this a fair summary of your argument?

Quote:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.



I am not talking about why Thomson is a hero. I am talking about why killing people precludes being a hero. The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be a hero, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry.

Is this a fair summary of your argument?

So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.

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« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm by Unforgiven »  

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #68 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm
 
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #69 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.
Pretty much what the whole board is like now, rational, semi intelligent debate is impossible. You shouldnt be surprised. On the plus side the post count is huge, Peccas doing his job also with 30 posts a day about child rape inference.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #70 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.


Freediver is perverting the string as he always does.

Exposing Freediver's enjoyment of killing and torturing marine life is fair argument because it reflects Freediver's perverted state of mind.

In regard to the quote below, soldiers are disposable and are fired from their jobs when they have been so ruthless that there is no-one left to kill.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
A Job is a Job Soldiers are like paper towels. They just sit there maintaining a minimal value until something spills. Milk on the counter top, my paper towel is retrieved to do what it's supposed to do. When it serves its purpose, another towel takes its place on "stand-by", so to speak.

Lot's of soldiers who are designated "heroic" say things like "I just did what I had to do". That's not humility; that's the absolute truth. They are put into situations that decay into impossible, then they do what they have to do. The dead ones are dead, and the survivors get "honor", which cannot even be redeemed for a sandwich.

Suckers one and all.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #71 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.


What sound does a jellyfish make?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #72 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:52pm
 
Rhino wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.
Pretty much what the whole board is like now, rational, semi intelligent debate is impossible. You shouldnt be surprised.


Of course. FD started it. He knows that.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #73 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:52pm:
Rhino wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.
Pretty much what the whole board is like now, rational, semi intelligent debate is impossible. You shouldnt be surprised.


Of course. FD started it. He knows that.


Freediver is a bulletin board pervert. He perverts and diverts arguments towards the direction his master's command.

Freediver is a paid shill and should precede all his postings with the confession of who pays his slimebag salary.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #74 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:59pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:52pm:
Rhino wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.
Pretty much what the whole board is like now, rational, semi intelligent debate is impossible. You shouldnt be surprised.


Of course. FD started it. He knows that.


Freediver is a bulletin board pervert. He perverts and diverts arguments towards the direction his master's command.

Freediver is a paid shill and should precede all his postings with the confession of who pays his slimebag salary.


Ask him if he likes telling fibs. He never answers that one.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #75 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:02pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:59pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:52pm:
Rhino wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.
Pretty much what the whole board is like now, rational, semi intelligent debate is impossible. You shouldnt be surprised.


Of course. FD started it. He knows that.


Freediver is a bulletin board pervert. He perverts and diverts arguments towards the direction his master's command.

Freediver is a paid shill and should precede all his postings with the confession of who pays his slimebag salary.


Ask him if he likes telling fibs. He never answers that one.


He probably can't determine that because fibbing comes so natural to Freediver.

What sort of person derives enjoyment from torturing and butchering marine life?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #76 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm
 
Do prawns feel pain?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #77 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:09pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
Do prawns feel pain?


Does Freediver fart and urinate in the sea?

Do Freedivers feel pain when karma strikes and a shark's jaws close around them? Or, are they exhilarated by the pain and achieve orgasm from their impending death?
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« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:24pm by Unforgiven »  

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #78 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:11pm
 
The truth begins to emerge despite Freediver's efforts to pervert the arguments.

"A soldier is an amoral agent to those nationalistic objectives, however conceived. A career soldier doesn't care about right and wrong, only about national obedience. Otherwise they would be a poor soldier and a good human being."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
It is never heroic to suspend individual moral responsibility Nation States can have myriad aims and ambitions. They can be controlled by charisnatic dictators, oligarchs, hegemony, democracy, capitalist systems, systems of PR etc. They could be controlled by any ambition, political objective or motivation for power or resource. A soldier is an amoral agent to those nationalistic objectives, however conceived. A career soldier doesn't care about right and wrong, only about national obedience. Otherwise they would be a poor soldier and a good human being.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #79 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm
 
I would love to see Freediver and his ilk volunteer for military service either in the Australian military or the military of Freediver's paymasters.

