Australian Politics Forum - Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic

Unforgiven

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #75 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 1:02pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 12:59pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 12:57pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 12:52pm:

rhino wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 12:44pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 12:37pm:

And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.

Pretty much what the whole board is like now, rational, semi intelligent debate is impossible. You shouldnt be surprised.

Of course. FD started it. He knows that.

Freediver is a bulletin board pervert. He perverts and diverts arguments towards the direction his master's command.

Freediver is a paid shill and should precede all his postings with the confession of who pays his slimebag salary.

Ask him if he likes telling fibs. He never answers that one.

He probably can't determine that because fibbing comes so natural to Freediver.

What sort of person derives enjoyment from torturing and butchering marine life?

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92202 Gender:	Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Reply #76 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 1:03pm Do prawns feel pain?
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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Reply #77 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 1:09pm Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 1:03pm: Do prawns feel pain? Does Freediver fart and urinate in the sea? Do Freedivers feel pain when karma strikes and a shark's jaws close around them? Or, are they exhilarated by the pain and achieve orgasm from their impending death?
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Unforgiven

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #78 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 1:11pm

The truth begins to emerge despite Freediver's efforts to pervert the arguments.

"A soldier is an amoral agent to those nationalistic objectives, however conceived. A career soldier doesn't care about right and wrong, only about national obedience. Otherwise they would be a poor soldier and a good human being."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:

It is never heroic to suspend individual moral responsibility Nation States can have myriad aims and ambitions. They can be controlled by charisnatic dictators, oligarchs, hegemony, democracy, capitalist systems, systems of PR etc. They could be controlled by any ambition, political objective or motivation for power or resource. A soldier is an amoral agent to those nationalistic objectives, however conceived. A career soldier doesn't care about right and wrong, only about national obedience. Otherwise they would be a poor soldier and a good human being.

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Unforgiven

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #79 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 2:25pm

I would love to see Freediver and his ilk volunteer for military service either in the Australian military or the military of Freediver's paymasters.

So far Freediver's history only includes killing harmless defenseless creatures. It would be interesting to see how Freediver conducts himself against opponents that can attack him with equal force, or defend themselves with equal force.

It is disgraceful that many people call anyone in military uniform a hero. It devalues the honor of true heroes.

You cannot be a hero just by wearing a military uniform.

"And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:

No profession is heroic by its own accord No value can be determined by an action. Many guys went to Vietnam believing the lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Were they heros? Some of them, but not because they were soldiers. Soldier X was a hero because he risked his life to save his maimed buddy out of compassion. But what if he did it because he wanted the fame of being a hero-then he's not a hero. What if he did it because he had an affair with the guy's wife and he knows the mistress/adulteress will out him if his buddy dies? Then it was selfish and not heroic. Action determines nothing, only intent can tell us something like that.

And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do. We told a bunch of lies, broke into someone's house, killed a bunch of their kids, and then moved in pretending it was our house. That's not a hero, that's an opportunist at best, and duplicitous scum at worst. Some are heros, most are common. Just like any job. Bringing value to your world is what matters, sometimes soldiers do that, but most of the time, most of them perpetuate only the worst qualities a human being has to offer this world. Even if they simply just go and do their job-if its an evil war, there is nothing impressive about being a soldier in it. It is what it is, and lying to each other calling it 'liberation' just adds insult to the injury. Liberation would be if some group pushed us out of Iraq, giving the home back to its owner-you know, like in WWII we and the Russians and others liberated various parts of Europe from German occupation. America is in North America. Iraq is part of ASIA, ie were not even in the same continent so its an occupation, not a liberation. Further, it was also America's fault that Hussien murdered 50,000 Iraqis. That was Bush Sr. Who said we'd back them if they rose up-but we never showed up, so they died.... Ya, America is so great, so heroic.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92202 Gender:	Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Reply #80 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 2:54pm FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do. Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist. Maybe he could join the army instead.
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Unforgiven

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #81 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:01pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 2:54pm:

FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.

Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist.

Maybe he could join the army instead.

Freediver couldn't do the drive alone. He's already perverted himself and he would need another victim to pervert.

I would pay Freediver's membership fees if he was joining the army of one-legged men due to having performed a heroic act to save Arabic babies being bashed to death by psychopathic soldiers and losing a limb.

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TheFunPolice

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #82 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:10pm

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 2:25pm:

I would love to see Freediver and his ilk volunteer for military service either in the Australian military or the military of Freediver's paymasters.