So far Freediver's history only includes killing harmless defenseless creatures. It would be interesting to see how Freediver conducts himself against opponents that can attack him with equal force, or defend themselves with equal force.

It is disgraceful that many people call anyone in military uniform a hero. It devalues the honor of true heroes.

You cannot be a hero just by wearing a military uniform.

"And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
No profession is heroic by its own accord No value can be determined by an action. Many guys went to Vietnam believing the lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Were they heros? Some of them, but not because they were soldiers. Soldier X was a hero because he risked his life to save his maimed buddy out of compassion. But what if he did it because he wanted the fame of being a hero-then he's not a hero. What if he did it because he had an affair with the guy's wife and he knows the mistress/adulteress will out him if his buddy dies? Then it was selfish and not heroic. Action determines nothing, only intent can tell us something like that.

And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do. We told a bunch of lies, broke into someone's house, killed a bunch of their kids, and then moved in pretending it was our house. That's not a hero, that's an opportunist at best, and duplicitous scum at worst. Some are heros, most are common. Just like any job. Bringing value to your world is what matters, sometimes soldiers do that, but most of the time, most of them perpetuate only the worst qualities a human being has to offer this world. Even if they simply just go and do their job-if its an evil war, there is nothing impressive about being a soldier in it. It is what it is, and lying to each other calling it 'liberation' just adds insult to the injury. Liberation would be if some group pushed us out of Iraq, giving the home back to its owner-you know, like in WWII we and the Russians and others liberated various parts of Europe from German occupation. America is in North America. Iraq is part of ASIA, ie were not even in the same continent so its an occupation, not a liberation. Further, it was also America's fault that Hussien murdered 50,000 Iraqis. That was Bush Sr. Who said we'd back them if they rose up-but we never showed up, so they died.... Ya, America is so great, so heroic.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #80 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:54pm
 
FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.

Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist.

Maybe he could join the army instead.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #81 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:01pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.

Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist.

Maybe he could join the army instead.


Freediver couldn't do the drive alone. He's already perverted himself and he would need another victim to pervert.

I would pay Freediver's membership fees if he was joining the army of one-legged men due to having performed a heroic act to save Arabic babies being bashed to death by psychopathic soldiers and losing a limb.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #82 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:10pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
I would love to see Freediver and his ilk volunteer for military service either in the Australian military or the military of Freediver's paymasters.

So far Freediver's history only includes killing harmless defenseless creatures. It would be interesting to see how Freediver conducts himself against opponents that can attack him with equal force, or defend themselves with equal force.

It is disgraceful that many people call anyone in military uniform a hero. It devalues the honor of true heroes.

You cannot be a hero just by wearing a military uniform.

"And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
No profession is heroic by its own accord No value can be determined by an action. Many guys went to Vietnam believing the lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Were they heros? Some of them, but not because they were soldiers. Soldier X was a hero because he risked his life to save his maimed buddy out of compassion. But what if he did it because he wanted the fame of being a hero-then he's not a hero. What if he did it because he had an affair with the guy's wife and he knows the mistress/adulteress will out him if his buddy dies? Then it was selfish and not heroic. Action determines nothing, only intent can tell us something like that.

And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do. We told a bunch of lies, broke into someone's house, killed a bunch of their kids, and then moved in pretending it was our house. That's not a hero, that's an opportunist at best, and duplicitous scum at worst. Some are heros, most are common. Just like any job. Bringing value to your world is what matters, sometimes soldiers do that, but most of the time, most of them perpetuate only the worst qualities a human being has to offer this world. Even if they simply just go and do their job-if its an evil war, there is nothing impressive about being a soldier in it. It is what it is, and lying to each other calling it 'liberation' just adds insult to the injury. Liberation would be if some group pushed us out of Iraq, giving the home back to its owner-you know, like in WWII we and the Russians and others liberated various parts of Europe from German occupation. America is in North America. Iraq is part of ASIA, ie were not even in the same continent so its an occupation, not a liberation. Further, it was also America's fault that Hussien murdered 50,000 Iraqis. That was Bush Sr. Who said we'd back them if they rose up-but we never showed up, so they died.... Ya, America is so great, so heroic.

Have you ever heard of sharks?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #83 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:11pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.

Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist.

Maybe he could join the army instead.

Unforgiven hasn't heard of sharks so watch your step missy!

Cheesy
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Karnal
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #84 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:19pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:01pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:54pm:
FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.

Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist.

Maybe he could join the army instead.


Freediver couldn't do the drive alone. He's already perverted himself and he would need another victim to pervert.

I would pay Freediver's membership fees if he was joining the army of one-legged men due to having performed a heroic act to save Arabic babies being bashed to death by psychopathic soldiers and losing a limb.


Me too, Forgiven. Let's put FD's membership fees into Ozpolitic donations. FD can report back on how many Muslim and apologist children he's saved.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #85 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:36pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM



The troll calls me out...

On his computer of course, he would be far too cowardly in real life to even look at me.

Have you ever spoken out against a man?
Not one of your pooftah partners, but a real live man who woukd deck you?

Of course not
You are a cowardly troll
Big on words on a computer, but never in real life.

Sad little troll
Failure in real life
Failure in forums
Possibly, probably not even real
Just another sock

Call me out.......I fart in your general direction, ha ha ha ha ha ha
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I HAVE A DREAM
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A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #86 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:45pm
 
Valkie, you are a coward because if you believed everything you write you would already be in the military killing people.

You are a disgusting, cowardly, example of inhuman waste. I have flushed things with more morals than Valkie. I wish you did have the guts to join the military and volunteer for conflicts.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
Soldiers (Typically) Are Scum Soldiers: Young men and women hired to potentially throw their lives away and kill wantonly in the name of psychopathic, money-lusting politicians who don't even know their names or stories and couldn't care less anyway. Has some good come from war? Yes. A small sum. And there probably are some soldiers who possess genuine humanity, but look at the situation: you voluntarily sign up for several weeks of survival training and lessons on how to shoot, stab, bludgeon, and bomb people to death with the intention of doing this for a living. That's hardly heroic, and I would never bestow the title of "hero" to anyone who would choose this for themselves.



Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:36pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM



The troll calls me out...

On his computer of course, he would be far too cowardly in real life to even look at me.

Have you ever spoken out against a man?
Not one of your pooftah partners, but a real live man who woukd deck you?

Of course not
You are a cowardly troll
Big on words on a computer, but never in real life.

Sad little troll
Failure in real life
Failure in forums
Possibly, probably not even real
Just another sock

Call me out.......I fart in your general direction, ha ha ha ha ha ha

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #87 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:15pm
 
Valkie has left for the local military recruitment office? Fat chance.

They take psychopaths, but not mentally crippled psychopaths.

...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #88 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:40pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:47pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.


Freediver is perverting the string as he always does.

Exposing Freediver's enjoyment of killing and torturing marine life is fair argument because it reflects Freediver's perverted state of mind.

In regard to the quote below, soldiers are disposable and are fired from their jobs when they have been so ruthless that there is no-one left to kill.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
A Job is a Job Soldiers are like paper towels. They just sit there maintaining a minimal value until something spills. Milk on the counter top, my paper towel is retrieved to do what it's supposed to do. When it serves its purpose, another towel takes its place on "stand-by", so to speak.

Lot's of soldiers who are designated "heroic" say things like "I just did what I had to do". That's not humility; that's the absolute truth. They are put into situations that decay into impossible, then they do what they have to do. The dead ones are dead, and the survivors get "honor", which cannot even be redeemed for a sandwich.