So far Freediver's history only includes killing harmless defenseless creatures. It would be interesting to see how Freediver conducts himself against opponents that can attack him with equal force, or defend themselves with equal force.

It is disgraceful that many people call anyone in military uniform a hero. It devalues the honor of true heroes.

You cannot be a hero just by wearing a military uniform.

"And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do."

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:

No profession is heroic by its own accord No value can be determined by an action. Many guys went to Vietnam believing the lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Were they heros? Some of them, but not because they were soldiers. Soldier X was a hero because he risked his life to save his maimed buddy out of compassion. But what if he did it because he wanted the fame of being a hero-then he's not a hero. What if he did it because he had an affair with the guy's wife and he knows the mistress/adulteress will out him if his buddy dies? Then it was selfish and not heroic. Action determines nothing, only intent can tell us something like that.

And lastly-most wars are not just. Look at us in Iraq. If those soldiers are heros because one thinks thats a good war, then they must also call any burgler or robber a 'hero'. Because in Iraq, that's what we did/do. We told a bunch of lies, broke into someone's house, killed a bunch of their kids, and then moved in pretending it was our house. That's not a hero, that's an opportunist at best, and duplicitous scum at worst. Some are heros, most are common. Just like any job. Bringing value to your world is what matters, sometimes soldiers do that, but most of the time, most of them perpetuate only the worst qualities a human being has to offer this world. Even if they simply just go and do their job-if its an evil war, there is nothing impressive about being a soldier in it. It is what it is, and lying to each other calling it 'liberation' just adds insult to the injury. Liberation would be if some group pushed us out of Iraq, giving the home back to its owner-you know, like in WWII we and the Russians and others liberated various parts of Europe from German occupation. America is in North America. Iraq is part of ASIA, ie were not even in the same continent so its an occupation, not a liberation. Further, it was also America's fault that Hussien murdered 50,000 Iraqis. That was Bush Sr. Who said we'd back them if they rose up-but we never showed up, so they died.... Ya, America is so great, so heroic.

Have you ever heard of sharks?

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TheFunPolice

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #83 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:11pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 2:54pm:

FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.

Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist.

Maybe he could join the army instead.

Unforgiven hasn't heard of sharks so watch your step missy!

Cheesy

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #84 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:19pm

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:01pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 2:54pm:

FD's still got to get up to Ayers Rock. He'd go if it wasn't for all the boring driving he'd have to do.

Not now, though. The Boongs won't let him climb it because they're racist.

Maybe he could join the army instead.

Freediver couldn't do the drive alone. He's already perverted himself and he would need another victim to pervert.

I would pay Freediver's membership fees if he was joining the army of one-legged men due to having performed a heroic act to save Arabic babies being bashed to death by psychopathic soldiers and losing a limb.

Me too, Forgiven. Let's put FD's membership fees into Ozpolitic donations. FD can report back on how many Muslim and apologist children he's saved.

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Valkie

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #85 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:36pm

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 11:07am:

Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 9:26am:

If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM

The troll calls me out...

On his computer of course, he would be far too cowardly in real life to even look at me.

Have you ever spoken out against a man?
Not one of your pooftah partners, but a real live man who woukd deck you?

Of course not
You are a cowardly troll
Big on words on a computer, but never in real life.

Sad little troll
Failure in real life
Failure in forums
Possibly, probably not even real
Just another sock

Call me out.......I fart in your general direction, ha ha ha ha ha ha

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Unforgiven

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #86 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:45pm

Valkie, you are a coward because if you believed everything you write you would already be in the military killing people.

You are a disgusting, cowardly, example of inhuman waste. I have flushed things with more morals than Valkie. I wish you did have the guts to join the military and volunteer for conflicts.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:

Soldiers (Typically) Are Scum Soldiers: Young men and women hired to potentially throw their lives away and kill wantonly in the name of psychopathic, money-lusting politicians who don't even know their names or stories and couldn't care less anyway. Has some good come from war? Yes. A small sum. And there probably are some soldiers who possess genuine humanity, but look at the situation: you voluntarily sign up for several weeks of survival training and lessons on how to shoot, stab, bludgeon, and bomb people to death with the intention of doing this for a living. That's hardly heroic, and I would never bestow the title of "hero" to anyone who would choose this for themselves.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 3:36pm:

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 11:07am:

Valkie, your mouth is bigger than your courage. You are a lip service patriot.