Suckers one and all.


Are you openly running away from your own words now? Why is asking abut your own thread title "perverting the string"?

The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be considered a hero by you, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry.

Is this a fair summary of your argument?

So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #89 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 4:40pm:
Are you openly running away from your own words now? Why is asking abut your own thread title "perverting the string"?


Because it is FreeDiver's usual strategy for perverting discussions by obfuscation and diversion to issues of Freediver's choice.

Freediver's lack of humanity and morals is evidenced by his own 'sport' of killing marine creatures for enjoyment.

Freediver needs to demonstrate to his paymasters that he is earning his money.

Here is a contrary opinion to Freediver from somebody Freediver understands.

...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #90 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:25pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 1:10am:
freediver wrote on Aug 11th, 2018 at 10:14pm:
Unforgiven? You said you stood by this statement, but everything else you say is an attempt to distance yourself from it. Where do you stand?


You are devious and insidious in your manner and your debating style.

It's no wonder you rejoice in the death of Muslims and Arab civilians in general.


What a load of rubbish.

What's your problem ... does he have you there?

As far as being devious & insidious ... you take the cake.... no you take the whole bakery.  Angry you putz.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #91 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:28pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM




I call you out as fraud .... as a human being.  Roll Eyes
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #92 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:31pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:35pm:
Freediver attempts to pervert everything he touches.

Freediver's own lack of humanity is exemplified by his enjoyment of torturing and killing marine life.

Reflect on this.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1c/72/6c/1c726ce52c2d5caff1fed82befe0089a--children-pl...

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:31pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:25am:
Thompson is a hero because he stopped a military atrocity by the USA and caused the cancellation of similar atrocities that were planned by inhuman soldiers.

Freediver understands atrocities because he enjoys torturing and killing marine life as a 'leisure' activity.

Humanity begins at home.

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:13am:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:11am:
Quote:
Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic


Would you agree that this is a silly thing to say Unforgiven?


No!

https://slideplayer.com/slide/8061311/25/images/4/Quotes+from+My+Lai.jpg


Is this a fair summary of your argument?

Quote:
So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.



I am not talking about why Thomson is a hero. I am talking about why killing people precludes being a hero. The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be a hero, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry.

Is this a fair summary of your argument?

So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.



FD has you rattled ... you pathetic racist & apologist.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #93 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:32pm
 
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:48pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.


What sound does a jellyfish make?


The sound you hear when you're typing in this forum.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #94 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:34pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:57pm:
Karnal wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:52pm:
Rhino wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.
Pretty much what the whole board is like now, rational, semi intelligent debate is impossible. You shouldnt be surprised.


Of course. FD started it. He knows that.


Freediver is a bulletin board pervert. He perverts and diverts arguments towards the direction his master's command.

Freediver is a paid shill and should precede all his postings with the confession of who pays his slimebag salary.


As you do you hypocrite.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #95 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:36pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 2:25pm:
I would love to see Freediver and his ilk volunteer for military service either in the Australian military or the military of Freediver's paymasters.

So far Freediver's history only includes killing harmless defenseless creatures. It would be interesting to see how Freediver conducts himself against opponents that can attack him with equal force, or defend themselves with equal force.

It is disgraceful that many people call anyone in military uniform a hero. It devalues the honor of true heroes.

You cannot be a hero just by wearing a military uniform.

"And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
No profession is heroic by its own accord No value can be determined by an action. Many guys went to Vietnam believing the lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Were they heros? Some of them, but not because they were soldiers. Soldier X was a hero because he risked his life to save his maimed buddy out of compassion. But what if he did it because he wanted the fame of being a hero-then he's not a hero. What if he did it because he had an affair with the guy's wife and he knows the mistress/adulteress will out him if his buddy dies? Then it was selfish and not heroic. Action determines nothing, only intent can tell us something like that.

And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do. We told a bunch of lies, broke into someone's house, killed a bunch of their kids, and then moved in pretending it was our house. That's not a hero, that's an opportunist at best, and duplicitous scum at worst. Some are heros, most are common. Just like any job. Bringing value to your world is what matters, sometimes soldiers do that, but most of the time, most of them perpetuate only the worst qualities a human being has to offer this world. Even if they simply just go and do their job-if its an evil war, there is nothing impressive about being a soldier in it. It is what it is, and lying to each other calling it 'liberation' just adds insult to the injury. Liberation would be if some group pushed us out of Iraq, giving the home back to its owner-you know, like in WWII we and the Russians and others liberated various parts of Europe from German occupation. America is in North America. Iraq is part of ASIA, ie were not even in the same continent so its an occupation, not a liberation. Further, it was also America's fault that Hussien murdered 50,000 Iraqis. That was Bush Sr. Who said we'd back them if they rose up-but we never showed up, so they died.... Ya, America is so great, so heroic.


You're not part of "us".
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #96 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:39pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:45pm:
Valkie, you are a coward because if you believed everything you write you would already be in the military killing people.

You are a disgusting, cowardly, example of inhuman waste. I have flushed things with more morals than Valkie. I wish you did have the guts to join the military and volunteer for conflicts.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:
Soldiers (Typically) Are Scum Soldiers: Young men and women hired to potentially throw their lives away and kill wantonly in the name of psychopathic, money-lusting politicians who don't even know their names or stories and couldn't care less anyway. Has some good come from war? Yes. A small sum. And there probably are some soldiers who possess genuine humanity, but look at the situation: you voluntarily sign up for several weeks of survival training and lessons on how to shoot, stab, bludgeon, and bomb people to death with the intention of doing this for a living. That's hardly heroic, and I would never bestow the title of "hero" to anyone who would choose this for themselves.



Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 3:36pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM



The troll calls me out...

On his computer of course, he would be far too cowardly in real life to even look at me.

Have you ever spoken out against a man?
Not one of your pooftah partners, but a real live man who woukd deck you?

Of course not
You are a cowardly troll
Big on words on a computer, but never in real life.

Sad little troll
Failure in real life
Failure in forums
Possibly, probably not even real
Just another sock

Call me out.......I fart in your general direction, ha ha ha ha ha ha



The same wish is applied to you bucket mouth.
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Politicians are like nappies; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.
The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #97 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:47pm
 
Do you remember what your thread title was Unforgiven?

The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be considered a hero by you, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry.

Is this a fair summary of your argument?

So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #98 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:10pm
 
Gnads wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:28pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM




I call you out as fraud .... as a human being.  Roll Eyes


Fair enough
Call me what you like, but at least I'm not a sock.

I'm as human as the next guy, I just believe that it's fight or be fodder.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #99 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:12pm
 
You silly bugger that was directed at Un4given.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #100 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:20pm
 
Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:10pm:
Gnads wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:28pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM




I call you out as fraud .... as a human being.  Roll Eyes


Fair enough
Call me what you like, but at least I'm not a sock.

I'm as human as the next guy, I just believe that it's fight or be fodder.


Which one's the sock, Matty?

Xeej?
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Valkie
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #101 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:20pm
 
Gnads wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
You silly bugger that was directed at Un4given.


In that case
I unreservidly apologise and beg your forgiveness

I've had a long day
I put up a fence today 60 metres
Lots of holes through clay
Damn I'm sore.

Again apologies.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #102 - Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:00pm
 
The three stooges. Gnads, Valkie and Freediver engaged in a three-loser game of mental ping pong.

I denounce you all as cowards because you espouse military atrocities yet are too cowardly to join the military.

You are all lip service patriots playing pat-a-cake with each other while cheering and rejoicing in the death of innocent civilians.