If you really believed what you posted below you would have joined the military when your beliefs became evident to you and you would have been joyfully killing people.

Valkie I call you out as a fraud against humanity.

Valkie wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 9:26am:

If soldiers didn't kill people

The idiots who argue that killing does not make hero's wouldn't be here

They would be grovelling under the rule of people who look at cowards and laugh.

The only way to fight despots is to fight them

Not talk to them, not call them stupid made up names, not sending limp wristed lisping pansies to try and shame them into obedieance.

And in war, people will be killed.
Sometimes innocent people.
How many soldiers died in Hiroshema?
How many innocent people?

In the heat of battle, men no longer see others as people
They are trained to kill
They become killing machines.

They throw themselves at almost certain death.

These men are all heros

For more than any cowardly pansy sitting in a nice safe country.

How dare these cowards even dare to dispute the heroics of these men?
How dare these pansy cowardly slugs dare to cast aspersions on any soldier?

They are not worthy to lick the mud off the feet of a hero.

SCUM

The troll calls me out...

On his computer of course, he would be far too cowardly in real life to even look at me.

Have you ever spoken out against a man?
Not one of your pooftah partners, but a real live man who woukd deck you?

Of course not
You are a cowardly troll
Big on words on a computer, but never in real life.

Sad little troll
Failure in real life
Failure in forums
Possibly, probably not even real
Just another sock

Call me out.......I fart in your general direction, ha ha ha ha ha ha

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“I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours” Bob Dylan

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Unforgiven Gold Member Offline I have sinned Posts: 8879 Gender:	Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic Reply #87 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 4:15pm Valkie has left for the local military recruitment office? Fat chance. They take psychopaths, but not mentally crippled psychopaths.
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freediver

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #88 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 4:40pm

Unforgiven wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 12:47pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 12:37pm:

And here we see Unforgiven himself running away from rational enquiry.

You are welcome to give your own 'unperverted' version of your argument, but you cannot, can you? All you can do is lash out with childish personal insults, while whining about being misunderstood.

Freediver is perverting the string as he always does.

Exposing Freediver's enjoyment of killing and torturing marine life is fair argument because it reflects Freediver's perverted state of mind.

In regard to the quote below, soldiers are disposable and are fired from their jobs when they have been so ruthless that there is no-one left to kill.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-soldiers-heroic

Quote:

A Job is a Job Soldiers are like paper towels. They just sit there maintaining a minimal value until something spills. Milk on the counter top, my paper towel is retrieved to do what it's supposed to do. When it serves its purpose, another towel takes its place on "stand-by", so to speak.

Lot's of soldiers who are designated "heroic" say things like "I just did what I had to do". That's not humility; that's the absolute truth. They are put into situations that decay into impossible, then they do what they have to do. The dead ones are dead, and the survivors get "honor", which cannot even be redeemed for a sandwich.

Suckers one and all.

Are you openly running away from your own words now? Why is asking abut your own thread title "perverting the string"?

The distinction you appear to be making is that in order to be considered a hero by you, you require people to allow innocents to be slaughtered so they can find a non-violent solution, if one exists, and avoid getting their hands dirty or putting themselves in the line of fire. Heroism to you means nothing more than putting yourself at risk of public criticism. This seems consistent with your stance as a Muslim apologist, where support from Muslims for the destruction of liberal democracy and all sorts of abuses comes secondary to not publicly criticising them. While we watch so many people fall victim to rape and pillage, you focus your efforts on protecting Muslims from rational enquiry.

Is this a fair summary of your argument?

So basically, conventional soldiers cannot be heroes, because there is no way of proving that the soldiers they are fighting would kill anyone, but Thomson is a hero because he let all those My Lai villagers get slaughtered while he filled out the appropriate paperwork.

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Unforgiven

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Re: Soldiers killing people cannot be heroic
Reply #89 - Aug 12^th, 2018 at 5:11pm

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2018 at 4:40pm:

Are you openly running away from your own words now? Why is asking abut your own thread title "perverting the string"?

Because it is FreeDiver's usual strategy for perverting discussions by obfuscation and diversion to issues of Freediver's choice.

Freediver's lack of humanity and morals is evidenced by his own 'sport' of killing marine creatures for enjoyment.

Freediver needs to demonstrate to his paymasters that he is earning his money.

Here is a contrary opinion to Freediver from somebody Freediver understands.

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