Freediver's actions are particularly egregious as he tortures and kills marine animals for his enjoyment while fearing to face men and creatures that can defend themselves.

Gnads needs to remove his butt plug and shove it down his throat.

Please consider.

...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #103 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:50am
 
It's not over until The Grappler gripes.

In WW2, "the killing of unarmed Japanese was common".

Recent Australian atrocities, excluding Manus and Nauru:

Quote:
Allegations of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan 'being taken ...
https://www.theguardian.com/australia.../allegations-of-australian-war-crimes-in-afgha...
Jun 8, 2018 - The Turnbull government says allegations that members of Australia's elite special forces committed war crimes in Afghanistan are being taken ...
Allied war crimes during World War II - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II
Jump to Australia - Australia[edit]. According to historian Mark Johnston, "the killing of unarmed Japanese was common" and Australian command tried to ...
‎Canicattě massacre · ‎Laconia incident · ‎Operation Teardrop
Australian special forces allegedly committed war crimes in ... - SBS
https://www.sbs.com.au/.../australian-special-forces-allegedly-committed-war-crimes-i...
Jun 8, 2018 - Members of Australia's elite special forces have been accused of committing war crimes in Afghanistan amid weak leadership and a lack of ...
SAS soldiers committed alleged war crimes in Afghanistan: official report
https://www.smh.com.au › Politics › Federal › Afghanistan
Jun 7, 2018 - Some members of Australia's elite special forces allegedly committed war crimes in Afghanistan amid a “complete lack of accountability” from ...
Australian commandos accused of Afghan war crimes and 'disregard ...
https://www.scmp.com › News › Asia › Australasia
Jun 8, 2018 - Australian special forces have been accused of committing war crimes in Afghanistan in a secret defence report leaked on Friday that ...
ADF soldiers accused of war crimes in Afghanistan - News.com.au
https://www.news.com.au/.../australian...war-crimes.../10062f74e1cb128ab5b893cddd18...
Jun 9, 2018 - DEFENCE Minister Marise Payne has defended the work of special forces soldiers after disturbing claims of war crimes were made against ...
Anzacs behaving badly: Scott McIntyre and contested history
theconversation.com/anzacs-behaving-badly-scott-mcintyre-and-contested-history-4
0...
Apr 28, 2015 - Frederick George Fazey joined the Australian Imperial Force (AIF) in 1918, ... The Pacific theatre was a racialised war in which atrocities were ...
Army leaks and atrocities: Australian troops should get out of the ...
https://socialist-alliance.org/.../army-leaks-and-atrocities-australian-troops-s
hould-get-...
Jun 19, 2018 - Leaked reports of atrocities and misconduct point to troops in Afghanistan and Iraq being part of the problem, not the solution.
Australian war crimes | Red Flag
https://redflag.org.au/node/6391
Australian war crimes. Australian politics, International. Ben Hillier. 19 June 2018. Editor. How many civilians have Australian special forces killed in Afghanistan ...
Defence briefs The Hague on war crimes inquiry - The Australian
https://www.theaustralian.com.au › national-affairs › defence
Jun 21, 2018 - Australia has notified the International Criminal Court in The Hague that it is investigating possible war crimes committed by Australian troops in ...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #104 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:30pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:00pm:
The three stooges. Gnads, Valkie and Freediver engaged in a three-loser game of mental ping pong.

I denounce you all as cowards because you espouse military atrocities yet are too cowardly to join the military.

You are all lip service patriots playing pat-a-cake with each other while cheering and rejoicing in the death of innocent civilians.

Freediver's actions are particularly egregious as he tortures and kills marine animals for his enjoyment while fearing to face men and creatures that can defend themselves.

Gnads needs to remove his butt plug and shove it down his throat.

Please consider.

https://sanhtatow.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/consequences.jpg

Cheesy Cheesy CheesyUNFORGIVEN DOESN'T KNOW WHAT GOVERNMENTS ARE!
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #105 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:32pm
 
Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:20pm:
Gnads wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
You silly bugger that was directed at Un4given.


In that case
I unreservidly apologise and beg your forgiveness

I've had a long day
I put up a fence today 60 metres
Lots of holes through clay
Damn I'm sore.

Again apologies.

gOD, PLEASE DON'T LET ME GO OUT LIKE THAT!  Grin

"hONEY,.......... THE COWS ARE COMING HOME  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #106 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:39pm
 
Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 6:10pm:
Gnads wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 5:28pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 11:07am:
Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12th, 2018 at 9:26am:
If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM




I call you out as fraud .... as a human being.  Roll Eyes


Fair enough
Call me what you like, but at least I'm not a sock.

I'm as human as the next guy, I just believe that it's fight or be fodder.

Spinoza said the same thing: man in his natural state will tend toward the side of cruelty because he's living amongst the animals who have the advantage in speed and weapons.

Therefore the idea of living under some kind of a dominion comes into play... so that the common person could atleast sleep at night and in return his obligation was to live within moderation: i.e within the law. The people making up this dominion, however, have different obligations because they have taken on the role of man in his natural state.........

Unforgiven is full of shite in other words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 



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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #107 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 4:07pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:39pm:
Unforgiven is full of shite in other words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Denizen 'AnotherJourneyBy PoopChute' has collapsed looking like an empty sack after taking a dump.
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #108 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 10:42pm
 
Military = violence industry. "Heroism on command, senseless violence, all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/comedian-catherine-deveny-slamm...

Quote:
Comedian Catherine Deveny slammed over Anzac Day tweets
A MELBOURNE comedian and feminist who labelled Anzac Day “bogan Halloween” claims she has received rape threats.

Rohan Smith@ro_smith news.com.auAPRIL 25, 20181:22PM

A MELBOURNE-BASED comedian who tweeted that Anzac Day is “Bogan Halloween” and a celebration of Australia’s “fetishism of war and violence” has been slammed for her comments.

But like most pile-ons on social media, many took things way, way too far.

Catherine Deveny tweeted on Tuesday that “serve” is not the right word for our armed servicemen and women.

“Why do people in the armed forces use the word ‘serve’ to describe their work despite it being no more dangerous or prone to upheaval than many other jobs?” she wrote.

“It’s just a job and work. Throw the term ‘serve’ in the bin. It’s part of the fetishism of war and violence.”

Later, she wrote that it was a “hilarious notion” that our Diggers fought for our right to free speech and that “Australians who have worked in the violence industry have fought wars to suck up to the US and British”.

On Tuesday, a former soldier wrote to Deveny: “Catherine, I served my country, as a soldier, for 26 years. How many did you serve? Zero.”

The comedian responded: “You didn’t serve your country, you chose a job in the violence industry.”

...

“I abhor Anzac Day and can’t wait til it’s over. I am so delighted to hear the chorus increasing every year saying ‘Anzac Day is bullshit. It’s a Trojan horse for ­racism, sexism, toxic masculinity, violence, homophobia and discrimination’.

“ANZAC Day is f***ing disgusting and should have gone in the bin decades ago. As it gets closer my head feels tighter and tighter and I feel more and more nauseous. I blame the collective cognitive dissonance seeping in.”

She finished with a third tweet late on Tuesday night: “ANZAC Day. It’s Bogan Halloween.”

Deveny, who was sacked as a columnist by Fairfax after tweeting that she “hopes Bindi Irwin gets laid” at the 2010 Logies, has been here before. She is an outspoken critic of Anzac Day and previously wrote that she expects the “yearly hate explosion over my Anzac Day opinions”.

“My views, that Anzac Day does not reflect the inclusiveness of all those affected by war, nor our more sophisticated understanding of the true machinations and motivations behind war are neither rare, radical or new.”


In recent years, she wrote: “Anzac Day. A celebration of a society so f***ed up it saw no other option than to go to war. Kill, rape and invade. Then glorify it.”

The response is almost always the same. Some support her, many are disappointed.

“It must be that time of the year again,” Guy McRedmond wrote on Twitter.

“When you try to convince yourself that you are somehow relevant by tweeting more uneducated rubbish about ANZAC Day and serving members of the ADF. It’s easy to post crap to get a reaction. Certainly a lot easier than serving one’s country.”

Another wrote that Deveny has “the right to free speech but this is vulgar. Would you say that to the face of an elderly soldier?”

Journalist Tom Steinfort tweeted simply: “Catherine Deveny. Yawn. Don’t give her the attention she craves.”

3AW host Tom Elliot said he was “upset” by Deveny’s comments.

“Bloody hell, she is an absolute nutcase,” he said. “This idea that fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan where you could be killed at any time is riduclous. What on earth would Catherine Deveny, a left-wing, alleged, not very funny comedian know about such a thing?”

The Australian Defence Association told The Australian Deveny was being “deliberately provocative”.

“(She) ignores that serving in our Defence Force means accepting the obligation to ‘work’ in an unlimited liability occupation,” the Association said. “That’s why it’s serving, not just working ... “Moreover, Australia has a Defence Force, not ‘armed forces’.”

But others responded with threats of rape and violence and ruined any chance for sensible debate.

Catherine Deveny is no stranger to backlash over her Anzac Day tweets.

After a series of tweets in the lead up to Anzac Day this year, Deveny wrote that Anzac “trolls” are “ignorant and uneducated and prove my point better than I ever could ... Show Some Respect = Shut The bugger Up Or I’ll Threaten To Rape You”.

She’s not the first Australian with a profile to speak out against Anzac Day. Former SBS presenter Scott McIntyre was sacked in 2015 after referring to Australians marking Anzac Day as “poorly-read, largely white, nationalist drinkers and gamblers”.

The Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull responded on Twitter, saying it is “difficult to think of more offensive or inappropriate comments” and that the “despicable remarks deserve to be condemned”.

That didn’t stop him from posting a bunch more tweets on the subject in 2016.

Scott McIntyre

@mcintinhos
Heroism on command, senseless violence, all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism.

10:53 AM - Apr 25, 2016

Yassmin Abdel-Magied sparked a major backlast last year when she tweeted, “Lest We Forget (Manus, Nauru, Syria, Palestine).”

Last week, she doubled down on those comments ...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #109 - Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:01pm
 
This mural tells it all.

...
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #110 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 7:10pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:01pm:


So that's what happened to you🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤?

Now I understand un4, why you have so much trouble with common sense

There isn't anything between your ears.

🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #111 - Aug 14th, 2018 at 7:13pm
 
Anyone who imagines war is glamorous has never experienced it......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #112 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 12:28pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 11:01pm:

Fair Call!

Where does it come from?
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #113 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 12:33pm
 
The comedian responded: “You didn’t serve your country, you chose a job in the violence industry.”


It's a quote that will stand the test of time!

Yet, at the same time: she's done nothing of any use to anyone but whinge about how bored she is of the privileged status these brave men afforded her!

She's not much of a comedian and what she said was not even pedestrian!

The things we do for a dollar ay  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #114 - Aug 15th, 2018 at 12:36pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 4:07pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 13th, 2018 at 3:39pm:
Unforgiven is full of shite in other words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Denizen 'AnotherJourneyBy PoopChute' has collapsed looking like an empty sack after taking a dump.

Cathy made money from her comments that were sub-standard!

She will have to live with them as her meal ticket and will be afforded no status because of them!

The facts are men are sent to war and women aren't: SHE DESERVES TO BE HOUNDED FOR SPEAKING FROM HER PRIVELEGED PULPIT BOUGHT WITH THE BLOOD OF SENTENCED MEN!
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